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Thread: Giuliani, Powell, et al. Sued for Defamation

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    It's not about Trump. Go watch these hearing highlights: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...55#post7007555

    Yes, the Trumpers want Trump to win and the left doesn't. But you've already said you don't care about that. So, why support the squelch? I don't get it.
    Let me put it another way. Whatever kind of reasonable steps you may have in mind, to end the squelch, would not satisfy the Trump people. They will never give this up, no matter what anyone does or says. There could be a non-partisan panel researching this for 50 years, reporting annually, and finding nothing every year, and these people will go to their grave utterly convinced that Trump won. So why even bother? You might as well try to convert the Pope to Buddhism.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 12-24-2020 at 12:33 AM.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Let me put it another way. Whatever kind of reasonable steps you may have in mind, to end the squelch, would not satisfy the Trump people. They will never give this up, no matter what anyone does or says. There could be a non-partisan panel researching this for 50 years, reporting annually, and finding nothing every year, and these people will go to their grave utterly convinced that Trump won. So why even bother? You might as well try to convert the Pope to Buddhism.
    Yes, but that's of way lower concern to us as a nation. It feels like you're being a little petty about not wanting to give the Trumpers a leg to stand on. Ok, fine.

    But the larger picture here is that something wacky happened (Biden 15% more votes than Obama) and because the narrative is that Biden won, the left is turning up the squelch on any examination or contrary information. We have a big opportunity here to call attention to the media's shaping of perception. Who cares which politician's fans may be happy or sad.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yes, but that's of way lower concern to us as a nation. It feels like you're being a little petty about not wanting to give the Trumpers a leg to stand on. Ok, fine.
    How could I give them a leg to stand on?

    Should I just agree with them when they post baseless nonsense? (I'm not going to do that)

    Should I ignore them? (I probably should do that...)

    For the record, I'm not in fact Turtleface McConnell, and I don't set the Senatorial schedule.

    But the larger picture here is that something wacky happened (Biden 15% more votes than Obama)
    Total turnout was extremely high across the board. How many more votes did Trump receive relative 2016?

    It must have been about the same, since the results were about the same.

    So, Trump got round about 15% more votes than he did last time; well, I guess that's a sign of fraud?

    and because the narrative is that Biden won, the left is turning up the squelch on any examination or contrary information. We have a big opportunity here to call attention to the media's shaping of perception. Who cares which politician's fans may be happy or sad.
    In this case, my perception aligns with the media's as to the outcome; I think Biden won, fair and square.

    Again, if people want to investigate, have at it.

    If and when they have proof of the fraud (which I have no reason to believe exists), show me, and we'll proceed from there.

    If you remember 2016, Trump won by a *very* tight margin, tighter than this time.

    I don't recall Dems behaving this way, though.

    Hillary bitched for years about how Russia or whoever affected the voting, but they didn't question the vote count itself.

    This is something new, and not good.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    So you are saying if software tampering occurred in some counties, then all the other dominion counties should have reflected that as well?
    That doesn't match with the theory that the ghost of Hugo Chavez turned our election Venezuelan.



    It's actually even more complicated and ridiculous than the actual theory being put forth.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  7. #35
    And since the argument that you discuss was created by yourself and you are solely responsible for its content , it is called a strawman argument.


    .

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    And since the argument that you discuss was created by yourself and you are solely responsible for its content , it is called a strawman argument.


    .
    Has it occurred to you that Trump lost?

    And that's why everyone's saying that...

    Is that, in your worldview, even possible?

  9. #37
    Yo Vern , we are dealing with FACTS not with an occurrence.

    The Facts clearly show that he won by a Landslide

    So what you are asking me is to ignore the facts because you canít handle the facts

    What a quaint request !!!!!!!!!!!!!



    .

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    Yo Vern , we are dealing with FACTS not with an occurrence.

    The Facts clearly show that he won by a Landslide

    So what you are asking me is to ignore the facts because you can’t handle the facts

    What a quaint request !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    .


