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Thread: US trade group asks VP Pence to ‘seriously consider’ invoking 25th Amendment to remove Trump

  1. #1

    Exclamation US trade group asks VP Pence to ‘seriously consider’ invoking 25th Amendment to remove Trump

    Not clear yet if this is part of same broader "coup" against Trump being claimed by MAGA supporters or an independent effort:

    U.S. trade group asks VP Pence to ‘seriously consider’ invoking 25th Amendment to remove Trump

    Wed, Jan 6 2021 8:03 PM EST
    Jordan Novet@jordannovet


    • A sharply worded statement from the head of the National Association of Manufacturers shows opposition to clashes that interrupted proceedings to accept Joe Biden as the next U.S. president.
    • The head of the group, Jay Timmons, was once executive director of the National Republican Senatorial Committee.

    cnbc.com/2021/01/06/national-association-of-manufacturers-calls-dc-protests-sedition.html



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  3. #2
    Had not expected this:

    Top Republican asks Pence to invoke 25th Amendment...

    The statement came as the Business Roundtable and leaders such as Citi CEO Michael Corbat and Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff condemned the acts.

    Jay Timmons, the group’s president and CEO and a former executive director of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, pointed to the millions of people in manufacturing jobs who are working to fight the coronavirus pandemic, which brought on an economic recession.
    Last year the group gave an award to Trump’s daughter Ivanka Trump for “extraordinary support” of manufacturing in America.




    This is less surprising:


    Democratic lawmakers call for Pence to invoke 25th Amendment, remove Trump from office

    By Joseph Choi - 01/06/21 05:01 PM EST

    Democratic lawmakers called on Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment on Wednesday and remove President Trump from office, blaming the president for inciting the rioters that violently breached the Capitol building.
    "Dear @VP @mike_Pence: You need to start the 25th Amendment. @realDonaldTrump is detached from reality," wrote Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.)
    Dear @VP @mike_Pence: You need to start the 25th Amendment. @realDonaldTrump is detached from reality. https://t.co/FkGBte8ZxB
    — Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) January 6, 2021

    Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.) tweeted, "Donald J. Trump should immediately be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate as soon as Congress reconvenes. This is dangerous & unacceptable."

    Donald J. Trump should immediately be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate as soon as Congress reconvenes.

    This is dangerous & unacceptable.
    — Ayanna Pressley (@AyannaPressley) January 6, 2021


    Rep. David Cicilline (D-R.I.) wrote: "This is outrageous, and the president caused it. We should impeach and convict him tomorrow."
    This is outrageous, and the president caused it. We should impeach and convict him tomorrow.
    — David Cicilline (@davidcicilline) January 6, 2021
    Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) appeared to agree, sharing on Twitter that she was drawing up articles on impeachment.
    "Donald J. Trump should be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate," wrote Omar. "We can’t allow him to remain in office, it’s a matter of preserving our Republic and we need to fulfill our oath."
    I am drawing up Articles of Impeachment.

    Donald J. Trump should be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate.

    We can’t allow him to remain in office, it’s a matter of preserving our Republic and we need to fulfill our oath.
    — Ilhan Omar (@IlhanMN) January 6, 2021
    Progressive Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) simply tweeted out, "Impeach," after the Capitol was secured by authorities.
    Impeach.
    — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) January 7, 2021

    In a statement, Rep. Jennifer Wexton (D-Va.) similarly called for Trump’s removal from office, calling the rioters “domestic terrorists.”
    “The President has been encouraging these domestic terrorists since before the election,” said Wexton. “He could have stopped them at any moment, but instead he whipped them into a frenzy and sicced them on the Capitol.”
    “The Cabinet must remove him today or the House must impeach.”
    The 25th Amendment states:
    “Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.”

    https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...endment-remove

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Had not expected this:

    Top Republican asks Pence to invoke 25th Amendment...

    The statement came as the Business Roundtable and leaders such as Citi CEO Michael Corbat and Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff condemned the acts.

    Jay Timmons, the group’s president and CEO and a former executive director of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, pointed to the millions of people in manufacturing jobs who are working to fight the coronavirus pandemic, which brought on an economic recession.
    Last year the group gave an award to Trump’s daughter Ivanka Trump for “extraordinary support” of manufacturing in America.




