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Thread: 'No Vaccine, No Work' - Employers Discuss Making COVID Immunity Mandatory For Workers

  1. #1

    'No Vaccine, No Work' - Employers Discuss Making COVID Immunity Mandatory For Workers

    by Tyler Durden
    12/06/2020


    Public opinion polls from the past couple of weeks appear to show a growing number of Americans are planning to get the coronavirus vaccine, even as Dr. Fauci hinted that the UK's decision to grant emergency approval to Pfizer's mRNA vaccine might have been somewhat "rushed".

    A recent Goldman research note intended for its institutional clients showed as much, citing polling numbers from YouGov.





    With hospitalizations surging to record levels and California once again heading into lockdown, millions of Americans would probably gladly take the vaccine just to feel a sense that the pandemic is "over", even though the duration of that immunity is still not very well understood, and some "conspiracy-minded" skeptics have raised question about the headline efficacy numbers.

    But as the US and UK prepare to start delivering the first jabs in a week, industries are jockeying to try and get their workers designated as "essential" so they can have faster access to the vaccine (for many, profits are ultimately on the line).

    Even though many Americans believe it's morally reprehensible to fire someone for refusing to take a vaccine, some companies and industry groups are planning to require workers to be vaccinated as a precondition for returning to work. Maybe they think taking such a public stand might help them secure supplies for their vaccines more quickly.





    Whatever the reason, even for white collar workers who have been comfortably ensconced in their homes/apartments for the last nine months, the subtext is pretty clear: no vaccine, no work.

    Here's more from the Hill:


    Companies will soon face a tough decision about whether to require their employees to get vaccinated for COVID-19 as a condition for returning to work.

    […]

    Employers believe they are on firm legal ground to mandate vaccinations, but that doesn't mean enforcement won't be without its challenges, particularly given the backlash in some parts of the country to mask mandates and smaller groups opposed to vaccinations of any kind.


    However, many corporations might soon find that their workers (not just blue-collar manufacturing workers, but white-collar office drones, too) either don't share their concerns, can't get their hands on a vaccine or are simply skeptical of the long-term side effects and would prefer to simply wait and see.

    Fortunately for these workers, US law offers a way to push back.



    Companies can require it, yes, but they may bump up against legal limits. COVID is such uncharted territory that as we see employers acting, as we see others acting, more edges in the law are being articulated,” said Allison Hoffman, University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School professor.

    Some business groups are starting to get out in front of the issue by voicing public support for vaccination requirements.

    Jay Timmons, CEO of the National Association of Manufacturers, stressed that the vaccine is needed to protect essential personnel, including manufacturing workers, and that his group would back member companies implementing vaccination requirements.

    “While there are likely legal concerns with blanket mandates, if any of our members believed that a requirement at their company was the right thing to do, we would certainly support that within the bounds of the law.

    Because America's future depends on folks rolling up our sleeves in a new way,” Timmons told The Hill.

    The legal limits that employers could run up against are related to the American Disabilities Act (ADA) and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which allow for employee vaccination exemptions under certain health and religious reasons.

    The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in March said an employer covered by the ADA and Title VII can’t compel all of its employees to take a vaccine.

    "The Commission continues to closely monitor the developments of a COVID-19 vaccine and is actively evaluating how a potential vaccine would interact with employers’ obligations under the Americans with Disabilities Act, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the other laws the Commission enforces,” Christina Saah Nazer, an EEOC spokeswoman, told The Hill.



    Last week, Joe Biden - who vowed during the debates to make masks mandatory nationwide - switched it up and said he wouldn't make vaccines mandatory for every, just like he wouldn't "demand" vaccinations be made mandatory. The UK's Boris Johnson has pledged not to mandate vaccinations, and other world leaders have as well.

    But let's back up for a second: some kind of federal edict mandating vaccinations isn't the only method for coercing the entire population to accept them. Oftentimes, political leaders - for whatever their reasons - will opt instead for a more subtle approach.

    If those who refuse to get the vaccine can't work, can't shop and are effectively excluded from society, then can we honestly say that vaccinations are really "voluntary"?

