Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Ron Paul: Do Elections Matter?

  1. #1

    Ron Paul: Do Elections Matter?

    November 26, 2020




    Published on Nov 26, 2020
    Presented at the Mises Institute's "Symposium with Ron Paul" on November 7, 2020, in Angleton, Texas.

    http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Electing Ron would have mattered.
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Electing Ron would have mattered.
    Yeah....that's why TPTB pulled out all stops to make sure that he couldn't get the GOP nomination. On the flip side, in 2016 Hillary Clinton pulled out all stops to make sure Donald Trump was guaranteed the GOP nomination. That alone should tell you something.

    https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the...iper-strategy/
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Yeah....that's why TPTB pulled out all stops to make sure that he couldn't get the GOP nomination. On the flip side, in 2016 Hillary Clinton pulled out all stops to make sure Donald Trump was guaranteed the GOP nomination. That alone should tell you something.

    https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the...iper-strategy/
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jmdrake again."


    What better person to draw "republicans" in to nationalism (rebranded communism), charging the way into full-blown Fascism, the crony-corporate business man that he is.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jmdrake again."


    What better person to draw "republicans" in to nationalism (rebranded communism), charging the way into full-blown Fascism, the crony-corporate business man that he is.
    What better way to ensure a "strawman" candidate ends up running against you?

    A candidate that every polling group on planet earth said could not possibly win.
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What better way to ensure a "strawman" candidate ends up running against you?

    A candidate that every polling group on planet earth said could not possibly win.

    Oh. You are right. That definitely makes a huge difference. Hip-hip-hooray Trump/we have finally won!

    Gimme a break. You know me better than that, AF; I looked at his past, and his On the Record. If I could not vote for him again, I would do it all over again. Wait, I did!


    Q: Why did the liberty movement fail?

    A: Because even after knowing his past, and On the Record, you guys keep hoping, trying to convince yourselves and others, insisting that he is the greatest president of all time. Freedom and fiscal responsibility are no longer important, let alone mentioned, that was merely a passing in time; ergo 2008/2012. So, you settled for a Globalist-Fascist, and point out little bones that he tosses around to keep you coming back for more. This country got exactly what it voted for - Global-Fascism.

    And to let off a little more steam, it bothers very few, that Trump signed the largest Omnibus in the history of the world, signed that North American Union NAFTA on Steroids, and No New Taxes (Bush Sr), I mean "Fees" (Flip-Flop-Mitt), AWARDED (Trump) Bill Gates-tied companies Trillions of dollars, setting in motion the U.N./Gates Goal.


    But, "A candidate that every polling group on planet earth said could not possibly win." makes the difference, so indeed, "we have won"!
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Yeah....that's why TPTB pulled out all stops to make sure that he couldn't get the GOP nomination. On the flip side, in 2016 Hillary Clinton pulled out all stops to make sure Donald Trump was guaranteed the GOP nomination. That alone should tell you something.

    https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the...iper-strategy/
    Exactly! It was so obvious to me during the whole 2016 campaign- and I was called every name in the book for pointing this out.
    There is no spoon.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Oh. You are right. That definitely makes a huge difference. Hip-hip-hooray Trump/we have finally won!

    Gimme a break. You know me better than that, AF; I looked at his past, and his On the Record. If I could not vote for him again, I would do it all over again. Wait, I did!


    Q: Why did the liberty movement fail?

    A: Because even after knowing his past, and On the Record, you guys keep hoping, trying to convince yourselves and others, insisting that he is the greatest president of all time. Freedom and fiscal responsibility are no longer important, let alone mentioned, that was merely a passing in time; ergo 2008/2012. So, you settled for a Globalist-Fascist, and point out little bones that he tosses around to keep you coming back for more. This country got exactly what it voted for - Global-Fascism.

    And to let off a little more steam, it bothers very few, that Trump signed the largest Omnibus in the history of the world, signed that North American Union NAFTA on Steroids, and No New Taxes (Bush Sr), I mean "Fees" (Flip-Flop-Mitt), AWARDED (Trump) Bill Gates-tied companies Trillions of dollars, setting in motion the U.N./Gates Goal.