    This is less surprising:


    Democratic lawmakers call for Pence to invoke 25th Amendment, remove Trump from office

    By Joseph Choi - 01/06/21 05:01 PM EST

    Democratic lawmakers called on Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment on Wednesday and remove President Trump from office, blaming the president for inciting the rioters that violently breached the Capitol building.
    "Dear @VP @mike_Pence: You need to start the 25th Amendment. @realDonaldTrump is detached from reality," wrote Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.)
    Dear @VP @mike_Pence: You need to start the 25th Amendment. @realDonaldTrump is detached from reality. https://t.co/FkGBte8ZxB
    — Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) January 6, 2021

    Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.) tweeted, "Donald J. Trump should immediately be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate as soon as Congress reconvenes. This is dangerous & unacceptable."

    Donald J. Trump should immediately be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate as soon as Congress reconvenes.

    This is dangerous & unacceptable.
    — Ayanna Pressley (@AyannaPressley) January 6, 2021


    Rep. David Cicilline (D-R.I.) wrote: "This is outrageous, and the president caused it. We should impeach and convict him tomorrow."
    This is outrageous, and the president caused it. We should impeach and convict him tomorrow.
    — David Cicilline (@davidcicilline) January 6, 2021
    Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) appeared to agree, sharing on Twitter that she was drawing up articles on impeachment.
    "Donald J. Trump should be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate," wrote Omar. "We can’t allow him to remain in office, it’s a matter of preserving our Republic and we need to fulfill our oath."
    I am drawing up Articles of Impeachment.

    Donald J. Trump should be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate.

    We can’t allow him to remain in office, it’s a matter of preserving our Republic and we need to fulfill our oath.
    — Ilhan Omar (@IlhanMN) January 6, 2021
    Progressive Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) simply tweeted out, "Impeach," after the Capitol was secured by authorities.
    Impeach.
    — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) January 7, 2021

    In a statement, Rep. Jennifer Wexton (D-Va.) similarly called for Trump’s removal from office, calling the rioters “domestic terrorists.”
    “The President has been encouraging these domestic terrorists since before the election,” said Wexton. “He could have stopped them at any moment, but instead he whipped them into a frenzy and sicced them on the Capitol.”
    “The Cabinet must remove him today or the House must impeach.”
    The 25th Amendment states:
    “Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.”

    https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...endment-remove

    Both Citi and Salesforce are active Partners in the World Economic Forum (Klaus Schwab) "The Great Reset"


    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-Great-Reset


    https://www.weforum.org/partners#S
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  5. #4
    Maybe if starts any more trouble on his way out they may have to. If he just hides in the white house ranting for the next 2 weeks then why bother.

  6. #5
    Pence is not talking to Trump at all.

    The cabinet including Pence is ready to invoke the 25th for real if Trump does anything irregular whatsoever.

    This is a fact.

    Trump will be led out in handcuffs under the point of a gun if necessary.

  7. #6
    Unfortunately, it's not that easy. Even if Pence and a majority of the cabinet determine to remove Trump, he can contest it and then the determination is made by a 2/3 vote of both houses of Congress. I can't see all that happening in the next 13 days unless Trump does something really crazy, which is a distinct possibility.

    Cross your fingers, pray, or do whatever gets you through the night. There's an unhinged narcissist in the White House.

    EDIT: Shame on me. If Trump contests the removal, then Pence and a majority of the cabinet can reaffirm his inability to perform his duties, in which case Pence continues to discharge the power of the presidency unless Congress determines Trump is able.
    Last edited by Sonny Tufts; 01-07-2021 at 08:35 AM.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  8. #7
    That seems really unnecessary since he's leaving in 13 days.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  9. #8
    I hope they keep escalating.

    The system is and has been broken for most of my life.

    Let it burn, let them burn their own system.



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  11. #9
    What should we invoke over the blatant election fraud?
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    That seems really unnecessary since he's leaving in 13 days.
    Trump could go "scorched Earth".

    Declassify a ton of $#@!.

    Try to end the Empire.

