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Thread: Mises Caucus Coup D’Etat

  1. #91
    https://rumble.com/v18kfv8-inside-th...ian-party.html


    Inside the Mises Caucus Takeover of the Libertarian Party
    Supporters say they want to "make the Libertarian Party libertarian again." Critics say they’re $#@!posting edgelords who will destroy the LP from within.
    https://reason.com/video/2022/06/15/...rtarian-party/
    Zach Weissmueller, Nick Gillespie & Danielle Thompson (15 June 2022)

    The Libertarian Party (L.P.) is under new management, tweeted Angela McArdle, shortly after she became the National Committee's new chair at its 2022 annual convention in Reno, Nevada, which was attended by more than 1,000 delegates from around the country.

    "We're obviously at a crossroads right now," McArdle said during a debate for the chair position. "I hate to sound like a scumbag politician…but we are going to move heaven and earth to make this [party] functional and not embarrassing for you. We are going to change the country."

    McArdle, who won her election with about 70 percent of the vote, is part of the Mises Caucus, which swept all the national leadership roles and is now in complete control of the nation's third-largest political party.

    Mises Caucus supporters say they want to "make the Libertarian Party libertarian again," that it should no longer be concerned about offending progressives or Beltway types and shouldn't be afraid to reach out to the coalition that elected former President Donald Trump. McArdle says that the party faceplanted during the pandemic by failing to take a strong stance against lockdowns and vaccine mandates and that its messaging is far too tame and conventional to counter the power of the authoritarian state.

    "If something like a lockdown or a vaccine mandate happens [again], we won't whiff the ball and humiliate ourselves and alienate everyone out there," she said in her acceptance speech.

    Critics say they're $#@!posting edgelords who make controversial statements just to attract attention and that they have no interest in running viable candidates for office.

    "If Angela McArdle becomes chair of the Libertarian National Committee and makes the party welcoming to bigots, the committee she is in charge of will shrivel and die," says Nicholas Sarwark, the chair of the Libertarian Party from 2014 to 2020 and a frequent critic of the caucus.

    The Mises Caucus' namesake is the Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises, but its members are especially influenced by his student Murray Rothbard. Like Mises, Rothbard was a radical capitalist, who, unlike his mentor, favored the complete abolition of the state. Rothbard also advocated forming strategic political alliances with the New Left in the 1960s and then with paleoconservative figures like Pat Buchanan in the early '90s.

    Rothbard was an enthusiastic supporter of Ron Paul's run on the Libertarian presidential ticket in 1988. He wrote that the party had become "increasingly flaky…libertine and culturally leftist" and saw Paul's campaign as a "last desperate attempt" to save the party. But it ultimately failed, in his view, leaving the L.P. "spiraling downward into oblivion." The Mises Caucus likewise looks to Ron Paul as a political role model, pointing to his 2008 and 2012 Republican presidential campaigns (which generated huge crowds and interest in libertarianism). Paul attended a Mises Caucus event in Reno to signal his support.

    "These are the kids who came up in 2008 and 2012 inspired by Ron Paul," says Scott Horton, a popular anti-war radio host, author, and founder of the Libertarian Institute. It was Horton who officially nominated McArdle for the chair position. "Now they've been to college, grown up. They got their own lives and families and things, and they're ready to move in and take the next step."

    As examples of the kinds of bold messages the party should be sending, McArdle points to Paul's famous 2007 confrontation with Rudy Giuliani during a nationally televised Republican presidential debate over the root causes of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and when Paul told a Republican audience in South Carolina that heroin shouldn't be illegal.

    "The priorities of the Mises Caucus have always been basically the priorities of the Ron Paul Revolution," says Dave Smith, comedian and host of the libertarian podcast Part of the Problem, who is also a likely contender for the party's 2024 presidential nomination. "Being anti-war…[and] with inflation raging, I think is a really good time to be sound on [Austrian economics]," he told Reason. "And then, of course, throughout the last two years, just completely opposing the rise of the COVID regime."

