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Thread: Which countries have the most US expats?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Honduras sells citizenship for a reasonable price of about $30,000 per person, FYI.

    The next best option requires more serious money: Portugal at $500,000, which is a better passport, but it costs.
    Interesting, wonder if a Honduran citizenship lessens requirements elsewhere? That is, once received, your not American.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Even if you have a million in savings you'd get wiped out in a few years
    Yeah $1 million isn't enough to retire on, and never put it in savings. It has to be invested in order to out pace inflation.
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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Honduras sells citizenship for a reasonable price of about $30,000 per person, FYI.

    The next best option requires more serious money: Portugal at $500,000, which is a better passport, but it costs.
    Also, do you have a link?

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Interesting, wonder if a Honduran citizenship lessens requirements elsewhere? That is, once received, your not American.
    Well, Americans get very preferential treatment in a lot of places at the moment, so US citizenship has its perks.

    The hat trick is to get some other citizenship (or at least long term residency permit of some kind) while remaining a US citizen.

    At least that's my thinking at the moment; things could change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Also, do you have a link?
    I do, though I misspoke, it's Nicaragua that has the $30,000 program.

    https://www.escapeartist.com/blog/re...-in-nicaragua/

    Honduras does have something similar, but I haven't looked into it much.

    Anyway, the Nicaraguan program is pretty clever.

    You can invest the $30,000 in reforestation and actually (in theory...) get a return, so it's not a straight loss.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 12-30-2020 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Really?

    Where else can you go where the government (mostly) recognizes your right to free speech and right to keep and bear arms?


    Hint: no other government on earth allows as much speech and gun freedom as the US.... and yes of course I realize that our government isn't very good at it, but there isn't anywhere that is better.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, Americans get very preferential treatment in a lot of places at the moment, so US citizenship has its perks.

    T

    Puerto Rico still falls under the Constitution but it is really separate from the US. They have no income tax for ex-pats and you don't have to give up your passport to live there and not pay US federal taxes. Of course, it is crime-ridden, bankrupt, has an angry proletariat that might revolt against whitey at some point, and has earthquakes and hurricanes. Also the electrical grid is prone to failure. But if you can live in a gated neighborhood and still have a place to go on the mainland in case of hurricanes, zero income tax is a pretty big incentive for some to move there. A big risk is they remove the tax incentives, property values in ex pat (i.e. white) areas would plummet overnight.

    Giving up US citizenship to live in some of the third world countries mentioned in this thread seems like a very bad idea. Puerto Rico at least gives you the option to move back to the US
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 12-30-2020 at 10:36 PM.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Puerto Rico still falls under the Constitution but it is really separate from the US. They have no income tax for ex-pats and you don't have to give up your passport to live there and not pay US federal taxes. Of course, it is crime-ridden, bankrupt, has an angry proletariat that might revolt against whitey at some point, and has earthquakes and hurricanes. Also the electrical grid is prone to failure. But if you can live in a gated neighborhood and still have a place to go on the mainland in case of hurricanes, zero income tax is a pretty big incentive for some to move there. A big risk is they remove the tax incentives, property values in ex pat (i.e. white) areas would plummet overnight.
    The original "Schifferite" has figured this out..

    Giving up US citizenship to live in some of the third world countries mentioned in this thread seems like a very bad idea. Puerto Rico at least gives you the option to move back to the US
    Currently? Yes, there are risks.

    In a decade? ...we'll see, the comparison may look a lot more favorable.

    And, as with anything, one wants to buy when the asset is cheap.

  9. #37
    And @Krugminator2 acquiring citizenship or similar in at least some of these countries does not require giving up US citizenship, as I understand it (inquiring minds should consult competent immigration counsel). Therefore, the ideal situation, IMO, would be to be a US citizen, but have an established right to get on a plane and live for an indeterminately long period of time elsewhere, if the situation here at home warrants that: and then, if things really go tits up, take domicile elsewhere. In other words, this is insurance. And, no, Puerto Rico won't do it, as the Congress can decide to revoke their tax privileges tomorrow at noon if they please, and maybe even retroactively, as CA is trying to do (which, yes, is plainly unconstitutional, but when has that ever stopped them?).

