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Thread: Should businesses be allowed to require a covid vaccine?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You must spread some reputation around......

    Anyone shilling for the "right" to force a vaccine on you is paving the way for the Mark whether they know it or not.
    Anyone shilling for a president (Trump) who pushed for and funded the "warp speed" vaccine and who said the military will distribute it is paving the way for the mark of the beast whether they know it or not.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    WHY is it so important for you that WE THE PEOPLE be vaccinated?
    Where in this thread did I make the argument that people should get the Covid vaccination?

    This is a freedom issue. You can babble about fascism all you want in every thread. It is an insane argument that can used to justify any market intervention (like this one) whenever it suits your irrational whims.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Where in this thread did I make the argument that people should get the Covid vaccination?

    This is a freedom issue. You can babble about fascism all you want in every thread. It is an insane argument that can used to justify any market intervention (like this one) whenever it suits your irrational whims.
    When are you going to night school to learn the difference between FASCISM and CAPITALISM?

    "Krugminator aka Mr clueless, is now going to argue that although we have a gargantuan regulatory state - Agencies from AAA to ZZZ - that we are nevertheless a capitalistic nation. Go fig

    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Anyone shilling for a president (Trump) who pushed for and funded the "warp speed" vaccine and who said the military will distribute it is paving the way for the mark of the beast whether they know it or not.
    That "MARK" is coming regardless.. of who is sitting in that chair..

    and Mr.Trump "says" a lot of $hit,, has a Clownish manner,, and may even be getting in the way of this crap,,,sideways.

    I have no Doubt that Biden WILL PUSH it.. without any pretense of Voluntary.


    ymmv
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I don't get how his position is anarchy. Seems like a milquetoast, plain vanilla, non-controversial, standard, generic view for anyone who is at all in support of free markets and property rights.

    And yeah, most regulations are anti-freedom. Union privileges, OSHA rules, minimum wage laws, anti discrimination laws, equal pay laws, penalizing employers for not providing health insurance, and probably many I am forgetting all purport to be good for individual against greedy corporations. Are you for those laws? How are those different from using government to restrict employers who determine mandating a vaccine is best for their firms?
    His position is anarchy, because he is stating that any regulation at all is a limit on Liberty, even when it's against fascist corporations that are part of the ruling class. If you can't create any and all regulations, then the whole concept of government, no matter how small is an infraction on liberty.

    All those regulations you mention forcefully impose something on both parties. The idea of conflating this with the banning of an employer forcefully injecting an unproven substance into an employee's vanes with the threat of termination, is intellectually lazy at best.

    Mr. Madison called me a fascist even though he wants to give fascist corporations supreme unmitigated power.
    This is why I'm convinced that most people won't learn until the boot is on their necks. When Mr. Madison goes to the store to buy essential supplies and they ask him for his papers to go in. Remember, only the big mega corporations will be open because all the small businesses are being forced into bankruptcy. He won't be able to buy food for his family, but he can enjoy the "liberty" of his forced vaccine, because it wasn't "the government" that forced him.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    His position is anarchy, because he is stating that any regulation at all is a limit on Liberty, even when it's against fascist corporations that are part of the ruling class. If you can't create any and all regulations, then the whole concept of government, no matter how small is an infraction on liberty.

    All those regulations you mention forcefully impose something on both parties. The idea of conflating this with the banning of an employer forcefully injecting an unproven substance into an employee's vanes with the threat of termination, is intellectually lazy at best.

    Mr. Madison called me a fascist even though he wants to give fascist corporations supreme unmitigated power.
    This is why I'm convinced that most people won't learn until the boot is on their necks. When Mr. Madison goes to the store to buy essential supplies and they ask him for his papers to go in. Remember, only the big mega corporations will be open because all the small businesses are being forced into bankruptcy. He won't be able to buy food for his family, but he can enjoy the "liberty" of his forced vaccine, because it wasn't "the government" that forced him.
    HUH?

    WHAT THE F U C K E T H?

    Yo Vern , the ones who are a danger to liberty are the states - the bureaucracies - which grant corporation powers.

    The corporation are not fascists - the governments which immunize them - or grant them special dispensations are the threat.