    But when does "bold messaging" become counterproductive trolling? It's a line that several high-profile Mises Caucus members and official Libertarian Party social media accounts have struggled to identify.

    "I think bolder messaging is important, but we don't need edgelording," former U.S. Rep. Justin Amash told Reason.

    Amash rode to office on the 2010 Tea Party wave, representing Michigan, and Politico once described him as the "new Ron Paul" in Congress because of his willingness to buck party-line votes on principle. He switched his party affiliation from Republican to Libertarian in his final term, making him the L.P.'s highest officeholder since its founding in 1971. He's not a member of the Mises Caucus but says they've brought new energy to the party and that the important task now is "channeling that energy in the right direction."

    "I don't think [Mises Caucus members] are coming here because they're nationalists or bigoted or any of that stuff," says Amash. "That's not to say that there aren't people within the Libertarian Party, just as there are within the Democratic Party and Republican Party and throughout the whole world who are bigoted and racist…And I think we should call out people like that and we should denounce those kinds of statements. But, do I think that the caucus as a whole is like that? I don't think so."

    The convention was buzzing over an article that had just been published by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) titled, "Mises Caucus: Could It Sway the Libertarian Party to the Hard Right?," and McArdle gave out a mock "Failed Grifter of the Year" award to the SPLC at a Mises Caucus event.

    "The Southern Poverty Law Center, or the Soviet Poverty Lie Center as [historian] Tom DiLorenzo calls it… is the ideological enforcement arm of the regime," Tom Woods told the audience at a Mises-sponsored event at the convention. "And I would want to repel anybody who was clueless enough to treat it as a source worthy of a moment's attention."

    Sarwark booked whistleblower Edward Snowden to speak in a different room at the same time as Woods, he says, in order to give the attendees "an option."

    "I came to the conclusion that there is no magic combination of words I can ever utter that will make somebody who…would put Snowden against me [to] suddenly make him say, 'Oh, I've been wrong about you my whole life,'" Woods told Reason when asked about the double booking.

    Woods is a best-selling author, historian, and host of the immensely popular libertarian podcast, The Tom Woods Show. When asked by Reason what the biggest misconception about him was, Woods replied that it was his association with the League of the South. It's not an organization that "these days…I, nor anybody I know, would join."

    In 1994, Woods attended the group's founding meeting. He maintains that it only later became a neo-Confederate white separatist organization, one which was involved in the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally. In 1994, the League of the South was a group of "nerdy academics" like him, Woods says, and he had no idea what it would later become.

    "I've never apologized for it," says Woods. "The easiest thing in the world for me would be to say, 'I'm so sorry. I joined an organization, or I was at the founding meeting of an organization, that is outside the allowable range of opinion…I'm not sorry because I didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, it was edgy to be in that group, but we never meant any harm to anybody."

    Critics of the Mises Caucus worry that the group won't do enough to keep bigots—the sort of person that might join the present-day version of the League of the South—out of the party.

    "There is a tendency for outsider groups to attract other outsiders," says Sarwark. "That's the nature of entryism into political movements…The only way to stop entryism is to put up clear signs that say 'no bigots allowed.'"

    Dave Smith told a Mises Caucus audience in May 2021, "I speak for everyone in the Mises Caucus when I say it: We reject racism. It's collectivist, toxic garbage." But some delegates at the convention were alarmed that the caucus wanted to strike a sentence from the L.P.'s party platform condemning bigotry as "irrational and repugnant."

    "What is a bigot? No one can agree," says McArdle. "All it leads to is everybody in the party pointing fingers and calling each other a bigot. I believe in freedom of speech. I prefer when people don't say horribly racist offensive things. I think that it's not well-met. It's pointless."

