12 senators to object to Electoral College certification. Crickets from Rand Paul

[oyarde]

The 2016 election was not marred by a bold , in-your-face, gargantuan electoral FRAUD.



.

I suspect that it was , that the dems cheated a lot just more this time . I also dont see how it changes anything once it has been allowed to happen . So I'm expecting nothing of Cruz's or others objections .

[RJB]

OK, so every election senators should object?

Apparently in 2016 there were objections from some Democrat House members, but not any senators. I didn't even know that happened until I learned of it a few days ago. So it apparently wasn't a big deal. Maybe this does happen for a lot of elections, and it usually doesn't matter to anyone. I don't really see the point though.

If they have evidence now, 2016, whenever, they should investigate/prosecute. If not, don't. Do you agree or disagree? I don't know what point you are trying to make.

[Invisible Man]

If they have evidence now, 2016, whenever, they should investigate/prosecute. If not, don't. Do you agree or disagree? I don't know what point you are trying to make.

No. I don't agree that simply having evidence that somebody committed election fraud is a reason for objections to be raised when the electors are being counted. That's not the job of Congress.

[JJ2]

The problem isn't Rand, it's the RINOs in the Senate, because if the Senate does not reject the Electoral College
results from enough states to push Biden under 270, Biden wins. Every contested state will each get a vote upon certify or not
in the House and Senate on a one-by-one basis.

It is difficult to imagine Romney, Collins, Alexander, Sasse, Thune (who Trump unwittingly inflamed) consenting to invalidating
enough states to make this happen.

After that, it's only the lunatic fringe that claims Pence himself can refuse to validate the states. The 12th Amendment does not give the
VP that ability to decide on his own. His only role is to put it to the House per 12th rules if the House goes one way and the Senate another.

Pence could delay the procedure and ask for a period of further inspection and debate, but again, it reverts ultimately to the GOP acting
as a unit with full strength that is unlikely to happen.

Even if the Senate was united, the Electoral Count Act would have to be declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS in order for it to go to the House state delegations for a vote. The ECA says that if the Senate and House disagree with each other, the objections are dismissed.

[Contumacious]

Of course my horse, but it is your position that the VP has the power to decide whether that is in fact the case i.e. whether the election was fair or not, and so to decide which of the electoral votes to recognize - correct? And so VP Biden would have been within his rights to find that the 2016 election was not fair, not recognize certain electoral votes, and declare Hillary the winner - no? If not, who had the power to overrule him? If anyone, then that same person/entity must surely have the power to overrule Pence now...?

And since the folks responsible for adjudicating these issues are refusing Americans must accept the fact that we are fast heading towards a very very bloody civil war.



. In Chambers v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, 207 U.S. 142, 28 S. Ct. 34, 52 L. Ed. 143 (1907), the Supreme Court characterized this right of access in the following terms:

The right to sue and defend in the courts is the alternative of force. In an organized society it is the right conservative of all other rights, and lies at the foundation of orderly government. It is one of the highest and most essential privileges of citizenship, and must be allowed by each state to the citizens of all other states to the precise extent that it is allowed to its own citizens. Equality of treatment in this respect is not left to depend upon comity between the states, but is granted and protected by the Federal Constitution.


.

[r3volution 3.0]

And since the folks responsible for adjudicating these issues are refusing Americans must accept the fact that we are fast heading towards a very very bloody civil war.



. In Chambers v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, 207 U.S. 142, 28 S. Ct. 34, 52 L. Ed. 143 (1907), the Supreme Court characterized this right of access in the following terms:

The right to sue and defend in the courts is the alternative of force. In an organized society it is the right conservative of all other rights, and lies at the foundation of orderly government. It is one of the highest and most essential privileges of citizenship, and must be allowed by each state to the citizens of all other states to the precise extent that it is allowed to its own citizens. Equality of treatment in this respect is not left to depend upon comity between the states, but is granted and protected by the Federal Constitution.


.

You didn't answer my question.

Here it is more direct-like; did VP Biden have the legal right to make Hillary President on January 6, 2017, or not?

Y/N

[Contumacious]

You didn't answer my question.

Here it is more direct-like; did VP Biden have the legal right to make Hillary President on January 6, 2017, or not?

Y/N

Of course the question you REALLY meant to ask was


IN THE ABSCENCE OF ELECTORAL FRAUD did VP Biden have the legal right to make Hillary President on January 6, 2017, or not?

