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Thread: What gun control could Biden enact in his first 100 days?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    I'll grant you the bump stock ban, but - talking Realpolitik for a moment - that was a pretty easy one to give in on. It came on the heels of Las Vegas.

    Bump stocks aren't really a thing. To legitimate gun owners, it's largely ineffectual. Again, from a purist standpoint, I agree... but let's not pretend that bump stocks are a real, practical 2A issue to firearms owners. It's not like we're talking about red dot scopes, adjustable stocks or "high capacity" magazines. Bump stocks are a toy.
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    That wasn't legislation. It was an executive act. It was also so narrow that barely any gun owners were affected, let alone prosecuted.
    Doesn't matter. None of it was Constitutional, and it sets precedent for the next guy to do the same, or worse. Not to mention it moves the issue in the wrong direction and caves to the gun grabbers. Trump is weak on the issue.
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  3. #32
    I think you are all getting worked up for no reason. I don't think Biden will do anything on gun control.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I think you are all getting worked up for no reason. I don't think Biden will do anything on gun control.
    Still need to walk back the Grievous law already on the books,, and those proposed in several states.

    Biden has only promised MORE.

    Just another GOOD Reason to keep him out of the Office.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
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  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Doesn't matter. None of it was Constitutional, and it sets precedent for the next guy to do the same, or worse.
    Are you assuming that a precedent was needed? The executive has been power grabbing since 1790 without precedent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Not to mention it moves the issue in the wrong direction and caves to the gun grabbers. Trump is weak on the issue.
    Outside of a minor ATF regulation adjustment, how has he been weak?

  7. #35
    I'm not really worried about it. I've seen the size of 2nd amendment supports at State houses. At this point a million Armed man march on Washington would not be beyond reason.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Are you assuming that a precedent was needed? The executive has been power grabbing since 1790 without precedent.
    Wrong. They don't break a lot of new ground at a time, just an inch or so here and there. And they always point to the previous guy as precedent for what they are doing.



    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Outside of a minor ATF regulation adjustment, how has he been weak?
    He suggested red flag laws and gave cover to the enemy.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Wrong. They don't break a lot of new ground at a time, just an inch or so here and there. And they always point to the previous guy as precedent for what they are doing.
    Okay, so what was the precedent that Trump followed in order to ban bump stocks? He never quoted any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    He suggested red flag laws and gave cover to the enemy.
    Trump also said he would light the entire Korean Peninsula on fire. Trump says a lot of things. If you think the enemy needs Trump's cover to advocate for red flag laws, you are living in a fantasy world.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I'm not really worried about it. I've seen the size of 2nd amendment supports at State houses. At this point a million Armed man march on Washington would not be beyond reason.
    Can you Imagine the Last Crowd ..The Sea of Supporters,, all Armed.



    and then imagine it happening in every State Capitol.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I think you are all getting worked up for no reason. I don't think Biden will do anything on gun control.
    Yep, seems legit, nothing to see here folks....

    Biden team has already reached out to ATF with an eye towards banning 80% receivers and pistol braces already owned by MILLIONS of law-abiding Americans


    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-...m-braces.html#
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  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Trumps anti-gun MOVE came on the heels of LV. No one was clamoring for gun control measures before that. After LV, his base was willing to give, due to the magnitude of that tragedy.
    I am not a time traveler, but maybe you and I are from alternative universes because I cannot think of a year in recent memory where somebody wasn't pushing for gun control. Or have you forgotten Sandy Hook or the Parkland Massacre?

    Biden stood arm-in-arm with Beto, who as we recall said "hell yes I'm coming for your AR-15", and said he'll appoint him to "handle the gun issue".
    And Trump threw the NRA under the bus and hinted at supporting an assault weapons ban. So your point is...?