    Mises Caucus founder Michael Heise defended the deletion of the language because "libertarianism isn't about wrongthink. It's about non-aggression, self-ownership, and property rights," and said he believes that the anti-bigotry condemnation fed what he calls a "woke," or "cultural Marxist" agenda.

    "What is happening nowadays with the 'wokeism' is people are using language as dialectics along cultural lines to push for collectivist ends," says Heise. "So back in the day…the Marxist revolutions, they had the dialectics of the rich versus the poor and the owner versus the worker. And they were pushing towards collectivist ends. It's the same ideology that's happening now, but they're pitting cis versus straight and male versus female and trans versus whatever."

    The delegates ultimately voted to remove the anti-bigotry statement. But on the initiative of Spike Cohen, L.P.'s former vice-presidential candidate, they added a new line stating that the party would "uphold and defend the rights of every person, regardless of their race, ethnicity, or any other aspect of their identity."

    The Mises Caucus also succeeded in removing the party's pro-choice plank, which McArdle said was called for because abortion represents "an irreconcilable difference" within the libertarian movement.

    "We tend to push out people who are a little bit more socially conservative," says McArdle. "And I think that there's room in the party for people who are libertine and socially conservative. And I would like them to feel that way."

    Mises Caucus leadership also says it's a mistake for the Libertarian Party to take an unequivocally open-borders stance on immigration. The current platform states that the "crossing of political boundaries" should not be "unreasonably constrained by government," and that language did not change during the convention.

    "When you put open borders, plus pro-abortion in there…it kind of forms a cultural hegemony for one side that might not be indicative of the wider libertarian movement," says Heise.

    Along with Rothbard, one of the biggest influences on prominent members of the Mises Caucus is the political theorist Hans-Hermann Hoppe, who disagreed with the pro-immigration views of Ludwig von Mises. He wrote that politicians have a perverse incentive to let in "unproductive parasites, bums, and criminals" and that "the power to admit or exclude should be stripped from the hands of the central government and reassigned to the states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, residential districts, and ultimately to private property owners and their voluntary associations." Hoppe advocates for "the Swiss model, where local assemblies, not the central government, determine who can and who cannot become a Swiss citizen." Hoppe has also suggested that "democrats and communists" will have to be "physically separated and expelled" from a libertarian society.

    "Open borders and private borders are not the same," says Heise. "But they're both libertarian canon. So…by taking a side on this [in the party platform], we're representing one side and basically pushing out another side or making them feel not represented."

    Like the Mises Caucus, Amash often talks about the decentralization of political power, but he is also insistent upon the central importance of liberalism, or the protection of individual rights even at the hyper-local level of government. He says this idea is foundational to the United States and should be one of the Libertarian Party's core messages.

    "I think that the emphasis should be on getting us back to our roots as a country," says Amash. "What do we believe in as a basic set of principles? And, really, what this country is about is liberalism in the classical sense, the idea that people should be able to free…to make their own decisions about their lives and government, to the extent possible, should just stay out of it."

    On the first day of the convention, guest speaker Snowden made a similar point.

    "Freedom from permission: That is what liberty is," said Snowden. "Just the ability to act without asking, to speak and to write, to do, and to be yourself without getting the paper stamped, without submitting yourself and the completed form alongside it to some central authority."

    While Mises Caucus–endorsed candidates swept all other leadership positions that were up for grabs, there remains a discontented minority within the party, and McArdle says that about 40 members quit after the Mises Caucus took power.

    "The party has been an embarrassment to libertarians for a very long time," says Brianna Coyle, an Ohio delegate who quit the party during the convention. She's clashed with Mises Caucus members online in the past. "I think, quite frankly, it's going to be even worse than it used to be….This is the paleo strategy happening yet again."

    Others are taking a wait-and-see approach.

    "I think it's going to be interesting," says Avens O'Brien, a California delegate who opposed the Mises Caucus' removal of the pro-choice platform language. "I welcome new membership. I welcome change…I think right now there are a lot of complicated feelings from a lot of delegates, and I'm hoping that the people who get elected are willing to work with everyone. And if they are, I think that there could be good things."