    And what does this mean for workers who simply find themselves shut out as the rich and connected shove their way to the front of the line?



    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/no...datory-workers
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/politica...y-for-workers/
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer



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  3. #2
    Every time I bitched about mega corps tyrannizing people and employees by mandating drug tests, banning guns, mandating exercise programs, trampling free speech rights, facilitating TSA tyranny or a million other ways Super Mega Hyper Corp Intl. can oppress a citizenry, I ended up being called a statist fool and that private corps can set whatever policies they damn well please, and it's up to me to find an alternative supplier/vendor/platform regardless of the fact that they have all adopted the same policy.

    The idea that big business can oppress you just as fast as big government seems to me to be a universal truth...one that could have been common ground to both left and right, at least until the left made it clear they are just interested in destruction.

    How are employer mandated vaccines any different?
    "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid." - Valery Legasov

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Every time I bitched about mega corps tyrannizing people and employees by mandating drug tests, banning guns, mandating exercise programs, trampling free speech rights, facilitating TSA tyranny or a million other ways Super Mega Hyper Corp Intl. can oppress a citizenry, I ended up being called a statist fool and that private corps can set whatever policies they damn well please, and it's up to me to find an alternative supplier/vendor/platform regardless of the fact that they have all adopted the same policy.

    The idea that big business can oppress you just as fast as big government seems to me to be a universal truth...one that could have been common ground to both left and right, at least until the left made it clear they are just interested in destruction.

    How are employer mandated vaccines any different?

    AF, I agree. I responded in the other thread:

    Because it is not a true Free-market system. The government either requires companies to to follow government dictate, or simply not permitted to exist. What is happening is a result of multi-lateral agreements, in this case, companies making contracts with the government, and because of corporation status, must abide by government stipulation.

    This, is Fascism.
    Last edited by PAF; 12-07-2020 at 11:16 AM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  5. #4
    So are the workers willing to take the risks from the side effects that these vaccines might have even the worst side effect?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    So are the workers willing to take the risks from the side effects that these vaccines might have even the worst side effect?
    Better yet, are the employers willing to accept full liability for any adverse effects on any of their employees?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Better yet, are the employers willing to accept full liability for any adverse effects on any of their employees?

    They don't understand how everything fell into place to begin with. I don't see how they would understand that full liability would fall upon themselves. Nobody I speak to is even aware of what PREP Act is or does - they never heard of it.

    PREP Act would not be a bad thing - IF corporation status and government contracts did-not-exist.

    Edit to say, employers are also exempt, according to the revised PREP Act of 2020.
    Last edited by PAF; 12-07-2020 at 11:35 AM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  8. #7
    Coincidentally, someone I know that works in a small company just informed me that their HR person is advocating that the company mandate the vaccine for all employees.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Coincidentally, someone I know that works in a small company just informed me that their HR person is advocating that the company mandate the vaccine for all employees.
    My employers already published the letter last Wednesday that it will be mandated upon arrival. I informed upper-management that I will not be taking any vaccine, and that that is NON-negotiable.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Better yet, are the employers willing to accept full liability for any adverse effects on any of their employees?
    That has to be weighed against the liability of employees catching COVID-19 when the employer was not following government recommended "best practices."
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Every time I bitched about mega corps tyrannizing people and employees by mandating drug tests, banning guns, mandating exercise programs, trampling free speech rights, facilitating TSA tyranny or a million other ways Super Mega Hyper Corp Intl. can oppress a citizenry, I ended up being called a statist fool and that private corps can set whatever policies they damn well please, and it's up to me to find an alternative supplier/vendor/platform regardless of the fact that they have all adopted the same policy.

    The idea that big business can oppress you just as fast as big government seems to me to be a universal truth...one that could have been common ground to both left and right, at least until the left made it clear they are just interested in destruction.