    By the way, this is the SECOND time Trump went on record supporting an assault weapons ban. The first time was in 2002 in his book "The America You Deserve." Trump thinks you "deserve" a for your assault weapons to be taken away. And here is the danger. A Biden will go full bore supporting gun control and pretty much the entire GOP will be reflexively against him. Trump got RAND PAUL to go a long (temporarily) with red flag laws! Why do you not understand how that is a bigger threat? The dems are expected to be for gun control. You just need a handful of republicans to go along with it and its game over. You know why we have a machine gun ban? It wasn't because of Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. It was because of Ronald Wilson Reagan.

    To compare Obama to Trump to Biden is not just apples to oranges, but it's also to do so while time-traveling.
    To NOT compare them is to ignore obvious facts, like the fact that after the Parkland shooting Trump put up the "let's have another assault weapons ban" trial balloon. (See: https://www.sfgate.com/nation/articl...s-12717961.php) It also requires you to ignore the fact that Trump put up the "red flag law" trial balloon. I hadn't even heard of red flag laws before Trump brought them up. I know the existed before that, but that was not something mainstream politicians were pushing on the national stage. Then Rand freaking Paul gave lip service to the idea! That should scare you. No. It should freaking terrify you. Rand had the good sense to back away from the idea. But you just need a handful of GOP senators to say "Hey....maybe we out to think of doing that" for it to become law. (See: https://spectrumnews1.com/ky/lexingt...-red-flag-laws)

    This is a good and fair point. However I don't think it takes the precedent of the bump stock ban to give the incoming administration the capital to implement their executive order. The justification will come from their proclaimed mandate (which clearly doesn't exist). Put simply, I think the incoming administration will act on gun control because of their base, not because of precedent. To my knowledge (and I could be wrong) I don't believe the bump stock ban was presented before a court.
    In March 2020, the United States Supreme Court refused to hear a challenge to a bumpfire stock ban that was upheld in federal court.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...k-ban-n1147031

    So yes, it has been before the court (all the way up to the SCOTUS), and so far our side has not been winning. Here is the absolute latest.

    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...h-Circuit.html

    Washington, D.C., Nov. 25, 2020 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- The U.S. District Court for the Western District of Texas rendered a decision on Tuesday in the case of Michael Cargill v. William Barr, et al., concluding that NCLA client Michael Cargill of Austin, Texas is not entitled to legally possess a bump stock because bump stocks have always been “machineguns” under federal law. NCLA is seeking to overturn the federal ban on bump stocks issued Dec. 26, 2018 by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and to halt its enforcement, because NCLA believes federal agencies do not have the power to alter federal statutes. NCLA believes that if the federal government wants to outlaw bump stocks, Congress has to do it.

    In its ruling the court found that even without reliance on Chevron judicial deference, the “Defendants’ interpretations of the terms ‘single function of the trigger’ and ‘automatically’ in the statutory definition of ‘machinegun’ properly include bump stocks within that definition.” The court reached the conclusion that the statutory language is not vague or ambiguous, even though ATF itself interpreted the language completely differently for well over a decade. In 2010 the ATF conducted a physical examination and test-fire of the Slide Fire bump stock and determined that it “was not regulated as a firearm under the Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act.” But after the tragic massacre in Las Vegas, Nevada in October of 2017, ATF contradicted its own prior interpretation of the law and disregarded its substantive expertise in the mechanics and operation of firearms in order to alter federal criminal law and ban bump stocks. Because the court decided that the statute is clear, it also refused to apply the rule of lenity in favor of Mr. Cargill.

    The Court also held that the Final Rule, which turned an estimated 520,000 bump stock owners around the country into felons overnight, is a “validly issued legislative rule” that does not violate principles of non-delegation or separation of powers. Even the government admitted that the rule was not a legislative rule. NCLA contends that allowing ATF to criminalize bump stocks with its Final Rule exceeds both core constitutional limits on Congress’s ability to delegate legislative power and violates the separation of powers. Because it involves determining the scope of criminal liability, NCLA argues that only Congress could ban the possession of bump stock devices. ATF’s purported exercise of that authority is therefore unconstitutional.