    Amash, who is both sticking around and a rumored 2024 presidential candidate, says that he hopes the energy from the Mises Caucus can be channeled in a positive direction that grows the party. He says it should prioritize supporting candidates committed to protecting individual rights.

    "It's not going to be easy to get this party on track," says Amash. "It's an uphill battle. I want to give [the new leadership] the opportunity."

    He says that if the Republican Party sticks with Trump, and the Democrats continue to bring forth disappointing national candidates, it presents "an opening" for the Libertarian Party to draw from both the right and the left.

    "This is maybe the chance of a lifetime over the next couple of years to bring people into the party," says Amash.

    Heise said that delegates disappointed by or anxious about the Mises Caucus takeover should give them a chance to show results, which should be measured not only by electoral success but by party membership growth and donations.

    "By our fruits, you'll know us," he says.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-15-2022 at 04:36 PM. Reason: replaced YouTube with Rumble



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    //
    Saving this to watch later, but damn... It's about time ReasonTV put together a story on this... The biggest thing to happen to the LP in decades and they've been pretty silent except for one inside-baseball Matt Walsh piece.

    I hope this video starts to move past the bad blood.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    THREAD: LP Mises Caucus features in SPLC "Hatewatch" hit piece
    (SPLC "Hatewatch": Mises Caucus: Could It Sway the Libertarian Party to the Hard Right?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    A Response To The Unreasonable - Part Of The Problem #869
    On this episode of Part Of The Problem Dave and Robbie discuss the recent hit pieces on the Mises Caucus.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBX_DjsGu7w
    //

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    [replaced Rumble with YouTube because Rumble videos won't embed more than once on a page at RPFs - OB]

    [Reason] Inside the Mises Caucus Takeover of the Libertarian Party
    Supporters say they want to "make the Libertarian Party libertarian again." Critics say they’re $#@!posting edgelords who will destroy the LP from within.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsgFdPqOAhk
    [Dave Smith] A response to Reason on the Reno Reset
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RkMZ0PB_9c
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-16-2022 at 12:10 PM.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Saving this to watch later, but damn... It's about time ReasonTV put together a story on this... The biggest thing to happen to the LP in decades and they've been pretty silent except for one inside-baseball Matt Walsh piece.

    I hope this video starts to move past the bad blood.
    Ok, catching up on this... The amount of time that Gillespie and ReasonTV spent talking about bigotry in that video - versus the amount of time they spent talking about lockdowns or financial mayhem - tells you the bad blood still exists. It also tells you the point of view and narratives that Reason is most interested in.

    I'll have to watch Smith's response to see if that's where he headed. I really hope Smith points it out and then dismisses it quickly. The MC needs to drop the bad blood, too.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Ok, catching up on this... The amount of time that Gillespie and ReasonTV spent talking about bigotry in that video - versus the amount of time they spent talking about lockdowns or financial mayhem - tells you the bad blood still exists. It also tells you the point of view and narratives that Reason is most interested in.

    I'll have to watch Smith's response to see if that's where he headed. I really hope Smith points it out and then dismisses it quickly. The MC needs to drop the bad blood, too.
    You won't be disappointed on that count.



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    You won't be disappointed on that count.
    Incorrect... Watching it now and he spent 24 minutes talking about it.

    That's disappointing.

    (And..... he's picking it back up again later in the vid)


    Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that he noticed the right point - but hammering on it just isn't productive. The Amash segment of Dave's response struck the right tone, IMO. I wish he'd stick with that tone instead of the internal turmoil.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Incorrect... Watching it now and he spent 24 minutes talking about it.

    That's disappointing.