    .Capisce?
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    All those regulations you mention forcefully impose something on both parties. The idea of conflating this with the banning of an employer forcefully injecting an unproven substance into an employee's vanes with the threat of termination, is intellectually lazy at best.
    No. It isn't intellectually lazy. They are one for one comparisons. . If you are going to argue forcing employers to buy health insurance ultimately imposes a cost on employees, then you logically have to make the same case for banning a vaccine. If an employer thinks a vaccine will keep people from getting the virus and having to miss work and that benefit outweighs the risks of getting ill and missing work, then a vaccine ban is a fine on the employer which will ultimately make the employees poorer. All the regulations I listed are the same issue.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 12-06-2020 at 12:36 PM.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    No. It isn't intellectually lazy
    You are.

    Until FORCED by the Federal Government edicts,,no employer piss tested anyone in the History of the Damn World.
    And had no reason to until it was mandated.

    I worked in this world before that was even a question.

    I remember when that stupidity got started.. and it has been a net loss for everyone involved.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    No. It isn't intellectually lazy. They are one for one comparisons. . If you are going to argue forcing employers to buy health insurance ultimately imposes a cost on employees, then you logically have to make the same case for banning a vaccine. If an employer thinks a vaccine will keep people from getting the virus and having to miss work and that benefit outweighs the risks of getting ill and missing work, then a vaccine ban is a fine on the employer which will ultimately make the employees poorer. All the regulations I listed are the same issue.
    It's not the same at all. Preventing people from making decisions about their own health because your going to need a stamp on your covid passport. The absurdly of even trying to compare the two is insane and very intellectually lazy. Like I said, if a regulation can't prevent medical decisions being made for you, then there pretty much is no more room for any regulation and a government is deemed unnecessary. This is anarchy. If that's what you want, more power to you. Even I will accept that would be a better solution to today's totalitarianism. Just be honest with yourself if that's what you want.
    Last edited by Matt4Liberty; 12-06-2020 at 02:59 PM.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    HUH?

    WHAT THE F U C K E T H?

    Yo Vern , the ones who are a danger to liberty are the states - the bureaucracies - which grant corporation powers.

    The corporation are not fascists - the governments which immunize them - or grant them special dispensations are the threat.

    .Capisce?
    The government and these corporations are for all intents and purposes the same entities. They write the regulations. Why do you think that they were deemed essential while small businesses were forced to close? This is no different than Dialler Benz, Messerschmitt, Bayer, Bosch, etc... and the influence they had in Germany in the 30s. With this logic, Blackwater providing mercenary services to the military industrial complex is the free market.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You must spread some reputation around......

    Anyone shilling for the "right" to force a vaccine on you is paving the way for the Mark whether they know it or not.

    I repeat, it's not force. It's voluntary. Businesses can't force you to do anything. It's governments that use force.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    His position is anarchy, because he is stating that any regulation at all is a limit on Liberty, even when it's against fascist corporations that are part of the ruling class. If you can't create any and all regulations, then the whole concept of government, no matter how small is an infraction on liberty.

    All those regulations you mention forcefully impose something on both parties. The idea of conflating this with the banning of an employer forcefully injecting an unproven substance into an employee's vanes with the threat of termination, is intellectually lazy at best.

    Mr. Madison called me a fascist even though he wants to give fascist corporations supreme unmitigated power.
    This is why I'm convinced that most people won't learn until the boot is on their necks. When Mr. Madison goes to the store to buy essential supplies and they ask him for his papers to go in. Remember, only the big mega corporations will be open because all the small businesses are being forced into bankruptcy. He won't be able to buy food for his family, but he can enjoy the "liberty" of his forced vaccine, because it wasn't "the government" that forced him.
    Business owners can't force you to do anything. They can only stop employing you. I'm not an anarchist. I believe the government should protect individual rights. Business owners are individuals. They have the same rights as any other individual. It's actually your type of thinking that's ruining our standard of living. The idea that the government can force business owners to hire and fire certain people makes is harder for businesses to make a profit.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    His position is anarchy, because he is stating that any regulation at all is a limit on Liberty, even when it's against fascist corporations that are part of the ruling class. If you can't create any and all regulations, then the whole concept of government, no matter how small is an infraction on liberty.

    All those regulations you mention forcefully impose something on both parties. The idea of conflating this with the banning of an employer forcefully injecting an unproven substance into an employee's vanes with the threat of termination, is intellectually lazy at best.