    NCLA will appeal the decision in the Cargill case to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. In a related challenge brought by NCLA on behalf of W. Clark Aposhian of Salt Lake City, Utah, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit vacated an earlier panel decision on September 4, 2020, and granted NCLA’s petition for rehearing en banc. NCLA will file a reply in the Aposhian case on Thursday, December 5th.


    So while most of this forum is running around in a panic over whether or not Trump will somehow be able to win the election over fraud, the dangerous precedent Trump set by banning bumpfire stocks through executive order is silently making its way through the courts AND OUR SIDE IS NOT WINNING!

    Now catch the language that's most important in this case:

    In its ruling the court found that even without reliance on Chevron judicial deference, the “Defendants’ interpretations of the terms ‘single function of the trigger’ and ‘automatically’ in the statutory definition of ‘machinegun’ properly include bump stocks within that definition.” The court reached the conclusion that the statutory language is not vague or ambiguous, even though ATF itself interpreted the language completely differently for well over a decade.

    Think this through. Many Trump apologists say "Oh it doesn't matter. I can bumpfire an AR-15 without a bump stock. I can use a belt loop or a rubber band." Fair enough. But that sets the stage for banning large capacity magazines on semi automatic weapons by executive order! How you may ask? Well if a machine gun is any gun that you can fire "automatically" with a "single function of the trigger" that would include an AR-15 that you are bump firing with a rubber band or a belt loop. Of course someone could say "Well what about bump firing a semi automatic shotgun." Well...without a large capacity magazine (or extended shotgun tube), that becomes impractical. Also the magazine receiver is where the rubber band is wrapped around for rubber band bump firing.

    See:



    Belt loop bump firing could be done on a shotgun without a magazine, but as you are literally "firing from the hip" that's even less accurate that a bumpfire stock or rubber band bumpfire. And again with limited capacity that has limited value.

    But hey, what do I know? I'm not a gun nut. Maybe @Anti Federalist can explain why my logic is wrong and why federal courts that have accepted the idea that a bumpfire stock equals a machine gun will nonetheless automagically reject the idea that a gun that can easily been bumpfired just as well with a piece of rubber is not a machine gun.
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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    But hey, what do I know? I'm not a gun nut. Maybe @Anti Federalist can explain why my logic is wrong and why federal courts that have accepted the idea that a bumpfire stock equals a machine gun will nonetheless automagically reject the idea that a gun that can easily been bumpfired just as well with a piece of rubber is not a machine gun.
    Ha, so I guess I'm the resident gun nut now.

    Drake is mostly right here: I'd only say that the courts could easily rule on an "accessory" as opposed to a vital part. A bump stock is not required for a well made rifle to function. A magazine is.

    I think a bigger question here is not why is Trump weak on guns, but rather why was Obama so weak on gun control when he had the upper hand on many occasions?
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  15. #42

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Okay, so what was the precedent that Trump followed in order to ban bump stocks? He never quoted any.
    Every time any previous President messed with gun laws via EO.



    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Trump also said he would light the entire Korean Peninsula on fire. Trump says a lot of things. If you think the enemy needs Trump's cover to advocate for red flag laws, you are living in a fantasy world.
    Except that Trump advocated for it and sided with the enemy, gave cover to the enemy, helped push the enemy's agenda, and aided the enemy in passing it in multiple states.

    We want someone who will actually fight FOR our rights, not advocate taking them away. Trump fails on gun rights.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  16. #43
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Every time any previous President messed with gun laws via EO.
    The default position should be that the executive uses unconstitutional power grabs on a whim to accomplish his goals with no precedent needed. You are making the claim that Trump used precedent to ban bump stocks. Lacking evidence for your claim and making generalities does not prove your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Except that Trump advocated for it and sided with the enemy, gave cover to the enemy, helped push the enemy's agenda, and aided the enemy in passing it in multiple states.