    @CaptUSA

    See what I mean?
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 12-24-2020 at 03:18 AM.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post


    @CaptUSA

    See what I mean?
    Yeah. It's complete cognitive dissonance. "Trump won by a landslide." Made-up nonsense. We've spent the last four years on these forums witnessing the devolution of rational thought, with every lame excuse the Trumpkins made for Dear Leader.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    Sonny, if you are actually an attorney then you should know that sworn affidavits are absolutely evidence.
    I know they are hearsay and therefore inadmissible. If you want to prove the truth of what's contained in the affidavit you get the person who swore to it to appear in court and be subject to cross-examination.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    The Facts clearly show that he won by a Landslide
    No, that's one of Trump's "alternate facts", which bears absolutely no relationship to the truth other than being its polar opposite.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    As with any civil suit, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff. But given the utter inability of Giuliani and Powell to substantiate in court any of their conspiracy theories, it could be an interesting case.
    This is probably the first conspiracy theory that they seem so hell bent on squashing. Even 9/11 and Pizzagate weren't so stonewalled.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    When you rig an election and get called out on it there is no defamation.
    This is one case where Dominion actually did do it to themselves. They committed the actual fraud, and need to be properly and legally investigated and prosecuted. If they had "done nothing wrong" then we would not be as pissed as we are.

    This case is a Legal Countersuit that has NOTHING to do with the legality, but trying to validate an INVALID ELECTION. An INVALID ELECTION that the people that are supposed to be taking their charge of responsibility to investigate accusations of fraud seriously, and they are not. They are dismissive of ALL evidence. It would be like a cop walking into a murder scene, looking at a dead body with blood all over the walls and saying there is no evidence of foul play. That is basically a metaphor for what happened this election cycle.

    Then you have the True Believers who base their ideas to support their own bias. If they hate Trump, they cherry-pick which "facts" they want to listen to. This is nothing more than twisting the facts to suit the narrative, and the intended outcome of the current narrative is absolutely $#@!ing obvious. They want another Crony in office, and Trump out, at ANY cost.

    A responsible Trump hater should WANT to examine ALL evidence themselves because next election, it could very easily be someone else they hate getting into office. Perhaps we get Trump to try to play the part of the crook JUST to get the $#@!s in charge to try to find evidence of fraud?

    It is far more important that we have Information Discovery phase, examine the evidence presented, and consider whether or not fraud has taken place or not. A fair and honest election is a FOUNDATION of a Free and Open Society.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    If the fact that Trump won the vast majority of counties where dominion voting systems were used isn't enough to derail this particular crazy train, then I'm not sure that the appointment details of judges are going to tip the scales.

    However, I applaud your efforts.
    If electoral college votes were appointed by county you would have a point. But they aren't.....so you don't. The question isn't whether or not Trump won this county or that. The question is did he under-perform in counties with Dominion voting machines.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    So why even bother?
    because truth matters.

    or do you not agree with that principle?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by danda View Post
    because truth matters.

    or do you not agree with that principle?
    Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies.

    What else do we think all this Censorship by the MSM and Social Media is about? Suppressing the truth so those who benefit from these acts can continue to retain their power.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    A responsible Trump hater should WANT to examine ALL evidence themselves
    I would put myself in this camp, more or less.

    Well, I have not been a Trump supporter or hater. I did not vote for him (or Hillary). Even before he was elected, I told people I would worry he might never leave office if elected given his narcissism and populism.

    All that said, I have been looking at the evidence since Nov 3 and closely following all the hearings and investigations. I've been following PatrickByrne, SydneyPowell and others that are actively involved in the investigations. I have listened to dozens of witnesses personally testify to fraud they saw firsthand. I have listened to expert witnesses testify regarding statistical evidence, computer fraud, and so on.

    As a mostly neutral party to begin with, I've become personally convinced that there was massive fraud, well above and beyond the "regular" fraud that occurs each cycle, which was already high, in my estimation. Patrick Byrne is a fellow small-l libertarian that is investigating much of this, and he was not a Trump fan to begin with either. He states he is doing it because he is a constitutionalist, and he sees the country being stolen.

    There is a word for what is happening. It is not "voter fraud", or even "election fraud". It is Coup d'etat.

    I would think that any true freedom lover or Ron Paul fan would be able to see this.

    I have been away from RPF for some years. Returning, I see 3 people that are debating just a little too hard in favor of the idea that there was no fraud, and there should be no investigation of such. They have join dates of 2012, 2014+, so newcomers by my standard.