    Mr. Madison called me a fascist even though he wants to give fascist corporations supreme unmitigated power.
    This is why I'm convinced that most people won't learn until the boot is on their necks. When Mr. Madison goes to the store to buy essential supplies and they ask him for his papers to go in. Remember, only the big mega corporations will be open because all the small businesses are being forced into bankruptcy. He won't be able to buy food for his family, but he can enjoy the "liberty" of his forced vaccine, because it wasn't "the government" that forced him.
    Suppose your neighbor hires a guy to cut his grass every week. Then he finds out the grass cutter is gay and since he's deeply religious he fires him. Using your logic is your neighbor "forcing" the grass cutter to go straight? Should the government step in and use force (real force) to make your neighbor keep employing the gay grass cutter? After all being gay has no effect on how he cuts grass and is on his own time, right?

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    That "MARK" is coming regardless.. of who is sitting in that chair..

    and Mr.Trump "says" a lot of $hit,, has a Clownish manner,, and may even be getting in the way of this crap,,,sideways.

    I have no Doubt that Biden WILL PUSH it.. without any pretense of Voluntary.


    ymmv
    Biden has no clue of what is going on from one day to the next. But that's irrelevant to the point I am making. Trump set the stage for the military distributed warp speed vaccine. He didn't just "say" it. He freaking funded it. It's already being distributed and Biden ain't even president yet. And yes, the mark is coming regardless, but it has nothing to do with whether or not a private business decides you can't come in the door without a vaccine. That's just a ridiculous twisting of the meaning of Revelation 13.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Biden has no clue of what is going on from one day to the next. But that's irrelevant to the point I am making. Trump set the stage for the military distributed warp speed vaccine. He didn't just "say" it. He freaking funded it. It's already being distributed and Biden ain't even president yet. And yes, the mark is coming regardless, but it has nothing to do with whether or not a private business decides you can't come in the door without a vaccine. That's just a ridiculous twisting of the meaning of Revelation 13.
    Lord of Mercy , the crazies are coming out of the woodwork

    Since , at least , February 2020

    The Deep State Cabal, the Fake News Media aka the SEE BS Network and the Demo Rats have been scaring the f u c k out of Americans with b u l l s h i t about covid19.

    All the hype In order for BigPharma to rake in gazillions selling a dangerous poison and

    tanking the economy, putting 35 million Americans out of work, forcing thousands of companies into bankruptcy & hoping that Americans take out their anger on President Trump.

    And of course , the real mission of the hoax: FORCE THE STATES TO ADOPT MAIL IN BALLOTS.

    With , at least 150,000,000 Americans , scared s h i t l e s s and gullible enough to believe all that crap what is President Trump supposed to do ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?


    .
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    Lord of Mercy , the crazies are coming out of the woodwork

    Since , at least , February 2020

    The Deep State Cabal, the Fake News Media aka the SEE BS Network and the Demo Rats have been scaring the f u c k out of Americans with b u l l s h i t about covid19.

    All the hype In order for BigPharma to rake in gazillions selling a dangerous poison and

    tanking the economy, putting 35 million Americans out of work, forcing thousands of companies into bankruptcy & hoping that Americans take out their anger on President Trump.

    And of course , the real mission of the hoax: FORCE THE STATES TO ADOPT MAIL IN BALLOTS.

    With , at least 150,000,000 Americans , scared s h i t l e s s and gullible enough to believe all that crap what is President Trump supposed to do ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?


    Not Fund Them.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Not Fund Them.
    Well, as a Libertarian, I fully concur, President Trump shouldn’t have given BigPharma the grant nor buy the vaccines from them.

    But as indicated , above , that would have been a huge political disaster . I can not think of a worse nightmare than another FDR II, A President Biden administration.

    RealPolitik

    Sad

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    Well, as a Libertarian, I fully concur, President Trump shouldn’t have given BigPharma the grant nor buy the vaccines from them.

    But as indicated , above , that would have been a huge political disaster . I can not think of a worse nightmare than another FDR II, A President Biden administration.

    RealPolitik

    Sad

    Which reinforces my position. Why have parties, elections, presidents, at all.


    @CCTelander @devil21
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    Well, as a Libertarian, I fully concur, President Trump shouldn’t have given BigPharma the grant nor buy the vaccines from them.