    How are employer mandated vaccines any different?
    Yeah. I'm against mandatory vaccines. Your against mandatory vaccines. @PAF is against mandatory vaccines. Now....what's your plan to fight them? Have faith in the plan of the man who went along with shutting down the country over COVID and privately told Bob Woodward it was worse than what he was publicly saying and who drove the "warp speed" engines to get the vaccine created in less than a year while saying the military will distribute it? Is your plan help mount legal challenges to make sure the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which is widely vilified here, is applied to vaccines? Is it to compile a list a vaccine and not vaccine mandating companies an organize support for the good and boycotts of the bad? Or do we just rail to each other against what we are all against?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  13. #11
    I'll repost what I said in Madison320's thread.

    Mandating the COVID vaccine through businesses is exactly what the government intends to do. They'll tell every business owner that if they want to hire new people or keep the employees they currently have, they must get the COVID vaccination. Any business owner that refuses will have their business destroyed, they will not be allowed to start a new one, and they will be black balled from ever holding another job.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Coincidentally, someone I know that works in a small company just informed me that their HR person is advocating that the company mandate the vaccine for all employees.
    Looks like everyone is making the same mistakes as they did with the Swine flu vaccinations history is forgotten. I am feeling that 2021 will be a year full of massive lawsuits.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Looks like everyone is making the same mistakes as they did with the Swine flu vaccinations history is forgotten. I am feeling that 2021 will be a year full of massive lawsuits.
    How, with PREP Act, providing blanket immunity?

    "I am sorry, your request cannot be processed and is hereby void. Didn't you read The Law before you willingly took the vaccine?"
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    How, with PREP Act, providing blanket immunity?

    "I am sorry, your request cannot be processed and is hereby void. Didn't you read The Law before you willingly took the vaccine?"
    This is why these vaccines shouldn't be forced on anyone.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    This is why these vaccines shouldn't be forced on anyone.

    https://covid19consent.com/

    @jmdrake
    Last edited by PAF; 12-07-2020 at 01:10 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Every time I bitched about mega corps tyrannizing people and employees by mandating drug tests, banning guns, mandating exercise programs, trampling free speech rights, facilitating TSA tyranny or a million other ways Super Mega Hyper Corp Intl. can oppress a citizenry, I ended up being called a statist fool and that private corps can set whatever policies they damn well please, and it's up to me to find an alternative supplier/vendor/platform regardless of the fact that they have all adopted the same policy.

    The idea that big business can oppress you just as fast as big government seems to me to be a universal truth...one that could have been common ground to both left and right, at least until the left made it clear they are just interested in destruction.

    How are employer mandated vaccines any different?
    Humans have the capacity to oppress other humans regardless of the existence of a government, and many will do so as long as there is a perceived benefit to be had. Even in relatively lawless areas, many businesses are still run by the same kind of human that becomes a politician. I am reminded of early American history in the West as it concerned how miners were treated by the mining companies. I categorically reject the idea that large businesses would suddenly became more humane in the absence of government dictates - the plain truth is that the larger a business gets, the more detached it is from the humans it employs, and the "banality of evil" inevitably kicks in. The reality is corporations are not bothered by government dictates that force their employees to do anything unless there is a financial cost to them. Making employees get a vaccination? No problem for them, because it likely will not cost them a dime.

    I have never been impressed with Libertarians that want to give business owners a blank check because the workers can go elsewhere. The imposition of terrible working conditions or requirements is often a slow process, one began after the worker has arranged their life around the job by creating a family, and that makes the notion of simply "up and leaving" much less tenable than armchair philosophers believe it to be. Practical considerations will usually trump any philosophical consideration in a person's life.