    Quite frankly, I question these people's motives here on this forum. And I know I am not the first.
    Last edited by danda; 12-24-2020 at 02:04 PM.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    A responsible Trump hater should WANT to examine ALL evidence themselves
    I agree.

    So should a responsible Trump supporter.

    Unfortunately, I keep seeing the opposite of that happening. And I keep seeing Trump supporters just blindly pass on hoaxes and already debunked claims that they themselves obviously never investigated to see if they're actually true, just because they support the desired conclusion that the election was stolen from Trump.

    If Trump supporters would be more critical with their own allegations, they would also be more credible.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    I know they are hearsay and therefore inadmissible. If you want to prove the truth of what's contained in the affidavit you get the person who swore to it to appear in court and be subject to cross-examination.
    As an attorney it should be obvious to you why Giuliani and Powell will most likely WIN the defamation lawsuit. First they don't have to jump over the procedural hurdles that have stopped them from even getting their cases heard because they are the ones being sued. And second, all they have to do is show they had good reason to believe the Dominion voting system was prone to fraud. That's it. And guess who they can call as witnesses? Why two democratic presidential candidates from 2020, namely Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobachar, who wrote a joint letter, along with two other Democrats, questioning the veracity of Dominion voting machines all the way up to 2019. They don't have to prove that Trump would have "won by a landslide" absent the Dominion voting machine system, which isn't just the voting machines themselves but also the tabulators and the entire "election management system," (See: https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/ele...mentation.html).

    That's what you, @TheCount and @r3volution 3.0 are missing. This defamation lawsuit definitely will NOT be about Trump. But through it Trump could win in the court of public opinion. Look at what happened to Johnny Depp. He had recording evidence that his ex wife was a psycho. But he still lost his defamation lawsuit against her and the British newspaper that used her story to claim he was a wife beater. He's never been adjudicated as a wife beater, but much of the world now thinks he does and he got blackballed out of the latest J.K. Rowling movie because of that. (He still got his full pay after shooting just one scene so it's not a total loss.)

    Bottom line is, there is solid evidence of before not publicly discussed levels of voting fraud. Enough to have swayed the election? Maybe. Enough for Powell and Giulliani to win against the defamation claim? DEFINITELY!

    Edit: Also it is false to make the blanket statement that hearsay is inadmissible. Many times it IS admissible. It just hast to be brought in under an exception.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_803

    And why on earth would you think that someone who made an affidavit wouldn't be willing to come in later to court an testify? Affidavits are used in court all the time in preliminary matters. And most federal motions are ruled on without hearings so that the only witness testimony put in is through affidavit.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 12-24-2020 at 02:36 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    I know they are hearsay and therefore inadmissible. If you want to prove the truth of what's contained in the affidavit you get the person who swore to it to appear in court and be subject to cross-examination.
    But a sworn affidavit is enough for a prosecutor to file criminal charges and issue an arrest warrant in a criminal case. Itís admissible as evidence from the start and only upon cross examination can it be thrown out.

    In trumps case they canít even get the witnesses on the stand because the corrupt judges refuse to leave their comfort zones. Doesnít make the evidence any less evidence.
    No - No - No - No
    2016

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    As an attorney it should be obvious to you why Giuliani and Powell will most likely WIN the defamation lawsuit.
    We had dozens of Trumpkins here stating Trump would win the election... and then when he did not, that Giuliani and Powell would "definitely" win their lawsuits. All of those lawsuits were dismissed. Then we were told by the Trumpkins that it's because the judges, even ones appointed by Trump, were corrupt.

    Now Giuliani and Powell are "most likely" going to win the defamation lawsuits against them. What happens when the conspiracy theorists in the media back down, as they are already doing? Lou Dobbs, who boosted these conspiracy theories on his show, is already running a video debunking what he said, and this video is being repeatedly aired on Fox Business, as a direct result of these lawsuits being filed. Fox Business knows they have no case in court, and by running this debunking video, they can shield themselves from financial liability.

    Do you really believe Elizabeth Warren is going to testify on behalf of Donald Trump's lawyers? You can't be serious.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    If electoral college votes were appointed by county you would have a point. But they aren't.....so you don't. The question isn't whether or not Trump won this county or that. The question is did he under-perform in counties with Dominion voting machines.
    He... under-performed by winning them?


    Under-performed by winning so many counties that the fact that he won so many counties is considered by some to be part of the "evidence" that the election was fraudulent?