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    And @Krugminator2 acquiring citizenship or similar in at least some of these countries does not require giving up US citizenship, as I understand it (inquiring minds should consult competent immigration counsel). Therefore, the ideal situation, IMO, would be to be a US citizen, but have an established right to get on a plane and live for an indeterminately long period of time elsewhere, if the situation here at home warrants that: and then, if things really go tits up, take domicile elsewhere. In other words, this is insurance. And, no, Puerto Rico won't do it, as the Congress can decide to revoke their tax privileges tomorrow at noon if they please, and maybe even retroactively, as CA is trying to do (which, yes, is plainly unconstitutional, but when has that ever stopped them?).
    You still have to pay taxes to the US government if you live in one of those third world countries.

    Congress can't directly revoke Puerto Rico's tax privileges. Puerto Rico doesn't have any voting congressional reps. No taxation without representation. The backdoor way those tax incentives would get repealed by the US government is if congress made Puerto Rico the 51st state, which is a very real threat with a Dem Congress, Dem Senate, and Dem president. Puerto Rico gives Dems two Senators and a House rep.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    You still have to pay taxes to the US government if you live in one of those third world countries.

    Congress can't directly revoke Puerto Rico's tax privileges. Puerto Rico doesn't have any voting congressional reps. No taxation without representation. The backdoor way those tax incentives would get repealed by the US government is if congress made Puerto Rico the 51st state, which is a very real threat with a Dem Congress, Dem Senate, and Dem president. Puerto Rico gives Dems two Senators and a House rep.
    I don't think it's just Democrats who want that. When Ron Paul was in Congress there was a vote on a bill to allow Puerto Rico a chance to become a state and he voted yes, along with a lot of other Republicans.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    You still have to pay taxes to the US government if you live in one of those third world countries.

    Congress can't directly revoke Puerto Rico's tax privileges. Puerto Rico doesn't have any voting congressional reps. No taxation without representation. The backdoor way those tax incentives would get repealed by the US government is if congress made Puerto Rico the 51st state, which is a very real threat with a Dem Congress, Dem Senate, and Dem president. Puerto Rico gives Dems two Senators and a House rep.
    McConnell won't bring it up for a vote, but if he did, even with a majority-Republican Senate, I think it would likely pass.

    In 2009 the House voted on a bill to allow Puerto Rico the opportunity to determine for itself if it wanted to become a state, and it passed by a large margin with a decent amount of Republican votes for it, including Mike Pence's. Ron Paul did not vote. But I seem to remember at the time he did make a procedural vote that favored the passage of the bill. I haven't sifted through the bill actions here to see if my memory is right on that. I remember Liberty Eagle complaining about whatever it was RP did.

    If today's Senate voted on this and the same percentage of Republicans voted Aye, as at least some surely would do, then it would pass both the House and Senate.

    https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2010242



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    Bullshat on "no language barrier" as well.

    Their working and lower class version of English is unintelligible.
    You wot, mate?
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    You wot, mate?
    Exactly.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Puerto Rico still falls under the Constitution but it is really separate from the US. They have no income tax for ex-pats and you don't have to give up your passport to live there and not pay US federal taxes. Of course, it is crime-ridden, bankrupt, has an angry proletariat that might revolt against whitey at some point, and has earthquakes and hurricanes. Also the electrical grid is prone to failure. But if you can live in a gated neighborhood and still have a place to go on the mainland in case of hurricanes, zero income tax is a pretty big incentive for some to move there. A big risk is they remove the tax incentives, property values in ex pat (i.e. white) areas would plummet overnight.

    Giving up US citizenship to live in some of the third world countries mentioned in this thread seems like a very bad idea. Puerto Rico at least gives you the option to move back to the US
    PR has a wage tax. But they have made it exempt for business owners and investors from paying tax on those earnings.


    See Act 20/22:






    There are several problems with PR though....


    It's an island so resources can be scarce. Also the Jones Act makes it exceptionally expensive to import goods. I'm sure their property and gas and sales taxes are outrageous. Owning and even carrying a firearm is very difficult to do, if not impossible.