Y/N

NO



.

[r3volution 3.0]

Of course the question you REALLY meant to ask was


IN THE ABSCENCE OF ELECTORAL FRAUD did VP Biden have the legal right to make Hillary President on January 6, 2017, or not?

Y/N

NO



.

The question I meant to ask was just the one I asked.

Let's try again.

Who decides whether there was electoral fraud?

Is it sufficient for the VP to say that there was fraud, and so appoint whoever he likes to be POTUS?

If not, then how should this process work in your view?

[Contumacious]

The question I meant to ask was just the one I asked.

Let's try again.

Who decides whether there was electoral fraud?

Is it sufficient for the VP to say that there was fraud, and so appoint whoever he likes to be POTUS?If not, then how should this process work in your view?

And since the folks responsible for adjudicating these issues are refusing Americans must accept the fact that we are fast heading towards a very very bloody civil war.



. In Chambers v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, 207 U.S. 142, 28 S. Ct. 34, 52 L. Ed. 143 (1907), the Supreme Court characterized this right of access in the following terms:

The right to sue and defend in the courts is the alternative of force. In an organized society it is the right conservative of all other rights, and lies at the foundation of orderly government. It is one of the highest and most essential privileges of citizenship, and must be allowed by each state to the citizens of all other states to the precise extent that it is allowed to its own citizens. Equality of treatment in this respect is not left to depend upon comity between the states, but is granted and protected by the Federal Constitution.

[r3volution 3.0]

And since the folks responsible for adjudicating these issues are refusing Americans must accept the fact that we are fast heading towards a very very bloody civil war.

. In Chambers v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, 207 U.S. 142, 28 S. Ct. 34, 52 L. Ed. 143 (1907), the Supreme Court characterized this right of access in the following terms:

The right to sue and defend in the courts is the alternative of force. In an organized society it is the right conservative of all other rights, and lies at the foundation of orderly government. It is one of the highest and most essential privileges of citizenship, and must be allowed by each state to the citizens of all other states to the precise extent that it is allowed to its own citizens. Equality of treatment in this respect is not left to depend upon comity between the states, but is granted and protected by the Federal Constitution.

You are unwilling to answer the question.

I understand...

On another note, what will you be doing when Biden is President?

[Contumacious]

You are unwilling to answer the question.

I understand...

On another note, what will you be doing when Biden is President?

I'll be in Lucerne, Switzerland considering the options.


.

[r3volution 3.0]

I'll be in Lucerne, Switzerland considering the options.


.

Go for a hike on Pilatus and rethink things.

[Contumacious]

Go for a hike on Pilatus and rethink things.

Mrs Contumacious prefers The Matterhorn .


.

[dude58677]

The question I meant to ask was just the one I asked.

Let's try again.

Who decides whether there was electoral fraud?

Is it sufficient for the VP to say that there was fraud, and so appoint whoever he likes to be POTUS?

If not, then how should this process work in your view?

The fraud is obvious to anyone who looks at and examines the evidence. Justice was not served in the courts so Mike Pence has to do it all by himself.

[Contumacious]

The fraud is obvious to anyone who looks at and examines the evidence. Justice was not served in the courts so Mike Pence has to do it all by himself.

[enhanced_deficit]

Smart move, let those 12 torpedo their political careers with this nonsense and be better positioned for a 2024 run.

This statement carries much weight now than it did few hours ago.

Did Trump just encourage Republicans to vote for Democrats in Georgia Senate election?

[enhanced_deficit]

The president re-tweeted today, calling out Rand Paul:

Question, why globalist neocon funded leader has not called out Lindsey Graham or Mike Lee who had much more influence on Trump foreign policy, foreign aid spending, Iran/Israel policy, stimulus spending instead of trying to put Rand on the spot?
Is it because well funded lobbies did not allow putting on spot strong allies of the only democracy in mideast?

[r3volution 3.0]

The fraud is obvious to anyone who looks at and examines the evidence. Justice was not served in the courts so Mike Pence has to do it all by himself.

Many millions of units of media cash are spent to cause people to have your opinion.

Mike Pence is going to declare Trump the winner? LOL no, he's isn't.

That won't be happening.

[dude58677]

Many millions of units of media cash are spent to cause people to have your opinion.

Mike Pence is going to declare Trump the winner? LOL no, he's isn't.

That won't be happening.

You say it isn’t going to happen because you don’t think it should happen.

[JJ2]

The President of the Senate , VP Pence must exercise his EXCLUSIVE AUTHORITY pursuant to the 12A and reject the EC electors chosen by the treasonous/seditious demo rats.

There are no alternate electors for Pence to count. Even the PA Trump "electors" themselves said that Congress cannot count their votes unless the state legislatures certify them or there is a final court order! They said that it was a "conditional" vote "on the understanding that if, as a result of a final non-appealable Court Order or other proceeding prescribed by law, [they] are ultimately recognized as being the duly elected and qualified Electors" http://www.pagop.org/2020/12/republi...ocedural-vote/

So, by their own admission, neither Pence nor Congress can count them on Wednesday.

[Mordan]

If there was fraud, there should be a challenge. If there wasn't fraud, there should not be a challenge. It's that simple.

yep.

I don't care about anything else.

i want fraud to be digged out if any.

[Invisible Man]

yep.

I don't care about anything else.

i want fraud to be digged out if any.

I agree with you there. And I don't know of anyone who disagrees, apart from any who positively want fraud and benefit from it.

But I don't see the connection between the investigation/prosecution of fraud and the counting of the electors.

[Mordan]

I agree with you there. And I don't know of anyone who disagrees, apart from any who positively want fraud and benefit from it.

But I don't see the connection between the investigation/prosecution of fraud and the counting of the electors.

Before the count is done, a senator can raise objections because he think there was fraud.

Evidence will be presented.

That is my take from what i have been told.

[Invisible Man]

Before the count is done, a senator can raise objections because he think there was fraud.

Evidence will be presented.

That is my take from what i have been told.

That's what I have been seeing Trumpers saying for the past couple weeks. But what's the actual basis for believing that?

Every state has laws against election fraud and the means in place to investigate it and prosecute the people who committed it. It happens all the time. In fact, I would bet that right now there are individuals all around the country who got caught casting fraudulent votes, some for Biden and others for Trump, already being punished for it. Just like happened in 2016, and every other previous election where people got caught doing it. But that's all separate from what the Senate does. It's not even a federal law, as far as I know.

[unknown]

Whats the Constitutional position?

[Invisible Man]

Whats the Constitutional position?

It looks pretty clear to me, and I don't see any wiggle room. It requires Pence to count the very same electoral votes that the states certified, sealed, and sent, and to count all of them.

[unknown]

It looks pretty clear to me, and I don't see any wiggle room. It requires Pence to count the very same electoral votes that the states certified, sealed, and sent, and to count all of them.

Where do you see this in the Constitution?

Asking because I dont know where to look for it.

[Invisible Man]

Where do you see this in the Constitution?

12th Amendment.

[unknown]

12th Amendment.

Reading through it now.

Looking to see how they can derail the steal.

Wonder what happened with these suits:

8 States in Voting Lawsuits With Election Day Less Than a Week Away.

With Election Day just days away, and early voting already underway in many states, the election-related lawsuits have been piling up, and court decisions (and appeals) have been coming out at a dizzying rate.

Some are still trying to change the rules in the middle of the election that would make it easier to commit fraud and to manipulate election results—not unlike a college football coach persuading the referees to change the rules in the middle of a bowl game to make sure his team can win.

[Invisible Man]

Reading through it now.

Looking to see how they can derail the steal.

Wonder what happened with these suits:

8 States in Voting Lawsuits With Election Day Less Than a Week Away.

The presidential election is comprised of votes cast by electors from the states, not votes of individual citizens through some nationwide democratic election as people generally conceive of it. Each state gets a number of electors equal to its number of senators plus its number of representatives. Each state gets to decide according to its own laws how to determine who gets to be electors, and each state is responsible for enforcing its own laws in how it does that. After each state determines who its electors are through whatever method that is for that state, those electors vote in their states. Their votes are sealed, certified, and sent to be counted pursuant to the 12th Amendment. If a candidate wins the majority of those electoral votes, that candidate is elected president.

So my question for you is, if the majority of the electors, who were chosen through the methods the states set for themselves, and whose votes have all been sealed and certified by their respective states and sent to be opened by Pence and counted before Congress, voted for Biden, how would Biden winning be stealing anything? He would have won exactly according to the rules the Constitution sets.