    We want someone who will actually fight FOR our rights, not advocate taking them away. Trump fails on gun rights.
    Again, you are making general statements and claiming it is evidence. There is absolutely no evidence that Trump tipped the scale in favor of red flag laws. Every state that adopted such measures while he was President was blue. The only exception was Florida where the Parkland incident happened.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by showpan View Post
    Wrong, he can sign an executive order to immediately ban semi auto's and high cap mags, online sales, gun kits and anything he wants without senate approval. It would then take a lawsuit before the supreme court to block said orders. He can also use an EO for mandatory buyback once the ban is in place while they remake the ATF and give them broad powers to search and seize anyone who does not comply. This is what they have basically hinted at doing. Also, bayonets and knives will also be targeted.
    They won't do that because it's 100% obviously unconstitutional and would have very little public support by itself. President has no executive authority to ban any kind of gun or ammo by decree or mandate a national buyback. They could offer a voluntary buyback like they did with gold in 1933 but there's no legal power to ban by EO or order a buyback by EO. The gold buyback wasn't a confiscation since EOs don't apply to individuals and gold is in the Constitution. Same still applies today regarding guns, also.

    Like before during Obama and the early Trump days, the false flag shootings will suddenly start again, which provides political cover for Congress and state legislatures to pass "new legislation" (meaning already written and waiting for the excuse). Just plain blanket decrees at bans won't fly at all, constitutionally or in society in general, so they'll need new created reasons like shooting up more LGBTQ clubs, schools, etc. They'll probably go really hardcore with the emotional triggers this time to appeal to the proliferation of emotional Covid Karens. Even a fake elementary school shooting didn't move the needle before. What's optically and emotionally worse than that? Whatever you can think of is what they'll try next.
    Last edited by devil21; 12-01-2020 at 04:05 PM.
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  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    They won't do that because it's 100% obviously unconstitutional and would have very little public support by itself. President has no executive authority to ban any kind of gun or ammo by decree or mandate a national buyback. They could offer a voluntary buyback like they did with gold in 1933 but there's no legal power to ban by EO or order a buyback by EO. The gold buyback wasn't a confiscation since EOs don't apply to individuals and gold is in the Constitution. Same still applies today regarding guns, also.

    Like before during Obama and the early Trump days, the false flag shootings will suddenly start again, which provides political cover for Congress and state legislatures to pass "new legislation" (meaning already written and waiting for the excuse). Just plain blanket decrees at bans won't fly at all, constitutionally or in society in general, so they'll need new created reasons like shooting up more LGBTQ clubs, schools, etc. They'll probably go really hardcore with the emotional triggers this time to appeal to the proliferation of emotional Covid Karens. Even a fake elementary school shooting didn't move the needle before. What's optically and emotionally worse than that? Whatever you can think of is what they'll try next.
    Of course he can and would. All he would have to do is cite the nightly shootings in Chicago and NY and declare an "emergency"....lmao.....what planet have you been living on for the last few years. The MSN will simply start covering these shootings nightly for a couple of weeks and then Biden will come out and do a press conference banning everything and....the liberals will LOVE HIM for it!!!!
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
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  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by showpan View Post
    Of course he can and would. All he would have to do is cite the nightly shootings in Chicago and NY and declare an "emergency"....lmao.....what planet have you been living on for the last few years. The MSN will simply start covering these shootings nightly for a couple of weeks and then Biden will come out and do a press conference banning everything and....the liberals will LOVE HIM for it!!!!
    I've been paying attention a long time longer than a few years and what I detailed is exactly how they accomplish everything, or at least try to. Create the excuse to roll out the pre-planned agenda. Always. Here's the ironic part: By and large, they actually do follow the 1871 Constitution and statutes in nearly all instances, even if people don't realize it or are pushed by media fear tactics into voluntarily performing an action that the people otherwise don't have to perform (see: Obamacare "fine" which was actually voluntary, for example). EOs aren't going to do it and such actions would immediately be halted by the courts as grossly unconstitutional.