    (And..... he's picking it back up again later in the vid)


    Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that he noticed the right point - but hammering on it just isn't productive. The Amash segment of Dave's response struck the right tone, IMO. I wish he'd stick with that tone instead of the internal turmoil.
    Not really. Gillespie/Reason are a portent of things to come. They are channeling the same Woke-zombie nonsense that the LP will certainly run into on the national stage 2024. In that respect, it's good practice for them to learn how to swat it down but, on the flip side, Reason has portrayed itself as the "libertarian" media for decades and it's just... not. There's nothing libertarian about Reason except that it calls itself libertarian. And betrayal always hurts worst when it is in the family. And Dave's objection is completely fair -- a supposedly allied media house could have been at least objective in covering the criticism of MC. It's not like anyone else out there is going to be, so what's the harm in one media house at least being objective? The unspoken truth is that all of these "3rd-party"/"libertarian" parties/media have been infiltrated and controlled by the two big parties, going way back. So Reason has nothing good to say about the MC for the same reason the GOP has nothing good to say about the MC. That's why Reason can't even put out an objective piece on the MC. And Dave is absolutely right to rip into them on that point because they either need to take off the mask or act in a manner that is believable for the mask they are choosing to wear. If you're going to play the Judas, at least play the part convincingly.
    Psalm 35:7-10, Psalm 109

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Incorrect... Watching it now and he spent 24 minutes talking about it.

    That's disappointing.

    (And..... he's picking it back up again later in the vid)

    Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that he noticed the right point - but hammering on it just isn't productive. The Amash segment of Dave's response struck the right tone, IMO. I wish he'd stick with that tone instead of the internal turmoil.
    By "on that count", I meant that he addressed the issue regarding which you expressed some concern that he might not attend. That's why I added bold emphasis to that part of the relevant sentence, and not on the remainder of it (in which you expressed hope that he would "dismiss[...] it quickly").

    For my part, I don't have a problem with how much time he spent on it. When you've endured several years of repeatedly being one of the direct targets of scurrilous, increasingly strident, and utterly baseless denunciations of "white supremacist", "rape apologist", et cetera ad nauseam, as Dave and others at the forefront of the MC have been, I don't think it's untoward to spend some time after being vindicated to point out the deceitful and disingenuous absurdity of it all - and of those who (like Reason) seem to want to perpetuate it (even if only by putting inordinate focus on the innuendo, rather than by actively participating in it). Reason was not part of the "internal turmoil" of the Libertarian Party - they stuck their nose in, and they deserve to be called out on their $#@!-stirring BS. It required a clear and forceful answer, and Dave gave one. If he continues giving it, despite Reason, et al. having moved on (assuming they do), then that would be a basis for "reason"able (har-har) complaint.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-16-2022 at 06:03 PM.

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    By "on that count", I meant that he addressed the issue regarding which you expressed some concern that he might not attend. That's why I added bold emphasis to that part of the relevant sentence, and not on the remainder of it (in which you expressed hope that he would "dismiss[...] it quickly").

    For my part, I don't have a problem with how much time he spent on it. When you've endured several years of repeatedly being one of the direct targets of scurrilous, increasingly strident, and utterly baseless denunciations of "white supremacist", "rape apologist", et cetera ad nauseam, as Dave and others at the forefront of the MC have been, I don't think it's untoward to spend some time after being vindicated to point out the deceitful and disingenuous absurdity of it all - and of those who (like Reason) seem to want to perpetuate it (even if only by putting inordinate focus on the innuendo, rather than by actively participating in it). Reason was not part of the "internal turmoil" of the Libertarian Party - they stuck their nose in, and they deserve to be called out on their $#@!-stirring BS. It required a clear and forceful answer, and Dave gave one. If he continues giving it, despite Reason, et al. having moved on (assuming they do), then that would be a basis for "reason"able (har-har) complaint.
    Yeah, I get it...

    Maybe I'm just jaded from my previous experiences in the LP. There's been this constant circular firing squad there dating back to at least the 90's when I was active. There was this overwhelming vibe that when other Libertarians first met you, they were sizing you up to see if you were friend or foe. "Are you my kind of Libertarian or theirs?"

