PATRIOTS Have stormed capitol building - Masses Breached Barriers

[RedLightning]

https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1346918582832168964

Now he's called the National Guard.

[BSWPaulsen]

Without positive principles of what a right government would look like for the America they want, to replace this wrong one (which this crowd obviously doesn't have), then nothing remotely good could come of what they're doing.

And that's even if we accept the dubious premise that violence is the proper means to the needed reforms.

Your assertion that "nothing remotely good could come of what they're doing" is unsound. If those people achieve their aims, then something remotely good does come of what they are doing. You have likely forgotten that human action is performed for human benefit. You might not benefit, but I have come to the conclusion that whatever disadvantages you must be seriously considered as a good thing.

The concept of there being a "proper means to needed reforms" is similarly dependent on a list of premises that are only valid when they are all fulfilled. Absent the fulfillment of those premises, revolutions happen. Also, it is worth pointing out that violence has the capacity to be more effective than your "proper means", and that explains why humans retain a preference for it.

[Brian4Liberty]

Now we have accusations of Antifa false flag infiltrators...

[wizardwatson]

https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1346918582832168964

Now he's called the National Guard.

He only called out the NG because they aren't wearing masks, and Trump's worried about his Warp Speed legacy.

[Invisible Man]

Your assertion that "nothing remotely good could come of what they're doing" is unsound. If those people achieve their aims, then something remotely good does come of what they are doing. You have likely forgotten that human action is performed for human benefit. You might not benefit, but I have come to the conclusion that whatever disadvantages you must be seriously considered as a good thing.

The concept of there being a "proper means to needed reforms" is similarly dependent on a list of premises that are only valid when they are all fulfilled. Absent the fulfillment of those premises, revolutions happen. Also, it is worth pointing out that violence has the capacity to be more effective than your "proper means", and that explains why humans retain a preference for it.

I'm not talking about what is advantageous to me or any other individual.

Right and wrong, good and bad, are not functions of what benefits and harms result to the winners and losers. If I steal something, the fact that I benefit from the act doesn't make it good, and what makes it bad goes deeper than the fact that another person suffers loss.

Look to other violent revolutions and consider the outcomes. The record is not good even when they are motivated by good causes. Much less so when they are motivated by bad ones. And again, by outcomes, I don't just mean material benefits and losses, but also the wickedness of the regimes that are set up in place of the old ones.

[johnwk]

What are a freedom loving people to do?

What are our detractors [those who embrace voter fraud] to expect when the government of a freedom loving people become their oppressors, ignore the country’s written Constitution, pass laws in violation of that Constitution, and engage in activities under color of law which threaten the common defense and general welfare of their country? What are the people to do?



The fact is, there are no “conspiracy theories” as constantly reported by our Fifth Column media and Yellow Journalists about the election. There are specific charges made of massive voter fraud, state election laws altered in violation of the law, and a federal judiciary that has refused to hear such complaints and review supportive evidence in spite of our Constitution placing original jurisdiction of such matters in the hands of our United States Supreme Court. Where, I ask, are the people to turn to resolve the injustices claimed?



The truth is, we were amply warned about submitting to such tyranny!



“When a free people submit to oppressive acts, passed in violation of their constitution, for a single day, they have thrown down the palladium of their liberty. Submit to despotism for an hour and you concede the principle. John Adams said, in 1775, Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud. It is the only thing a people determined to be free can do. Republics have often failed, and have been succeeded by the most revolting despotisms; and always it was the voice of timidity, cowardice, or false leaders counseling submission, that led to the final downfall of freedom. It was the cowardice and treachery of the Senate of Rome that allowed the usurper to gain power, inch by inch, to overthrow the Republic. The history of the downfall of Republics is the same in all ages. The first inch that is yielded to despotism __ the first blow, dealt at the Constitution, that is not resisted is the beginning of the end of the nation’s ruin.” ___ THE OLD GUARD, A MONTHLY JOURNAL DEVOTED TO THE PRINCIPLES OF 1776 AND 1787.


JWK



" I believe that there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." ___ Madison Elliot`s Debates, vol. III, page 87

[BSWPaulsen]

I'm not talking about what is advantageous to me or any other individual.

Right and wrong, good and bad, are not functions of what benefits and harms result to the winners and losers. If I steal something, the fact that I benefit from the act doesn't make it good, and what makes it bad goes deeper than the fact that another person suffers loss.

Utterly irrelevant. This is the sort of examining things on a microscopic scale that guarantees you will suffer analysis paralysis when examining collective actions taken by humanity. If you want to be ineffectual, then have at it.

Look to other violent revolutions and consider the outcomes. The record is not good even when they are motivated by good causes. Much less so when they are motivated by bad ones.

The American Revolution was violent and Americans were very content with how it played out. The American people with an eye toward a second revolution have considered the possible outcomes. They will sacrifice their security, as they are doing by storming the Capital, in the pursuance of their liberty.

[pcosmar]

Now we have accusations of Antifa false flag infiltrators...

Or Fed Provocateurs..

Does not take much to steer an Angry Mob..

And the Massive Anger is undeniable.

[Invisible Man]

The American Revolution was violent and Americans were very content with how it played out.

Most are.

But should they be?

I think not. The 1 tyrant 3,000 miles away would not have proven as tyrannical as the 3,000 tyrants 1 mile away did.

[BSWPaulsen]

Most are.

But should they be?