    But, "A candidate that every polling group on planet earth said could not possibly win." makes the difference, so indeed, "we have won"!
    Oh lord...how tiresome..."the freedom movement failed because YOU dumbasses did so and so".

    No...look around you.

    The freedom movement failed because people HATE freedom, period.

    If you want freedom it must be seized, forcefully, violently by a committed "do or die" "death or glory" minority, willing to do whatever it takes to achieve that goal.

    Anything short of that is a philosophical Double Dutch Rudder.

    Besides, you missed my point...you suggested nefarious forces placed Trump on the ballot assuming he would win and usher in Trumpist global fascism.

    I changed the POV to suggest that nefarious forces placed Trump on the ballot as a fall guy, a guaranteed loser (that's what I meant by the polling numbers comment) in order to usher in Clintonist fascism.

    That was how I viewed it and voted in 2016...heads I win, tails you lose. And I wrote in Ron Paul.

    But after four years I found that Trump had delivered on some issues of key importance to me, and he got my support.

    Which, given the clearly stated goals of the opposition, should have been every thinking person's vote as well.

    But it's a moot point now, isn't it?

    If the Marxists grab those two Senate seats in GA like it looks they will do, that's it, lights out, game over.

    They will have no effective check on their power, and will use the following two to four years to consolidate it.

    Result? California Uni-Party rule for, well, forever, I guess.
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    On the flip side, in 2016 Hillary Clinton pulled out all stops to make sure Donald Trump was guaranteed the GOP nomination. That alone should tell you something.
    That sounds almost like you’re insinuating that crooked Hillary supported lying Donald 4 president…

    A “conspiracy theorist” might think that the following is suspicious.
    Donald donated to Clinton (and sleepy Joe and Kamala).
    Donald invited the Clintons to his wedding to nude model Melania.
    Donald has been repeatedly pictured at (other) social events with Bill Clinton, for example the infamous golf session with Rudy Giuliani and Michael Bloomberg…


    I’ve even posted about the Mercury (of Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) subcontracting the Podesta Group to “lobby for the Ukraine”(?) in 2012 (this supposedly ended in 2014, when Trump already planned to run for president). But according to some, Hunter Biden’s dirty laundry is more interesting…
    Former FBI director under Bush and Obama, and school friend of Bonesman John Kerry, Robert Mueller “forgot” to investigate if this is suspicious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter
    Even more interesting is the “lobbying” for the European Center for Modern Ukraine (ECFMU) by Mercury LLC (of Manafort and his employee Rick Gates) and the Podesta Group from 2012 to 2014. ECFMU was affiliated with Viktor Yanukovych, who was the president of Ukraine from 2010 to 2014. Yanukovych is pro-Putin and had to flee the country after protesters overthrew his government. He was reportedly helped by Putin to escape to Russia.
    Reportedly Podesta and Manafort had to lobby the message that Ukraine’s 2012 election was really democratic and that the country’s leaders wanted to move further away from Putin and closer to the West.

    The Podesta Group has in the past lobbied for foreign government clients with abysmal human rights records, like Vietnam, Azerbaijan and South Sudan.

    Mercury LLC’s filings with the Justice Department show that its lobbyists, including Ed Kutler (an ally of Newt Gingrich), spent time setting up meetings related to Ukraine issues. One person they introduced to numerous Hill offices and to a senior official at the Export-Import Bank was Sergiy Klyuyev.
    Less than a year after Mercury LLC introduced Klyuyev around the Hill, the EU froze his assets in the wake of the collapse of the Yanukovych regime. Klyuyev was one of more than a dozen Yanukovych allies the EU suspected of embezzling state money. Klyuyev and his brother reportedly also fled to Russia. Sergiy’s brother has been accused of orchestrating mass killings of Euromaidan protesters: http://www.thedailybeast.com/how-dc-...a-putin-puppet
    (archived here: http://archive.is/lRJm1)