    But as indicated , above , that would have been a huge political disaster . I can not think of a worse nightmare than another FDR II, A President Biden administration.

    RealPolitik

    Sad
    Your horrible grasp of english is a pretty major nightmare. *sniff* I smell another foreign shill account pushing a narrative.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Which reinforces my position. Why have parties, elections, presidents, at all.


    @CCTelander @devil21
    And until you find a solution- dissolving the gargantuan welfare/warfare police state - we are forced to elect the lesser of evils.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    And until you find a solution- dissolving the gargantuan welfare/warfare police state - we are forced to elect the lesser of evils.
    Not I.

    I will never consent to Communism or Fascism.

    An Agorist Primer Page 46, then start at the beginning.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    Lord of Mercy , the crazies are coming out of the woodwork

    Since , at least , February 2020

    The Deep State Cabal, the Fake News Media aka the SEE BS Network and the Demo Rats have been scaring the f u c k out of Americans with b u l l s h i t about covid19.

    All the hype In order for BigPharma to rake in gazillions selling a dangerous poison and

    tanking the economy, putting 35 million Americans out of work, forcing thousands of companies into bankruptcy & hoping that Americans take out their anger on President Trump.

    And of course , the real mission of the hoax: FORCE THE STATES TO ADOPT MAIL IN BALLOTS.

    With , at least 150,000,000 Americans , scared s h i t l e s s and gullible enough to believe all that crap what is President Trump supposed to do ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?


    .
    Uh....it was Trump who declared a state of emergency over the Covid crap- and it was Trump who ordered Warp Speed & funded the vax through mega Gates corps- and it was Trump who said he use the military to get the vax out.


    @jmdrake
    Just saw this- pretty much what I just said.
    Anyone shilling for a president (Trump) who pushed for and funded the "warp speed" vaccine and who said the military will distribute it is paving the way for the mark of the beast whether they know it or not.
    Last edited by Ender; 12-06-2020 at 09:06 PM.
    There is no spoon.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Not I.

    I will never consent to Communism or Fascism.

    An Agorist Primer Page 46, then start at the beginning.
    I’ll be darned.

    So when you are confronted by , let’s say , TSA agents , you tell them that you don’t recognize their authority and they let you go through unmolested.

    Amazing.

    I haven’t tried that yet.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Uh....it was Trump who declared a state of emergency over the Covid crap- and it was Trump who ordered Warp Speed & funded the vax through mega Gates corps- and it was Trump who said he use the military to get the vax out.

    Yes. But Trump was sent. By God.

    Or so the republicans tell me.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    I’ll be darned.

    So when you are confronted by , let’s say , TSA agents , you tell them that you don’t recognize their authority and they let you go through unmolested.

    Amazing.

    I haven’t tried that yet.

    To reiterate, Page 46 first, then start at the beginning.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    I’ll be darned.

    So when you are confronted by , let’s say , TSA agents , you tell them that you don’t recognize their authority and they let you go through unmolested.

    Amazing.

    I haven’t tried that yet.
    Engaging with TSA is a choice, not a requirement.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Uh....it was Trump who declared a state of emergency over the Covid crap- and it was Trump who ordered Warp Speed & funded the vax through mega Gates corps- and it was Trump who said he use the military to get the vax out.
    Uh........Really?

    Wasn’t he forced to do that when the Fake News Media aka The SEE BS Network started treating Fauci like he was deity?!?!?!?!!!

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    Uh........Really?

    Wasn’t he forced to do that when the Fake News Media aka The SEE BS Network started treating Fauci like he was deity?!?!?!?!!!
    There is an awful lot missing, because he such a good fascist-democrat, but this short piece should provide some insight. Read it, before getting back to me.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-On-The-Record
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    Uh........Really?

    Wasn’t he forced to do that when the Fake News Media aka The SEE BS Network started treating Fauci like he was deity?!?!?!?!!!
    Oh, yeah, I forgot the side-right-group-think:

    If Trump does something evil or anti-freedom, he's being forced; if any leftie does something evil or anti-freedom, he's a communist.
    There is no spoon.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Oh, yeah, I forgot the side-right-group-think:

    If Trump does something evil or anti-freedom, he's being forced; if any leftie does something evil or anti-freedom, he's a communist.

    But that’s what keeps their system alive! Until they “self-dissolve”, of course ;-)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

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