    Pardon whistleblowers etc.

    Lets be honest, theyre scared.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Trump could go "scorched Earth".

    Declassify a ton of $#@!.

    Try to end the Empire.

    Pardon whistleblowers etc.

    Lets be honest, theyre scared.
    That would be nice, but I'm not sure if Trump would go that far. He's currently distancing himself from the protesters, but on the other hand, scorched earth is definitely something not out of his realm.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Havnes View Post
    That would be nice, but I'm not sure if Trump would go that far. He's currently distancing himself from the protesters, but on the other hand, scorched earth is definitely something not out of his realm.
    It has to be put out there, it has to reach him that he still has this power.

    Which imo is a big reason why they are trying to impeach.

    They dont know what he might do.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Trump could go "scorched Earth".

    Declassify a ton of $#@!.

    Try to end the Empire.

    Pardon whistleblowers etc.

    Lets be honest, theyre scared.
    Everybody on this site wants Trump to do those things, but I don't think Trump has the gumption to do any of it. It would be interesting to see what spin and mental gymnastics Democrats would use.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Cross your fingers, pray, or do whatever gets you through the night. There's an unhinged narcissist in the White House.
    *yawn* When has this not been the case?

    The only differences I can see are that the present narcissist is only somewhat more unhinged and isn't as good at hiding it.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 01-07-2021 at 01:51 PM. Reason: is --> are


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Pence is not talking to Trump at all.

    The cabinet including Pence is ready to invoke the 25th for real if Trump does anything irregular whatsoever.

    This is a fact.

    Trump will be led out in handcuffs under the point of a gun if necessary.
    If you're rooting for literal civil war, then you're rooting for this outcome.

    People are wound up and no one is even bothering to diffuse the situation.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    If you're rooting for literal civil war, then you're rooting for this outcome.

    People are wound up and no one is even bothering to diffuse the situation.
    What outcome do you see by "defusing the situation"?

    Less governance?
    More liberty"
    Sound money?
    More freedom?



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  20. #17
    pence isnt going to participate in any activities aimed at undermining his party . its like listening to alex jones around here .

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    What outcome do you see by "defusing the situation"?

    Less governance?
    More liberty"
    Sound money?
    More freedom?
    Diffusing the situation would essentially be talking people out of violence or violent thoughts. You don't do that by forcibly removing the President from office. Particularly a couple of weeks before he is set to leave said office.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    If you're rooting for literal civil war, then you're rooting for this outcome.

    People are wound up and no one is even bothering to diffuse the situation.
    I am rooting for peaceful separation, before it becomes "hot" civil war, which is where this all heading.
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    If you're rooting for literal civil war, then you're rooting for this outcome.

    People are wound up and no one is even bothering to diffuse the situation.
    Not rooting for anything. Just a statement of fact.
    Nobody is going to help him. Nobody.

  24. #21
    Not sure how the media is reporting that half the Cabinet might resign and the 25th being considered. If half resigns, can they still do the 25th?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I am rooting for peaceful separation, before it becomes "hot" civil war, which is where this all heading.
    Have to disagree. How can a "civil war" take place between supporters of Trump whose heroes are honest Abe Lincoln and MLK. Dems/Liberals for the most part share same heroes.
    There have to be two cohesive, contrasting point of views for any meaningful distinction let alone a "civil war". Hard to tell two sides apart on vast majority of issues, differences only in style and slogans and 'follow the money" funding pockets are pretty much same. Rotation of PR officers to keep public entertained.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Have to disagree. How can a "civil war" take place between supporters of Trump whose heroes are honest Abe Lincoln and MLK. Dems/Liberals for the most part share same heroes.
    There have to too cohesive, contrasting point of views for any meaningful distinction let alone a "civil war". Hard to tell two sides apart on vast majority of issues, differences only in style and slogans and 'follow the money" funding pockets are pretty much same.
    The idea that it's "Trump supporters" vs everybody else is silly.

    Trying to steer the discussion isn't likely to work.

    Here, I'll post a pretty picture for you;
    Study it carefully and pay attention, the most contentious areas will be the counties with red/blue boundaries.


