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Thread: Trump pardons Blackwater Security Contractors convicted of killing civilians

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    They weren't soldiers, they were civilians themselves protecting other American civilians. You think they should be held to a higher standard then the military, I disagree. Civilians should be allowed to defend themselves whether it's here or on the other side of the world. It has nothing to do with whether or not you believe in the war.
    I think the military should be held to the same standard. But I also understand the mitigating factor of individual members of the military who, unlike these mercenaries, didn't know what they were signing up for and who, unlike these mercenaries, couldn't simply de-enlist without suffering severe consequences.

    Whether or not I believe in a war has everything to do with whether or not that war is just. This should matter to you too. If justice doesn't matter to you, then the moral failing there is your own. And whether or not a war is just has everything to do with whether or not a person should choose to go and fight in it as a mercenary. To call someone a coward for choosing not to fight as a mercenary for an unjust cause makes no sense.

    We are not talking about anybody simply defending themselves. We are talking about people traveling to the other side of the world by choice to attack other people, when they could simply have not chosen to do that at all (and would not be cowards for choosing not to), and then while there, killing innocent people who didn't attack them. If it was also the case that there were other non-innocent people in the vicinity who did attack them, against whom it would have been just to use violence in self-defense, that doesn't justify the use of it against other bystanders, especially since, again, it was the Blackwater mercenaries who chose to travel to the other side of the world to put themselves in a position like this.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 12-24-2020 at 12:58 PM.

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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Yes, if it's not self-defense. Civilian or military makes no difference. Liberals use the word civilian as if it means innocent victim. Civilians can be aggressors, murderers, and terrorists. The fact they were civilians is immaterial, both sides were civilians. We don't try self-defense cases in America by passing guilty verdicts automatically because the dead is a civilian.
    Okay. Let me rephrase my question. If unarmed civilians who weren't attacking those contractors were killed because the contractors recklessly discharged their weapons would you vote for a conviction even if the contractors had reason to believe they were being attacked by somebody somewhere? And this guilty verdict wasn't passed "automatically." They received a trial and by all accounts it was a fair one.
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  5. #33

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Any of the resident Trumpers want to weigh in on this?
    I don't agree with Trump on that.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    If you believe juries are never wrong, and the laws they convict on never unjust, then no one should be pardoned ever.
    Juries are often wrong, usually by acquitting guilty people...

    ...but also, convicted people should often be pardoned, because the underlying laws are unjust.

    However, this isn't one of those cases; these murderers should hang.

  8. #36
    In fact, I have serious beef with these felons not being dead.

    Does no one agree?

  9. #37
    Relevant discussion from 4:55 to 13:35

    HL-97: Trump's "Blackwater 4" Pardon EXPLAINED - Viva & Barnes HIGHLIGHT

    Trump pardoned the "Blackwater 4" and a lot of people were outraged. I realized I knew nothing about the incident that could explain the pardon. Here is the breakdown.

    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
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    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

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  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    In fact, I have serious beef with these felons not being dead.

    Does no one agree?
    I do, but I'm outta rep.

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  11. #39
    This must be coincidence, also. Certainly wouldn't be about clearing the names and reputation of his past employees, as he attempts a reboot.

    'Blackwater is Back' - Erik Prince wants to reboot Blackwater (October 2020, entertaining read)

    The Blackwater founder wants to bring back his company's glory days — and he's campaigning for Donald Trump's help to do it. But he's haunted by past failures and is facing questions about a mercenary fiasco in Libya
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

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