    Their government is openly corrupt and after the last major hurricane they literally confiscated imported solar panels at the docks and prevented home owners from installing them even though the government run utility provided refused to provide power for nearly a year.

    It is subject to devastating hurricanes.

    And the people don't have a foundation of freedom like the mainland US does (I admit it isn't much anymore but it is still a noticeable difference).
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Yeah $1 million isn't enough to retire on, and never put it in savings. It has to be invested in order to out pace inflation.
    I think if you invest in inflation hedges a million is way more than enough to retire on in the US, under the current conditions.

    Like I mentioned before my worry is that they go to some type of means testing for SS and Medicare. In that scenario a million wouldn't last long because you'd basically be supporting hundreds of people. In that scenario your health insurance could easily be 100K a year to cover all the uninsured that qualify for the means test.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The original "Schifferite" has figured this out..
    What's a Shifferite?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I think if you invest in inflation hedges a million is way more than enough to retire on in the US, under the current conditions.
    I agree, assuming that your home is paid for and not included in that million. But keep in mind that current conditions include the ability of retirees to supplement those savings with Social Security. The day will come when that can't be counted on.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I agree, assuming that your home is paid for and not included in that million. But keep in mind that current conditions include the ability of retirees to supplement those savings with Social Security. The day will come when that can't be counted on.
    I agree. And the question is how does the US govt make ends meet when the dollar collapses? Will it be a massive wealth redistribution plan (means testing)? Or will it be across the board cuts? If they cut things without means testing (like raising age at which you get benefits), I think a million will still be good enough. But if it turns into a massive welfare system at the federal level pretty much everyone will get wiped out.

    When only one group gets a benefit it becomes a tax to the non-benefit group. For example in an extreme case suppose they gave everyone a million dollars every year, except for you. Even if you didn't have to pay any tax explicitly, it would still be a massive indirect tax that would wipe you out, although I haven't figured out the math on this exactly.

    This is one case where I strongly disagree with Rand Paul. He's made a lot of comments like "why should everyone get a stimulus check?" I think stimulus checks are stupid but if you'e going to have them, everyone should get them. At least that way it's less of a forced redistribution plan.
    Last edited by Madison320; 12-31-2020 at 11:24 AM.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I think if you invest in inflation hedges a million is way more than enough to retire on in the US, under the current conditions.
    drawing 4% from $1 mil = only $40k/year. That's not enough to live on really unless you want to live poor. Now if you combine that with $1500/mo social security, then it could be ok, especially with no other obligations or debt. But we all know Social Security isn't going to last very long.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    drawing 4% from $1 mil = only $40k/year. That's not enough to live on really unless you want to live poor.
    If you have a paid for home, that's easily enough for a person or married couple to live on comfortably in a lot of the country. Maybe not in some of the more expensive areas. Add Social Security to that, and then it's more than enough to do quite well. You also have all the principle, not just the interest.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 12-31-2020 at 12:40 PM.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    PR has a wage tax. But they have made it exempt for business owners and investors from paying tax on those earnings.


    See Act 20/22:






    There are several problems with PR though....


    It's an island so resources can be scarce. Also the Jones Act makes it exceptionally expensive to import goods. I'm sure their property and gas and sales taxes are outrageous. Owning and even carrying a firearm is very difficult to do, if not impossible.

    Their government is openly corrupt and after the last major hurricane they literally confiscated imported solar panels at the docks and prevented home owners from installing them even though the government run utility provided refused to provide power for nearly a year.

    It is subject to devastating hurricanes.

    And the people don't have a foundation of freedom like the mainland US does (I admit it isn't much anymore but it is still a noticeable difference).
    Sure I have been there. It is a $#@! hole. That's why I don't live there. But let's say you are Peter Schiff and make 10 mill a year, 3.5 mill in tax savings is probably worth the headaches. Whereas I can't really see any justification to live in even poorer Central American countries unless you own a sports betting site or something that needs to be out of US jurisdiction.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 12-31-2020 at 04:44 PM.

  25. #51
    Ex-Pat

    So, leave the U.S., in search of a freer place, weigh the economics, and then “invade” other countries.

    Do you plan to document yourselves (register with the government) so that you can sponge off of the system, or just go down as “illegals” and support yourselves?