    Under-performed by winning so many counties that one of the many, many, many different and conflicting conspiracy theories is that the fraud only happened in the counties he won?
    Last edited by TheCount; 12-24-2020 at 04:16 PM.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    We had dozens of Trumpkins here stating Trump would win the election... and then when he did not, that Giuliani and Powell would "definitely" win their lawsuits. All of those lawsuits were dismissed. Then we were told by the Trumpkins that it's because the judges, even ones appointed by Trump, were corrupt.

    Now Giuliani and Powell are "most likely" going to win the defamation lawsuits against them. What happens when the conspiracy theorists in the media back down, as they are already doing? Lou Dobbs, who boosted these conspiracy theories on his show, is already running a video debunking what he said, and this video is being repeatedly aired on Fox Business, as a direct result of these lawsuits being filed. Fox Business knows they have no case in court, and by running this debunking video, they can shield themselves from financial liability.

    Do you really believe Elizabeth Warren is going to testify on behalf of Donald Trump's lawyers? You can't be serious.
    By your logic, Al Capone was only guilty of tax evasion. Oj Simpson was innocent of murder.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    By your logic, Al Capone was only guilty of tax evasion. Oj Simpson was innocent of murder.
    Hmmm?

  29. #55
    Fraud is fraud whether it was enough to change the outcome or not.

    A baseball player who commits unsportsmanlike conduct is not going to be given a free pass just because his team eventually loses the game.

    I get so sick of hearing "but it wasn't enough to change the outcome." Okay, so should we just, not care? Because that is what it boils down to.

    If you won't hold them accountable for fraud they committed in this election, I hope you will not care if in 4 years it is some neocons harvesting ballots from dementia wards in nursing homes, or extending the vote deadline until some point when they have finally achieved a majority of ballots in their favor and can finally call it.

    This has major potential to get out-of-hand and if it takes the truth coming out in a lawsuit case to know the truth, then I assure you that Sidney Powell and Lin Wood are not sweating it one bit.

    Maybe it wasn't some widespread national level conspiracy, maybe it was just some average white liberals who volunteered to be poll workers because they have been glued to the MSM for the last four years and based on the 92% negative coverage of Trump, they think he is some spawn of Satan. I can tell you that one side of this debate certainly does not care if there was cheating involved, and I'm not surprised one bit.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 12-25-2020 at 12:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    Some of you still watch the news, and it shows.

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    Hmmm?
    Smugs, all it means is that Joe Biden getting away with election fraud. It doesnít mean he is any less innocent of it it than of all the crimes Al Capone committed or any less innocent than OJ was of murder.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    Smugs, all it means is that Joe Biden getting away with election fraud. It doesn’t mean he is any less innocent of it it than of all the crimes Al Capone committed or any less innocent than OJ was of murder.
    My post was about Fox Business running retraction videos this week, in an effort to shield themselves from financial liability. They don't want to get sued, and have backed down from their statements regarding the election software.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by danda View Post
    because truth matters.

    or do you not agree with that principle?
    If your determining factor as to whether something is or is not the truth is whether it conforms to your preconceived notions, you aren't actually interested in truth and truth does not matter.

    Are you willing to accept the truth if the truth is that there was no substantive fraud, and the election was fairly determined?
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    If your determining factor as to whether something is or is not the truth is whether it conforms to your preconceived notions, you aren't actually interested in truth and truth does not matter.

    Are you willing to accept the truth if the truth is that there was no substantive fraud, and the election was fairly determined?
    If your determining factor as to whether something is or is not the truth is whether it conforms to your preconceived notions, you aren't actually interested in truth and truth does not matter.

    Are you willing to accept the truth if the truth is that there was no substantive fraud, and the election was fairly determined?

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    If your determining factor as to whether something is or is not the truth is whether it conforms to your preconceived notions, you aren't actually interested in truth and truth does not matter.

    Are you willing to accept the truth if the truth is that there was no substantive fraud, and the election was fairly determined?
    Yes

    If it turns out that Sidney Powell's secret intelligence experts with the power to channel the ghost of Hugo Chavez actually exist and aren't just pro-Trump grifters, and if they have compelling evidence, I'm willing to accept that.
    Last edited by TheCount; 12-24-2020 at 06:47 PM.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

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