    Ideally, you'd have a system where the culture (not to be equivocated with government) swiftly punishes businesses for treating people awfully. However, that requires a uniformly consistent culture that prioritizes treating people well. The current United States is not even remotely capable of having that kind of cultural consistency. Finally, people need to get over the idea of a "true free market system" - so long as humans remain a species that arranges itself into hierarchies, a "true free market system" will never exist on any kind of scale that matters, and those that do will quickly fold due to outside forces. Nature abhors a vacuum and all markets are held under the thumb of those who wield superior force - government or otherwise.
    Last edited by BSWPaulsen; 12-07-2020 at 02:40 PM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    My employers already published the letter last Wednesday that it will be mandated upon arrival. I informed upper-management that I will not be taking any vaccine, and that that is NON-negotiable.
    Everybody's basically being $#@!ed coming and going. If employers start firing everyone that won't take a vaccine, many of those employers will go out of business for lack of qualified, vaccinated potential employees and the length of time it takes to replace half the staff. The fired staff goes on the government dole and becomes dependents. Win-win for the agenda. Kill more small businesses and get more government dependents. Sounds like checkmate, assuming employers keep insisting on following government decrees.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Looks like everyone is making the same mistakes as they did with the Swine flu vaccinations history is forgotten. I am feeling that 2021 will be a year full of massive lawsuits.
    That’s a thought I’ve had too. The lawsuits and number of symptoms and ailments that will be blamed on these vaccines for years to come will be historic, and record breaking.

    Apparently the powers that be don't care.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Yeah. I'm against mandatory vaccines. Your against mandatory vaccines. @PAF is against mandatory vaccines. Now....what's your plan to fight them? Have faith in the plan of the man who went along with shutting down the country over COVID and privately told Bob Woodward it was worse than what he was publicly saying and who drove the "warp speed" engines to get the vaccine created in less than a year while saying the military will distribute it? Is your plan help mount legal challenges to make sure the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which is widely vilified here, is applied to vaccines? Is it to compile a list a vaccine and not vaccine mandating companies an organize support for the good and boycotts of the bad? Or do we just rail to each other against what we are all against?
    I would suggest a two pronged approach of individual resistance and refusal combined with legal action against corporate entities that mandate vaccination (or any number of other "health" services as a condition to employment).
    "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid." - Valery Legasov

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That’s a thought I’ve had too. The lawsuits and number of symptoms and ailments that will be blamed on these vaccines for years to come will be historic, and record breaking.

    Apparently the powers that be don't care.
    Nope. Running everyone not "in the club" out of business is a big goal. Employees suing employers, employers firing employees, employees going on the gov dole, creating yet another divide-and-conquer wedge issue, etc. Since the vaccine makers themselves already have immunity from liability, as do governments generally, it's the little people destroying each other and all over a pandemic that doesn't even exist.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I would suggest a two pronged approach of individual resistance and refusal combined with legal action against corporate entities that mandate vaccination (or any number of other "health" services as a condition to employment).
    The revised PREP Act of 2020 provides immunity from prosecution. Trump, businessman, knew exactly what he was doing.

    https://www.marsh.com/us/insights/re...-prep-act.html
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I would suggest a two pronged approach of individual resistance and refusal combined with legal action against corporate entities that mandate vaccination (or any number of other "health" services as a condition to employment).
    So basically you've just endorsed the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Okay. Just be consistent about it. Now what's your opinion of the Orange Monkey having pushed to have the U.S. Military distribute the damned vaccine?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Better yet, are the employers willing to accept full liability for any adverse effects on any of their employees?
    EXACTLY.

    How is an employer going to deal with the issue of INFORMED CONSENT.

    If an employer uses duress - employment vs unemployment- and the employee is injured who pays?

    How is an employer going to fully inform when they have no idea how a vaccine was made and it’s consequences?


    How is an employer going to get involved in a medical decision without causing a HIPPA violation?

    Fuggedaboutit.

    .

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Nope. Running everyone not "in the club" out of business is a big goal. Employees suing employers, employers firing employees, employees going on the gov dole, creating yet another divide-and-conquer wedge issue, etc. Since the vaccine makers themselves already have immunity from liability, as do governments generally, it's the little people destroying each other and all over a pandemic that doesn't even exist.
    I can hear the commercials now.

    "Were you injured or lose a family member due to the COVID vaccine? Did your employer force you to get a vaccine? Call Dewey, Scruem & Howe right now. We specialize in COVID vaccine injury. You deserve all the money you are entitled to. We put victims first, and we care about you."
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.


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