    Over $1.5 million has been paid by the Party of Regions to American politicians in 2012 and 2013 alone. The founders of the ECFMU, at that time, were 3 Members of the Parliament from the Party of Regions, who in 2 years since have moved considerably up the power ladder — the current Foreign Minister Leonid Kozhara, the current head of the Budget Committee of Parliament Ievgenii Hiellier and the current head of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Verkhovna Rada Vitaliy Kahlyushnyy.
    The reported budget of the ECFMU (located in Brussels, Belgium) is only €10,000. In 2012, the Belgian mediator paid the American lobbyists 80 times that amount $800,000. In 2013 they have paid American lobbyists 79 times their budget $790,000.
    The Podesta Group, was founded by brothers Tony and John Podesta. John headed the office of President Bill Clinton in 1998-2001, since December 2013 was a senior adviser to President Obama and then campaign chairman for Hillary Clinton. In 2012, 2013 the Podesta Group received $1.02 million from the ECFMU.

    The second company that was hired by ECFMU, is Mercury/Clark & Weinstock, of Manafort and Rick Gates. Mercury is affiliated with ex-Republican congressman John Vincent "Vin" Weber, who was involved in the last presidential election campaign of Mitt Romney. Mercury received $570,000 from Brussels in 2012, 2013.

    What’s bizarre about the ECFMU is that it was first reported to be founded by acting Members of Parliament in the Ukraine: Leonid Kozhara, Ievgenii Hiellier and Vitaliy Kahlyushnyy.
    The surnames of Kozhara, Hiellier and Kahlyushnyy were taken out of the registry, and replaced by former MP Oleg Nadosha, ex-MP Oleksiy Plotnikov and Kseniya Solovyova (born in 1987).

    German Ina Kirsch Van de Vater, was also among the founders for the ECFMU. Ina Kirsch claimed that the ECFMU has no relation to the Klyuyev Foundation (suspected of embezzling state money):
    U.S. companies that cooperate with the ‘European Centre for Modern Ukraine’ have no relation to the Party of Regions. They work exclusively in support of the Center (...) The Center has nothing to do, directly or indirectly, to Klyuyev’s fund.
    Strangely Ina Kirsch “forgot” to mention that her husband Robert Van de Vater in 2014 was a Deputy Board Chairman of the Klyuyev Foundation: http://www.pravda.com.ua/articles/2014/02/5/7012902/
    (archived here: http://archive.is/GhInS)

    The following graph explains this in short.



    Possibly the most interesting from the official document...
    Prosecutors say in:
    total, more than $75 million flowed through the offshore accounts. MANAFORT laundered more than $18 million
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6546021
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    Donald Trump, another puppet controlled by the international elite: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/vie...=1038&start=60

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    That sounds almost like you’re insinuating that crooked Hillary supported lying Donald 4 president…

    A “conspiracy theorist” might think that the following is suspicious.
    Donald donated to Clinton (and sleepy Joe and Kamala).
    Donald invited the Clintons to his wedding to nude model Melania.
    Donald has been repeatedly pictured at (other) social events with Bill Clinton, for example the infamous golf session with Rudy Giuliani and Michael Bloomberg…


    I’ve even posted about the Mercury (of Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) subcontracting the Podesta Group to “lobby for the Ukraine”(?) in 2012 (this supposedly ended in 2014, when Trump already planned to run for president). But according to some, Hunter Biden’s dirty laundry is more interesting…
    Former FBI director under Bush and Obama, and school friend of Bonesman John Kerry, Robert Mueller “forgot” to investigate if this is suspicious.
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6546021
    You remind me of someone else who used to post here. One of the few true muckrakers who doesn't carry water for anyone. Bravo sir.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What better way to ensure a "strawman" candidate ends up running against you?

    A candidate that every polling group on planet earth said could not possibly win.
    Of course. But on top of it she pushed a candidate that was guaranteed not to go after her because he was as dirty as she is.



    She picked a candidate who also pushed the gun control agenda (gun control by executive order with bumpfire stocks, pushing the red flag law trial balloon so effectively that even Rand Paul fell for it, and who pushed for an assault weapons ban in 2002 and later on as president). She picked a candidate who expanded the surveillance state in the name of "border security." (Face scanning cameras at airports and along the border). When it came to COVID-19, Trump was all in on vaccines, he criticized a governor for not locking down enough, he shot the conservative movement in the foot by secretly telling Bob Woodward that he "knew it was bad in January but downplayed it to not cause a panic", he never fired Fauci but just pussyfooted around on it.