    To your specific scenario: Not a chance that mere coverage of ghetto drug dealers shooting each other would move the national gun control needle more than the nationally publicized elementary school "shooting", among others, did. Not a chance. Know why? Because even though Karens can be spun up easily by emotional triggers, they don't really care about inner-city black people shooting each other. And good luck getting the right and even the moderate middle of America to care about that enough to put extreme political pressure on legislators nationally to pass the required legislation. They'd need something absolutely shocking. Crack dealers blowing each other away over $20 isn't going to do it. Think about it. They pushed story after story for weeks on end, over the course of 6-8 years, about kids being shot, clubbers being shot, church goers being shot, Vegas concert goers, ad nausem, and none of it built the political capital needed to pass anything. You really think media coverage of drug dealers doing drive-bys is going to do it? lol
    Last edited by devil21; 12-01-2020 at 04:46 PM.
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  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Not a chance that mere coverage of ghetto drug dealers shooting each other would move the national gun control needle more than the nationally publicized elementary school "shooting"
    You are delusional, all it took was for a career criminal high on 4 times the lethal dose of fentynal to OD while lying on the ground under a cops knee to start riots in how many major cities across the U.S.? You obviously underestimate the media and the Democrats promise. If they hand this to Jim Crow Joe, they have already called it a mandate to do whatever they want.
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
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  23. #49

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    There is absolutely no evidence that Trump tipped the scale in favor of red flag laws. Every state that adopted such measures while he was President was blue. The only exception was Florida where the Parkland incident happened.
    That's because you don't know $#@! about how politics works in real life. And yes, Trump's cover absolutely helped get it passed.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
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  24. #50
    I'm just glad gun laws do not apply to me . In case none of you are aware , biden will be the most anti second amendment president ever . Enjoy .

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    That's because you don't know $#@! about how politics works in real life.
    Not an argument. Sorry.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I'm just glad gun laws do not apply to me . In case none of you are aware , biden will be the most anti second amendment president ever . Enjoy .
    He will be the most anti Bill of Rights president ever.

    They, the Marxist left, are going for the whole enchilada here...no $#@!.
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Even a fake elementary school shooting didn't move the needle before. What's optically and emotionally worse than that? Whatever you can think of is what they'll try next.
    I'm guessing Mutant Nazi Zombies with MAC11s

    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  28. #54
    Make no mistake, they WANT you to fall into a Civil War, BUT, theres a catch (there is always a catch), they want to take ALL your guns first, THEN start the Civil War... Like bringing a Limp Noodle to a NUKE FIGHT.
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  29. #55
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  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by showpan View Post
    Not if they win the Senate too. The still hold the house and there are enough Rhino's that will give them whatever legislation they want. The tax increase alone would basically kill the industry. Keep in mind they have already successfully banned Ar's in the past and SCOTUS did nothing about it. You are living an awful smug life in thinking that they won't completely sidestep the constitution that is VERY vague.
    The D's don't need to win GA to pass gun control. They know Mittens that will side with them. He supported the Brady bill and is a true believer in AWB.
    https://www.iberkshires.com/story/14...apons-ban.html
    "Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts,"¯ Romney said, at a bill signing ceremony on July 1 with legislators, sportsmen's groups and gun safety advocates. "These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."
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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by showpan View Post
    You are delusional, all it took was for a career criminal high on 4 times the lethal dose of fentynal to OD while lying on the ground under a cops knee to start riots in how many major cities across the U.S.? You obviously underestimate the media and the Democrats promise. If they hand this to Jim Crow Joe, they have already called it a mandate to do whatever they want.
    K, we shall see I guess. But in some ways, we are on the same page, in that a shocking, staged provocation can elicit a response from the masses. That's how they pull this stuff off in the first place. However, the Floyd video was a big difference from gangbangers killing each other.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

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