    LOL

    My, my how the tables suddenly turn.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Ex-Pat

    So, leave the U.S., in search of a freer place, weigh the economics, and then “invade” other countries.

    Do you plan to document yourselves (register with the government) so that you can sponge off of the system, or just go down as “illegals” and support yourselves?

    LOL

    My, my how the tables suddenly turn.

    ROTFLMAO!!!

    "You must spread some Reputation around..."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Ex-Pat

    So, leave the U.S., in search of a freer place, weigh the economics, and then “invade” other countries.

    Do you plan to document yourselves (register with the government) so that you can sponge off of the system, or just go down as “illegals” and support yourselves?

    LOL

    My, my how the tables suddenly turn.
    Looks to me like most of the posters in this thread are some of the most pro-immigration posters on the site. So I don't see any tables turned or hypocrisy.

    And I see exactly zero places mentioned that are even remotely close to being as free as the United States.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Looks to me like most of the posters in this thread are some of the most pro-immigration posters on the site. So I don't see any tables turned or hypocrisy.

    And I see exactly zero places mentioned that are even remotely close to being as free as the United States.





    I wasn’t born just yesterday... I’ve been around ;-)
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  29. #55


    https://www.discovercookislands.com/...s-immigration/

    Please register me, and register me often.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Ex-Pat

    So, leave the U.S., in search of a freer place, weigh the economics, and then “invade” other countries.

    Do you plan to document yourselves (register with the government) so that you can sponge off of the system, or just go down as “illegals” and support yourselves?

    LOL

    My, my how the tables suddenly turn.
    Yes, because everyone here is proposing violating the immigration laws of the nation they would consider immigrating to. That's exactly the same as enforcing our own laws.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    Yes, because everyone here is proposing violating the immigration laws of the nation they would consider immigrating to. That's exactly the same as enforcing our own laws.
    The difference being, in my personal experience, some places welcome ex-pats, and do not enforce immigration laws, knowing that money spent will help their local economy. Little to no social programs exist, you are on your own. The locals there do not observe or enforce authoritarian laws, they and the ex-pats simply go about their own private business.

    Here, "republicans", democrats, even the let's-pretend-we-are-freedom-advocates, go into a hissy fit, demanding that "illegals" register with the government, the same government that they complain about regarding taxation and other stupid, restrictive, authoritarian laws. The result of that is once registered with the government, they become eligible for government programs. As you can see, social programs are completely out of control here in the states, all because "we must abide by immigration laws and sign them up!".
    Last edited by PAF; 01-01-2021 at 03:25 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The difference being, in my personal experience, some places welcome ex-pats, and do not enforce immigration laws, knowing that money spent will help their local economy. Little to no social programs exist, you are on your own. The locals there do not observe or enforce authoritarian laws, they and the ex-pats simply go about their own private business.

    .
    Name some countries that aren't unfree $#@! hole messes that fit the description you listed. I would like to know for my own benefit.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, Americans get very preferential treatment in a lot of places at the moment, so US citizenship has its perks.

    The hat trick is to get some other citizenship (or at least long term residency permit of some kind) while remaining a US citizen.


    ...


    Anyway, the Nicaraguan program is pretty clever.

    You can invest the $30,000 in reforestation and actually (in theory...) get a return, so it's not a straight loss.
    In many countries, you can use the value of property or a house/condo/etc toward the value of the investment. So there are housing communities which have a veneer of a "co-op real estate investment" smeared on top of them, and the price of the units are conveniently the exact value required to earn permanent residency.

    I have some good candidates for that for myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Name some countries that aren't unfree $#@! hole messes that fit the description you listed. I would like to know for my own benefit.
    I would rather not advertise the places that I’ve found. Think of it like the U.S., there are areas more conducive to a freer lifestyle and other areas deep in socialism. If you are a vacationer/traveler, do you do the tourist route, or do you routinely venture off the beaten path? If you do travel abroad, do you make it a point to talk to locals, establish, maintain friendships, see and learn how they actually live and fly under the radar? That would be your best bet... the lifestyle that you want to maintain or establish, your wants/needs, may be completely different than mine.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

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