    I know you know all of this. My point is Trump for the little good Trump did, he has been one helluva distraction from real advocacy. Look at how much energy on this forum goes to defending Trump's position on hydroxychloroquine, which despite being out of patent is still a pharmaceutical, versus pushing the fact that tried and true supplements without the dangerous side effects are undeniably effective! I guarantee you that you are better off taking a combo of vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc, NAC and melatonin than you are hydroxychlorquine. But anything pushed by Trump becomes clouded by politics both pro and con. You know what's funny? I heard a right wing talk show host just this morning attacking Democrat governors for questioning the safety of the new Pfizer vaccine. I get it. The Dems wouldn't be questioning this if Hillary had been president. But shouldn't the efficacy of a rushed vaccine backed by Bill Gates that may have fetal tissue in it be questioned? The "I gotta back it because it came from Trump" mentality is just as dangerous as the "I gotta be against it because it came from Trump" mentality.

    Anyhow, the deck was stacked in 2016 and they doubled down on stacking in 2020. Yeah it's terrible. At some point I'd rather just play a different game. And no not the "Let's have a civil war" or "Let's secede" game. Sorry but I have no more trust in the vast majority of the 70 plus million that voted for Trump than you have in the 70 plus million that voted against him. Jeff "asset forfeiture" Sessions not only voted for Trump, he was part of the freaking cabinet. Same with John "reject peace with Iran at all costs" Bolton.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Of course. But on top of it she pushed a candidate that was guaranteed not to go after her because he was as dirty as she is.

    She picked a candidate who also pushed the gun control agenda (gun control by executive order with bumpfire stocks, pushing the red flag law trial balloon so effectively that even Rand Paul fell for it, and who pushed for an assault weapons ban in 2002 and later on as president). She picked a candidate who expanded the surveillance state in the name of "border security." (Face scanning cameras at airports and along the border). When it came to COVID-19, Trump was all in on vaccines, he criticized a governor for not locking down enough, he shot the conservative movement in the foot by secretly telling Bob Woodward that he "knew it was bad in January but downplayed it to not cause a panic", he never fired Fauci but just pussyfooted around on it.

    I know you know all of this. My point is Trump for the little good Trump did, he has been one helluva distraction from real advocacy. Look at how much energy on this forum goes to defending Trump's position on hydroxychloroquine, which despite being out of patent is still a pharmaceutical, versus pushing the fact that tried and true supplements without the dangerous side effects are undeniably effective! I guarantee you that you are better off taking a combo of vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc, NAC and melatonin than you are hydroxychlorquine. But anything pushed by Trump becomes clouded by politics both pro and con. You know what's funny? I heard a right wing talk show host just this morning attacking Democrat governors for questioning the safety of the new Pfizer vaccine. I get it. The Dems wouldn't be questioning this if Hillary had been president. But shouldn't the efficacy of a rushed vaccine backed by Bill Gates that may have fetal tissue in it be questioned? The "I gotta back it because it came from Trump" mentality is just as dangerous as the "I gotta be against it because it came from Trump" mentality.

    Anyhow, the deck was stacked in 2016 and they doubled down on stacking in 2020. Yeah it's terrible. At some point I'd rather just play a different game. And no not the "Let's have a civil war" or "Let's secede" game. Sorry but I have no more trust in the vast majority of the 70 plus million that voted for Trump than you have in the 70 plus million that voted against him. Jeff "asset forfeiture" Sessions not only voted for Trump, he was part of the freaking cabinet. Same with John "reject peace with Iran at all costs" Bolton.
    I agree One Zillion %!

    It was very obvious to me from the onset that Trump & Hitlery were on the same team. Why did he have a meet-up with them before he declared his Republican run? Why did he run on "Lock her up!" & never looked at the issue, once in office.

    And, the whole "he never started a new war " BS.

    Why did he cancel the Iranian Deal, one of the best things that Obama did & that Iran was in total compliance with? Why did he put horrible sanctions on Iran after that? Sanctions are an act of war. Why did he kill their general? Why are the troops increased mega abroad & more killings done under Trump than Obama or W?