  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by gaazn View Post
    Not sure how the media is reporting that half the Cabinet might resign and the 25th being considered. If half resigns, can they still do the 25th?
    The resignations have started. Elaine Chao is leaving.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous



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  29. #25
    Need a more dynamic map of counties that stayed red for last 3 elections and stayed blue for last three elections.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    The idea that it's "Trump supporters" vs everybody else is silly.

    Trying to steer the discussion isn't likely to work.

    Here, I'll post a pretty picture for you;
    Study it carefully and pay attention, the most contentious areas will be the counties with red/blue boundaries.

    Main point still stands:

    "There have to be two cohesive, contrasting point of views for any meaningful distinction let alone a "civil war". Hard to tell two sides apart on vast majority of issues, differences only in style and slogans and 'follow the money" funding pockets are pretty much same. Rotation of PR officers to keep public entertained."

    Assuming you're suggesting "civil war" between Republicans and Democrats? Please correct if reading it wrong.

    "Trump supporters" was mentioned in the context of this discussion where there are Republicans on both sides. Some senior Trump White House advisors/family memebers/anti-nepotism activists were supposdely registered Democrats.


    "Top Republican of US trade group asks VP Pence to ‘seriously consider’ invoking 25th Amendment to remove Trump"

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Have to disagree. How can a "civil war" take place between supporters of Trump whose heroes are honest Abe Lincoln and MLK. Dems/Liberals for the most part share same heroes.
    There have to be two cohesive, contrasting point of views for any meaningful distinction let alone a "civil war". Hard to tell two sides apart on vast majority of issues, differences only in style and slogans and 'follow the money" funding pockets are pretty much same. Rotation of PR officers to keep public entertained.
    On one side: a disorganized mob of "Heritage Americans" who have a dim grasp of history and economics but recognize that there is something worth saving. For the life of them they cannot comprehend how, or muster the will to save western civilization and with it, their own lives.

    On the other side: a much better organized mob of Bolsheviks, Marxists and Jacobins who have a burning and intense hatred of the Heritage crowd and want them dead, in very real terms. Their understanding of history is much better, insofar as it has anything to do with them, which is why they working feverishly to erase it.
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  32. #28
    Calls, resignations are growing by the hour:


    Federal prosecutor doesn't rule out charging Trump for inciting riot...

    MD Gov: 'Authorization' to Send Reinforcements Repeatedly Denied...

    Pelosi, Schumer call for immediate removal from office...

    John Kelly Pushes 25th Amendment...

    Republicans weigh drastic options...

    Transportation Secretary Chao -- McConnell's wife -- resigning...


    White House aides consider resignations, removal options as Trump rages against perceived betrayals...

    'Total monster'...

    BARR: He betrayed office...

    'I can't stay here.' Mulvaney walks...






    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    On one side: a disorganized mob of "Heritage Americans" who have a dim grasp of history and economics but recognize that there is something worth saving. For the life of them they cannot comprehend how, or muster the will to save western civilization and with it, their own lives.

    On the other side: a much better organized mob of Bolsheviks, Marxists and Jacobins who have a burning and intense hatred of the Heritage crowd and want them dead, in very real terms. Their understanding of history is much better, insofar as it has anything to do with them, which is why they working feverishly to erase it.
    That would be an interesting and separate debate but what seems unclear in present context is who will be on which side and on what basis exactly. If "heritage Americans" will be on one side and rest on the other, then current alignments do not make logical sense with a former reality TV star who has funded mostly progressives/liberals in both parties and has championed pro-diversity policies, BLM, social justice, and called Pat Buchanan "hitler" for not championing diversity.
    In bigger scheme, political DC changes appear to be direct product of decades old global interventions that same groups have supported all along. Protesting after seeing outcome of past bad choices in a confused way desperately looking for a savior in all the wrong places appears to be the situation to the untrained eye.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Not rooting for anything. Just a statement of fact.
    Nobody is going to help him. Nobody.
    Nobody within the federal government, sure. But plenty of people outside of it will indeed help him.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I am rooting for peaceful separation, before it becomes "hot" civil war, which is where this all heading.
    Same here, but how likely is it to be peaceful?

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