I think not.

I can only thank God the founders had no use for men like you.

[Krugminator2]

Good on Rand. These people have absolutely nothing in common with freedom. And they cause freedom lovers to lose the moral high ground against leftists who act like this.

Trump lost. Acting like a baboon won't change that fact. The National Guard should order people to disperse. If they don't, shoot them. Won't take sending to many to morgue to get the message. These are hippies of the right and hippies are allergic to bullets. Reagan did it at Berkeley. Took one day and a couple of dead hippies to end the nonsense.

[AngryCanadian]

Not Trump supporters.

I might agree.

[pcosmar]

Olympia was Peaceful,, yet angry..

Every Capitol had something going on as well.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/p...1-91ae09c45267

[enhanced_deficit]

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
1h
I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!





The Latest: Biden denounces protesters’ violence at Capitol
16 minutes ago

8/32 WASHINGTON, DC – JANUARY 06: Members of congress run for cover as protesters try to enter the House Chamber during a joint session of Congress on January 06, 2021 in Washington, DC. Congress held a joint session today to ratify President-elect Joe Biden’s 306-232 Electoral College win over President Donald Trump. A group of Republican senators said they would reject the Electoral College votes of several states unless Congress appointed a commission to audit the election results.

3/32 A supporter of US President Donald Trump sits inside the office of US Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi as he protest inside the US Capitol in Washington, DC, January 6, 2021. – Demonstrators breeched security and entered the Capitol as Congress debated the a 2020 presidential election Electoral Vote Certification.

[phill4paul]

I got a neg. rep. from Invisible Man. Lol. I has teh hurts. You're such a dip $#@!. If ya got something to say then say it here in the forums.

[phill4paul]

Good on Rand. These people have absolutely nothing in common with freedom. And they cause freedom lovers to lose the moral high ground against leftists who act like this.

Trump lost. Acting like a baboon won't change that fact. The National Guard should order people to disperse. If they don't, shoot them. Won't take sending to many to morgue to get the message. These are hippies of the right and hippies are allergic to bullets. Reagan did it at Berkeley. Took one day and a couple of dead hippies to end the nonsense.

You, like Invisible Man, are a dip $#@!. That's one sure fire way to light off a real Civil War.

[wizardwatson]

Michael Tracey: Trump doesn’t have the concentration, discipline, organizational capacity, or ideological coherence to organize an actual “coup” attempt. A bunch of morons storming the Capitol with no apparent plan to accomplish anything is actually a pretty good representation of that

...

[BSWPaulsen]

You, like Invisible Man, are a dip $#@!. That's one sure fire way to light off a real Civil War.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phill4paul again.

[dannno]

...

Trump told them to stay peaceful, then after the shooting told them to go home.

Why should I listen to some $#@!tard on twitter who isn't even paying attention?

[Krugminator2]

You, like Invisible Man, are a dip $#@!. That's one sure fire way to light off a real Civil War.

And you are a hippie. If you join in the rioting, I hope the National Guard gives you a good delousing.

[69360]

A-holes. This isn't how you stage a coup. Breaking into the capitol building accomplishes nothing except getting your stupid ass sent to prison. They now need to either take the whole US government down or rot in jail. One guess at which happens.

[wizardwatson]

Trump told them to stay peaceful, then after the shooting told them to go home.

Why should I listen to some $#@!tard on twitter who isn't even paying attention?

It's a reasoned leftist refuting unreasonable leftists who are claiming this is some sort of Trump-ian coup attempt.

Posted to give outside perspective.

[phill4paul]

And you are a hippy. If you join in the rioting, I hope the National Guard gives you a good delousing.

You're just another Progressive. You want the government to do the things you are too afraid to.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Trump wasn't the flood. Trump was the dam.

[Krugminator2]

You're just another Progressive. You want the government to do the things you are too afraid to.

No actually I am a libertarian capitalist, unlike you. I can't even characterize what you are. I guess you are a Chomskyite or something. Capitalists believe in rule of law and the legitimate function of the state to enforce laws and settle disputes. Trump lost. The courts settled it. That's it.

And what do you mean afraid ? I don't perform brain surgery. I don't win NBA games. I don't build cars. That is the job of the police and National Guard. That is literally what they are trained and paid to do. That is their job and the legitimate function of government.

[Brian4Liberty]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...28882595885058

Note that Twitter has essentially locked down this tweet. No Retweets allowed. Imagine that. A President puts out a message during an emergency and Twitter blocks it.

[Thor]

Trump wasn't the flood. Trump was the dam.

Bingo!

[wizardwatson]

Bingo!

Judges were called over, and it was determined this was not in fact a bingo. Carry on.

[BSWPaulsen]

Trump wasn't the flood. Trump was the dam.

You get it.

[phill4paul]

No actually I am a libertarian capitalist, unlike you. I can't even characterize what you are. I guess you are a Chomskyite or something. Capitalists believe in rule of law and the legitimate function of the state to enforce laws and settle disputes. Trump lost. The courts settled it. That's it.

And what do you mean afraid to settle it? I don't perform brain surgery. I don't win NBA games. I don't build cars. That is the job of the police and National Guard. That is literally what they are trained and paid to do. That is their job and the legitimate function of government.

The state is not functioning legitimately. As a libertarian you should well know the history of police. They also are not legitimate. And you would rather the government do that which you yourself will not do. That makes you a coward. And a dip$#@!.