How a New Hampshire libertarian utopia was foiled by bears

[Badnon Wissenshaftler]

Just read this, and though I've heard of the Free State Project, I've never heard this story.

My first thought is that libertarians never describe a "utopia" as an end point in their political ideologies. At least, I've never heard that term used.

Also, any time you throw together a clusterf**k, you get a clusterf**k, regardless of your political views.

Have a read. Was this the libertarian "autonomous zone"? Also, I see the project ended in 2016. What happened next?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ngoltz-hetling

[Brian4Liberty]

Utopianism. It always fails.

But I did find it interesting that on top of smearing libertarianism with a bunch of ignorant bums who wanted to form a commune, they also had to throw another smear...

You know, “libertarian” is such a weird umbrella term for a very diverse group of people. Some libertarians are built around the idea of white supremacy and racism. That was not the case with these libertarians. Most of the libertarians that I met were kind, decent people who would be generous with a neighbor in any given moment.

Perhaps they will run an article that exposes the many failures of communist communes, but don't hold your breath on that.

[Invisible Man]

Just read this, and though I've heard of the Free State Project, I've never heard this story.

I don't know what, if any, connection this story has to the Free State Project. But if it has one, it isn't what the author claims. The Free Town Project the article is about did not eventually become the Free State Project, since the founders of the Free Town Project didn't begin their venture until 2004, when the Free State Project had already existed for several years by then.

[Anti Federalist]

Downtown Grafton:



Downtown Seattle:



Where would you rather live?

That said, nothing new in either case, young people from the left or right of this generation are generally slobs.

[cjm]

Downtown Grafton:



Where would you rather live?

Grafton looks good to me! Funny, I just posted a picture comparison on another thread before seeing this.

[Krugminator2]

So basically an article to discredit libertarianism. The two most libertarian places are Hong Kong and Switzerland. They are also two of the fastest growing economies and quite wealthy. The United States was a libertarian country after the Civil War through 1913. Worked very well. Strangely those are never used as examples. It is always these bull$#@! examples of either Somalia or using people like these nihilists who think paying for trash collection with taxes and drivers licenses are tyranny.

[Brian4Liberty]

Downtown Grafton:



Downtown Seattle:



Where would you rather live?

That said, nothing new in either case, young people from the left or right of this generation are generally slobs.

We all know better than to trust the media, but the picture they painted in that article about setting up tents and not properly disposing of waste and trash sounded exactly like every other homeless encampment.

[Badnon Wissenshaftler]

Utopianism. It always fails.

But I did find it interesting that on top of smearing libertarianism with a bunch of ignorant bums who wanted to form a commune, they also had to throw another smear...



Perhaps they will run an article that exposes the many failures of communist communes, but don't hold your breath on that.

It is funny, after viewing the Free State Project website to investigate its origins, I quickly find this statement:

"The FSP does not welcome anyone who promotes violence, racial hatred, or bigotry."

Now, I've seen clearly the communists (BLM/ Antifa) openly supporting racial hatred and bigotry, with the so-called "CHAZ", this last summer, being built around some strange "woke" totem, but it isn't called racism or bigotry then, is it?

[Badnon Wissenshaftler]

I don't know what, if any, connection this story has to the Free State Project. But if it has one, it isn't what the author claims. The Free Town Project the article is about did not eventually become the Free State Project, since the founders of the Free Town Project didn't begin their venture until 2004, when the Free State Project had already existed for several years by then.

Yes, as I investigate the Free State Project website, I see no mention of Grafton or the Free Town Project, though a generic mention is made of "free town projects" that have failed, though these would have been before FSP:

'Having been embedded firmly within the libertarian movement for several years, I was familiar with previous “libertarian nation” and “free town” projects and the reasons they had failed. This, along with my research on secessionism and decentralization, made me think of the state level as a plausible locus for limited-government activism.'

https://www.fsp.org/history/

[Badnon Wissenshaftler]

Where would you rather live?

That said, nothing new in either case, young people from the left or right of this generation are generally slobs.

I'll say this: I think kids, in general, are slobs until they're taught not to be. It is reflective of parenting, and it probably doesn't help much when teenage slobs have kids...

What I also think that never helps with liberty, cleanliness or quality, is the sharing of property. Communism and/or socialism doesn't work and generates the effect seen in your Seattle photo because everything is always "someone else's" problem. But "someone else" doesn't like to clean or fix things that aren't theirs, either. I think everyone here understands that. The article mentions a murder caused by a dispute between roommates. Well, there you have it.

That is, if the events in the article are accurate at all. I'm thinking it a little dubious.

But, if 20 people chipped-in and bought an acre of land then "moved in" to tents, that is most certainly a recipe for failure.

[Brian4Liberty]

I'll say this: I think kids, in general, are slobs until they're taught not to be. It is reflective of parenting, and it probably doesn't help much when teenage slobs have kids...

What I also think that never helps with liberty, cleanliness or quality, is the sharing of property. Communism and/or socialism doesn't work and generates the effect seen in your Seattle photo because everything is always "someone else's" problem. But "someone else" doesn't like to clean or fix things that aren't theirs, either. I think everyone here understands that. The article mentions a murder caused by a dispute between roommates. Well, there you have it.
...

Yep. Everything is someone else's problem. I see this in real life all the time. Leftist neighbor: "I called the city like 20 times, and they won't come out and pull those weeds across the street on city property." My response, "let's get out the weed eaters and go do it". Response: "Eh, it's not my job."

[Badnon Wissenshaftler]

Yep. Everything is someone else's problem. I see this in real life all the time. Leftist neighbor: "I called the city like 20 times, and they won't come out and pull those weeds across the street on city property." My response, "let's get out the weed eaters and go do it". Response: "Eh, it's not my job."

Truly the case, Brain. Many so-called leftists will repeat the Ghandi quote "be the change you want to see in the world", but for them, it means "be a hemorrhoid until someone else fixes things".