    "Oh, but the left hates him- look at all the bad press/fake news!" There ain't no "bad press". Anyone in the PR world knows that Trump got millions of dollars of free advertisement. The so-called "hate" only increased the love of the know-nothings on the right. If he had truly been hated & feared, he woulda been treated like Ron Paul: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.

    This whole thing has been about causing hate & division among the average-joes, so that they will not notice the man behind the curtain.

    Total theatre!
    There is no spoon.

  15. #13
    It's an interesting proposition.
    I have had some time to think about this question, and it honestly seems like very few libertarians want to actually answer the question. Why? Because we either believe they don't (certainly not very much, if at all, at a federal level), but at the same time, us being on the sidelines doesn't do anything, either.

    Can anyone discuss what the majority of us stepping away after 2012 has done? Do we have any meaningful victories for liberty anywhere? We have the numbers in some areas to impact local/state results and help drive us back onto the road that is liberty.

    Someone recently told me, and I'm paraphrasing, that running away into the wilds isn't much an option, especially if you have a family. "They" can track all of us if they really wanted to (most of us need phone/Internet, etc.), so all you're doing is biding time in running off. Even then, at some point the fight will likely come to your doorstep in some form, proverbial or otherwise. It's best to meet it head on in the field before it gets any further inland.

    I'm now racking my brain on what "to do" next that I can try and impact.
    Last edited by Okie RP fan; 11-29-2020 at 01:07 PM.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I agree One Zillion %!

    It was very obvious to me from the onset that Trump & Hitlery were on the same team. Why did he have a meet-up with them before he declared his Republican run? Why did he run on "Lock her up!" & never looked at the issue, once in office.

    And, the whole "he never started a new war " BS.

    Why did he cancel the Iranian Deal, one of the best things that Obama did & that Iran was in total compliance with? Why did he put horrible sanctions on Iran after that? Sanctions are an act of war. Why did he kill their general? Why are the troops increased mega abroad & more killings done under Trump than Obama or W?

    "Oh, but the left hates him- look at all the bad press/fake news!" There ain't no "bad press". Anyone in the PR world knows that Trump got millions of dollars of free advertisement. The so-called "hate" only increased the love of the know-nothings on the right. If he had truly been hated & feared, he woulda been treated like Ron Paul: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.

    This whole thing has been about causing hate & division among the average-joes, so that they will not notice the man behind the curtain.

    Total theatre!
    True. I do think not actually getting involved in a hot war with Iran is worth something. But yeah. A big part of the reason we aren't at war is Iran decided not to escalate.

    And yeah. There is no such thing as "bad publicity." The opposite of love is not hate. It's apathy.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    It's an interesting proposition.
    I have had some time to think about this question, and it honestly seems like very few libertarians want to actually answer the question. Why? Because we either believe they don't (certainly not very much, if at all, at a federal level), but at the same time, us being on the sidelines doesn't do anything, either.

    Can anyone discuss what the majority of us stepping away after 2012 has done? Do we have any meaningful victories for liberty anywhere? We have the numbers in some areas to impact local/state results and help drive us back onto the road that is liberty.

    Someone recently told me, and I'm paraphrasing, that running away into the wilds isn't much an option, especially if you have a family. "They" can track all of us if they really wanted to (most of us need phone/Internet, etc.), so all you're doing is biding time in running off. Even then, at some point the fight will likely come to your doorstep in some form, proverbial or otherwise. It's best to meet it head on in the field before it gets any further inland.

    I'm now racking my brain on what "to do" next that I can try and impact.
    In terms of political victories:

    Rand Paul (Senate), Justin Amash (Congress: now gone), Thomas Massie (Congress), Glenn Jacobs (Kane of WWE fame: Mayor of Knoxville County) and now Kat Cammack (First time Congress). Agorists in Texas got the TSA pushed out of one of the local bus system. The feds had to stand down from the Bundy ranch dispute.