    I've been waiting my whole life for someone to "unite the clans" so to speak. Ron Paul went a long way towards that effort and I'm hoping the MC can take it even further. But they have already won. They have to stop trying to "win" this internal pissing match and direct their fire outwardly. (BTW, saying that Reason is not part of the internal turmoil is like saying MSNBC is not part of the DNC - while that may be technically true, their interests are so aligned that it's impossible to distinguish.)

    Maybe it's just a personal preference, but I would have preferred Dave said something like, "Reason did a piece on the Mises Caucus takeover and while they tried to present a fairly balanced portrayal, they spent the bulk of their time talking about identity issues. Here's the thing... The MC have no interest in bigotry, we denounce racism, sexism and all forms of identity politics because we focus on individuality. Period. That stuff is just a distraction. But here's what Reason didn't talk about..." And then talk about lockdowns, talk about economic destruction, talk about the right to self-defense, talk about individual liberty... You know, things everyone can get behind - even the "loser squad".

    In other words... Rise Above It, Dave!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  13. #101
    Adding this one in...



    This is how you handle Gillespie!!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  14. #102
    Why do libertarians always have to be such tatterdemalions?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Why do libertarians always have to be such tatterdemalions?
    Because substance > style. And because we don't receive enough bribe money to shop Italian.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Because substance > style. And because we don't receive enough bribe money to shop Italian.
    It's not shopping Italian. You can get decent collared shirts, coats, and ties, all at Good Will.

    I think you're right about substance and style. But those things aren't an either/or. When I watch that interview with Heise, before Heise opens his mouth, I already see a guy who doesn't honestly consider what he's doing all that serious.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It's not shopping Italian. You can get decent collared shirts, coats, and ties, all at Good Will.

    I think you're right about substance and style. But those things aren't an either/or. When I watch that interview with Heise, before Heise opens his mouth, I already see a guy who doesn't honestly consider what he's doing all that serious.
    Yeah, doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I appreciate the dropping of pretenses.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I appreciate the dropping of pretenses.
    pre·tense/ˈprēˌtens,prēˈtens/
    Learn to pronounce





    noun



    • 1.
      an attempt to make something that is not the case appear true.






    Appearing to take oneself seriously is only a pretense when one doesn't take oneself seriously.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Appearing to take oneself seriously is only a pretense when one doesn't take oneself seriously.
    Lol - so I guess you take someone wearing a suit as them taking themselves seriously. I take it as a desire to want other people to take them seriously. In other words, putting on an appearance that is appealing to others - pretense.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Lol - so I guess you take someone wearing a suit as them taking themselves seriously. I take it as a desire to want other people to take them seriously. In other words, putting on an appearance that is appealing to others - pretense.
    But again, only a pretense for someone who doesn't think others should take them seriously. If you actually think they should take you seriously, then dressing like you believe that is not a pretense.

    Edit: On the other hand, if someone dresses like they don't care how they look because the want to look like they're dropping pretenses, then that's just another pretense.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 06-17-2022 at 07:36 AM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    But again, only a pretense for someone who doesn't think others should take them seriously. If you actually think they should take you seriously, then dressing like you believe that is not a pretense.

    Edit: On the other hand, if someone dresses like they don't care how they look because the want to look like they're dropping pretenses, then that's just another pretense.


    I always find it's best to judge people by their actions instead of their appearance. But you be you.

    Heise's actions look pretty damned serious to me. He led a successful takeover of the 3rd largest political party in the US. You criticized his appearance on the internet. Pretty sure he wins.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post


    I always find it's best to judge people by their actions instead of their appearance. But you be you.

    Heise's actions look pretty damned serious to me. He led a successful takeover of the 3rd largest political party in the US. You criticized his appearance on the internet. Pretty sure he wins.
    I guess we'll see.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    But again, only a pretense for someone who doesn't think others should take them seriously. If you actually think they should take you seriously, then dressing like you believe that is not a pretense.

    Edit: On the other hand, if someone dresses like they don't care how they look because the want to look like they're dropping pretenses, then that's just another pretense.
    I think you and @CaptUSA are both correct.

    When you know you look good in that suit (or whatever it is), that confidence exudes outwardly to others who then notice you because you're standing tall and walking proud and looking good, instead of schleping around in sackcloth slouched over looking like a bum. IOW, one's "vibration" is raised and is subsequently picked up by others who want to know your secret and will start to observe you or even interact with you.
    Last edited by devil21; 06-17-2022 at 04:39 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  25. #112
    Funny how different the tone is with Amash...



    Still... It's a good interview. I don't necessarily agree with everything Amash says here, but I think it's valuable for all the MC folks to truly listen and understand his take.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Adding this one in...



    This is how you handle Gillespie!!
    Thanks for sharing this. This is the kind of interview I like to watch -- light editing and discussion-based rather than grilling, gotcha-questions and fast, heavy cuts.
    Psalm 35:7-10, Psalm 109

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Funny how different the tone is with Amash...



    Still... It's a good interview. I don't necessarily agree with everything Amash says here, but I think it's valuable for all the MC folks to truly listen and understand his take.
    Amash in one sentence: "Anything but Rothbard!"

    Yes, Justin, Mises was a minarchist. In other words, not libertarian enough. We're aiming for the jugular...



    Last edited by ClaytonB; 06-17-2022 at 05:40 PM.
    Psalm 35:7-10, Psalm 109

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Funny how different the tone is with Amash...



    Still... It's a good interview. I don't necessarily agree with everything Amash says here, but I think it's valuable for all the MC folks to truly listen and understand his take.
    8:00 basically sums it up for me.

    Amash recognizes, accurately, that the vast majority of people have "very different views" than the (new) LP.

    The Mises caucus seems to recognize and accept this fact, and incorporates the truth of that statement into its strategies.

    Amash, on the other hand, wants to continue living in the same fantasy land the LP has been in for decades, and "win elections". (despite the fact the majority of people have "very different views")

    He is right, however - I do not think there is much to be gained from having the LP being merely an organization for education/activism.

    The best course of action is somewhere in the middle:

    I think the focus should be on winning elections, as local as possible, on a nullification/secession platform.

    Even if it means focusing the entire national Libertarian Party on one single county to win the elections there.... if that county has the balls/nuts/cajones to properly nullify federal law and defend it... it could have meaningful changes for the entire country.

    And more importantly, it's an achievable goal. It's within the LP's power to do such a thing.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 06-17-2022 at 06:17 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Trump Jr 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  30. #116
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  31. #117
    Timcast IRL - w/Angela McArdle (new LP national committee chair)
    https://odysee.com/@TimcastIRL:8/tim...lly-declares:4

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Dave Smith: Comedian, Podcaster...Presidential Candidate?

    ”We stand for repealing the entire Progressive Era,” says Smith.

    "You have this white hot culture war, and really the only people who have a solution to the culture war are libertarians," says Dave Smith, a comedian, a podcaster, and one of the most visible faces of the Mises Caucus, which took control of the Libertarian Party at its national convention in Reno this May.

    Smith gained a following in the comedy world with his seat on the raunchy Legion of Skanks podcast, which he's parlayed into a career as a political commentator who often appears on cable news and on podcasts like The Joe Rogan Experience and Timcast with Tim Pool. He regularly sounds off on political issues and intra-libertarian disputes on his own show, Part of the Problem.

    Reason's Nick Gillespie sat down with Smith in Reno to get his take on the Mises Caucus takeover of the Libertarian Party and to discuss his status as a possible 2024 Libertarian presidential candidate.


    https://rumble.com/v195nci-dave-smit...candidate.html
    //

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