    In terms of educational victories:

    The FBI is no longer trusted by conservatives. (One good thing from the Trump administration). People are wary of vaccines like never before. (Ironically Trump pushing vaccines makes democrats wary). It's no longer taboo to question 9/11. Marijuana decriminalization passes every time it's brought up for referendum. Technology has really made gun control irrelevant. Alternative platforms to YouTube, Twitter and Facebook are gaining steam. Crypto currency is now mainstream.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What better way to ensure a "strawman" candidate ends up running against you?

    A candidate that every polling group on planet earth said could not possibly win.
    When there is the sound of hoofbeats, some people hear horses, some people hear zebras, some people hear unicorns.

    The root question at play is how "coordinated" is the establishment? The Welfare/Warfare state. Two wings of the same bird.

    Some people believe that they are fully coordinated, planned and controlled such that there is no other option than for Hillary and Trump to have been working together (with the media) on a master plan.

    Some believe that there is a dual to the finish between the GOP and Democrats, and there would never be any coordination or working together. One side is honest and good, the other side is evil incarnate.

    Some believe it's somewhere in between. And if you are sitting on that fence, both sides will throw stones at you.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    ...
    And to let off a little more steam, it bothers very few, that Trump signed the largest Omnibus in the history of the world, signed that North American Union NAFTA on Steroids, and No New Taxes (Bush Sr), I mean "Fees" (Flip-Flop-Mitt), AWARDED (Trump) Bill Gates-tied companies Trillions of dollars, setting in motion the U.N./Gates Goal.
    ...
    As a point of clarity, who are these "few" that you rant about? Family? Friends? Neighbors? People in your community? People like pundits on TV? People in the GOP? People in the Libertarian Party? People on this forum?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #18
    Double post, please delete.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    As a point of clarity, who are these "few" that you rant about? Family? Friends? Neighbors? People in your community? People like pundits on TV? People in the GOP? People in the Libertarian Party? People on this forum?
    I don't mean to chuckle, because it's not a laughing matter, but, all of the above.

    I still sit in on the republican committee meetings, and though I am no longer on the board of the RLC, or involved in state and federal elections, I still activate at the local level. Wow, Brian, could we have a conversation... one of the members of our bi-monthly Liberty Group meeting is "head" of the Libertarian Party in the state of Ohio, my cousin, as you may or may not know is Ronnie DeSantis (he is at least starting to come around). There are few exceptions, but, many of my family and friends believe we no longer live in the dark ages, and that we must progress along with the rest of the world and their values. My biggest beef is with republicans, because I once was a republican, and believe that the party of which I used to belong should be held fully accountable. Many republicans that I speak with, not just democrats, believe in Operation Warp Speed and have stated that government has a duty to monitor and protect us (thanks to Orange God). Well, the old saying, I did not leave them, they left me, holds true. Anyway, there you go :-(
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I don't mean to chuckle, because it's not a laughing matter, but, all of the above.

    I still sit in on the republican committee meetings, and though I am no longer on the board of the RLC, or involved in state and federal elections, I still activate at the local level. Wow, Brian, could we have a conversation... one of the members of our bi-monthly Liberty Group meeting is "head" of the Libertarian Party in the state of Ohio, my cousin, as you may or may not know is Ronnie DeSantis (he is at least starting to come around). There are few exceptions, but, many of my family and friends believe we no longer live in the dark ages, and that we must progress along with the rest of the world and their values. My biggest beef is with republicans, because I once was a republican, and believe that the party of which I used to belong should be held fully accountable. Many republicans that I speak with, not just democrats, believe in Operation Warp Speed and have stated that government has a duty to monitor and protect us (thanks to Orange God). Well, the old saying, I did not leave them, they left me, holds true. Anyway, there you go :-(

    https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/...50067703685122
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



Similar Threads

  1. Elections Do Matter
    By Anti Federalist in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 11-28-2020, 09:13 AM
  2. 2018 Elections: Bold RINOs vs Timid Democrats.. does it matter who wins?
    By enhanced_deficit in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-03-2018, 05:58 PM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-21-2016, 06:00 AM
  4. “Black Lives Matter” mural altered to read “Black Dads Matter.”
    By Lucille in forum Family, Parenting & Education
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-11-2016, 12:40 PM
  5. Other elections matter
    By Dan Warner in forum Grassroots Central
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-18-2007, 09:54 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •