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Thread: Rural Oregon counties vote to discuss seceding from state to join ‘Greater Idaho’

  1. #1

    Exclamation Rural Oregon counties vote to discuss seceding from state to join ‘Greater Idaho’

    Rural Oregon counties vote to discuss seceding from state to join ‘Greater Idaho’

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/rural-...-greater-idaho

    By Teny Sahakian | Fox News

    A deep political divide between urban and rural areas has conservative residents feeling ignored by the state government

    (And right there, shows the disconnect that the media organs have. No, Teny, that would would make them happy to have the state government "ignore" them - AF)

    A group called Move Oregon's Border is leading an initiative to have Oregon's rural counties secede from the rest of the state and join Idaho.

    Mike McCarter, 72, a retired plant nursery worker and lifelong Oregonian, has been leading the effort for almost two years. He said he and many others are eager to “get out from underneath the chokehold of Northwestern Oregon.”

    “We’ve watched the shift take place in Oregon politics where the primary concern of the Legislature is Northwest Oregon. That’s where 78% of the state’s population is based. They tend to forget that every law that you pass in the state affects us out in the rural economies, too,” McCarter told Fox News.

    He highlighted a number of benefits that come with being a citizen of Idaho, including lower taxes and generally more freedoms. Idaho is ranked No. 3 in regulatory freedom whereas Oregon is ranked No. 43, according to the Cato Institute.

    Oregon’s state politics took a sharp left turn during the past 20 years, something that has not gone unnoticed by more conservative residents in the state’s rural communities. McCarter pointed to a recently passed law that made Oregon the first state to decriminalize possession of hard drugs.

    “Now you look and you say, 'well, if you're homeless, if you're a hard drug user, if you're a rioter, if you're an illegal, come to Oregon - we’re a sanctuary state and you won't get in trouble.' And that's not the way conservatives feel in Oregon.”

    Portland has seen months of violent protests and riots with little government intervention since the death of George Floyd in May in Minneapolis.

    “Idaho is not a sanctuary state at all, and they want to protect their citizens. That's comforting, to live in a state like that who enforces the laws and not let the lawbreakers go free.”

    A measure requiring local officials to meet on the subject of changing the border was on the ballot in four counties this past election. It passed in Jefferson and Union counties and was voted down by small margins in Douglas and Wallowa counties.

    McCarter’s goal, however, is to get the issue as much attention as possible, since the final decision will lie with Oregon and Idaho state legislatures. The group hopes 19 of Oregon’s southern and eastern counties will secede and become part of what they call “Greater Idaho.”

    If successful, the border change would no longer make Idaho a land-locked state, giving it two coastal counties, something McCarter said could be a key selling point for the neighboring state.

    Move Oregon’s Border will continue collecting signatures for the May 2021 local elections in 11 other counties.
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis



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  3. #2
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  4. #3
    I'm itching to move there, border move or not. Family is all thats keeping us here. I know some who already went.
    "The Patriarch"

  5. #4
    I was in Sherman County ,stranded for a while..

    it ain't Portland.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #5
    Every red county of every blue state should be looking to join a nearby red state.

    Because they are not creating a new state they only need either the two states to agree OR Congress to agree, they do not need both.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Every red county of every blue state should be looking to join a nearby red state.

    Because they are not creating a new state they only need either the two states to agree OR Congress to agree, they do not need both.



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  8. #7
    Hopefully this will start a trend that will be impossible to break.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    “We’ve watched the shift take place in Oregon politics where the primary concern of the Legislature is Northwest Oregon. That’s where 78% of the state’s population is based. They tend to forget that every law that you pass in the state affects us out in the rural economies, too,” McCarter told Fox News.
    That 78% would appear to be an imposing obstacle - they have veto power over the deal. How many of that 78% want to rid themselves of those pesky Oregonians who want to leave Oregon and join Idaho?

    Are there resources in the seceding counties (19 of Oregon’s southern and eastern counties) which the 78% would not want to lose control over?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    A measure requiring local officials to meet on the subject of changing the border was on the ballot in four counties this past election. It passed in Jefferson and Union counties and was voted down by small margins in Douglas and Wallowa counties.
    So a measure to meet and discuss (not secede) failed in two of the four counties (out of 19) in which the measure was on the ballot. That's not a promising sign.

    As much as I'd like to see it - it's not in the cards. I mean, I live in Southern Illinois and would love to see the Illinois counties outside the Chicago metro area join with Missouri or Indiana - but it ain't gonna happen. The only way it's ever going to happen is if more people live in the rural counties than in the cities - and that kinda defeats the whole purpose.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 11-20-2020 at 10:05 AM.
    It happened sometime after they Made America Great Again. You see, I grew a bit weary from all the winning.

    Remember the number one rule of libertarianism: Bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces to make them happen.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Every red county of every blue state should be looking to join a nearby red state.

    Because they are not creating a new state they only need either the two states to agree OR Congress to agree, they do not need both.
    Exactly.

    I believe that this is where all our efforts need to be focused on in the coming years.

    The Rubicon has been crossed, the Marxist left has imported enough voters and rigged the rest so as to ensure uniparty rule, well, forever.

    There is no other option but to carve out a new nation for ourselves.

    Separate or Die.
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis

  12. #10
    Another question I have is how do the people of Idaho look at this? I mean, what's in it for the 1.76 million people who live in Idaho, and why would they go along with it? Looking at this US News and World Report article which specifically mentions Idaho from 2018 to 2019:
    4. Idaho

    Total new residents: 78,730
    Age 1+ population: 1,764,327

    Nearly 4.7% of Idaho residents lived in a different state in 2018. Nearly 18,000 new residents migrated from California, while many also moved from Arizona (5,018), Colorado (3,970) and Montana (3,026).
    If I'm in Idaho, I'm wondering how all of this is going to change the culture and character of my state, and how that's going to impact me in the long run. How many people are in those 19 Oregonian counties and what impact is this going to have on the people already living in Idaho?

    Would a simple majority vote in Oregon and Idaho be required - or a supermajority? Typically, on issues of such importance, a supermajority is required. Keep in mind that Idaho gave 33.1% of it's 2020 vote to Biden, and I'd expect that all of those Biden voters would be against conservative counties from Oregon (where the average vote for Trump was 75%) further diluting their vote. So if a supermajority is required, you'd have to get all of the remaining 2/3 of the vote in Idaho.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 11-20-2020 at 12:09 PM.
    It happened sometime after they Made America Great Again. You see, I grew a bit weary from all the winning.

    Remember the number one rule of libertarianism: Bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces to make them happen.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I believe that this is where all our efforts need to be focused on in the coming years.

    The Rubicon has been crossed, the Marxist left has imported enough voters and rigged the rest so as to ensure uniparty rule, well, forever.

    There is no other option but to carve out a new nation for ourselves.
    AF, I'm sorry to be a Danny Downer on this, but I just don't see it happening (except through revolution and violence). I realize that it's just in a grass roots phase, but I find it eerily similar to the attempts by the left to abolish, amend and/or develop end-runs around the Electoral College ... in that if they had the votes to accomplish it, then there'd be no need to do it.

    I don't even think the organizers are that serious about it. On the "Contacts" pane of the webpage, there are only contacts for Oregon and California. Why no Idaho contact? Wouldn't you think that this would require even more organization in Idaho? It just seems like a political tactic aimed at their own state legislatures in order to get their grievances addressed.
    It happened sometime after they Made America Great Again. You see, I grew a bit weary from all the winning.

    Remember the number one rule of libertarianism: Bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces to make them happen.

  14. #12
    Partition needs to happen everywhere, but it's not an easy task. Entrenched political powers make it near impossible.

    Here's a helpful wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tion_proposals

    So many big chunks of the country are being screwed by the big cities in their states. Upstate New York. PA west of the Susquehanna. Lower Illinois. The entire west that is not on the coast...

    If you're looking for some optimism, it might only take one or two successes to begin a chain reaction.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    That 78% would appear to be an imposing obstacle - they have veto power over the deal. How many of that 78% want to rid themselves of those pesky Oregonians who want to leave Oregon and join Idaho?

    Are there resources in the seceding counties (19 of Oregon’s southern and eastern counties) which the 78% would not want to lose control over?
    I've looked into this and the counties that want to leave are a fiscal drag on the state because the left has destroyed their rural economies, they have a outreach program to get the leftist counties to want to give them to Idaho.
    And they don't need the state of Oregon to agree if they get Congress to approve it because they are not making a new state, they are adjusting the borders of two existing states.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    So a measure to meet and discuss (not secede) failed in two of the four counties (out of 19) in which the measure was on the ballot. That's not a promising sign.

    As much as I'd like to see it - it's not in the cards. I mean, I live in Southern Illinois and would love to see the Illinois counties outside the Chicago metro area join with Missouri or Indiana - but it ain't gonna happen. The only way it's ever going to happen is if more people live in the rural counties than in the cities - and that kinda defeats the whole purpose.
    Few movements succeed right away at their start, the movement will grow and gain strength if they don't give up on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Another question I have is how do the people of Idaho look at this? I mean, what's in it for the 1.76 million people who live in Idaho, and why would they go along with it? Looking at this US News and World Report article which specifically mentions Idaho from 2018 to 2019:


    If I'm in Idaho, I'm wondering how all of this is going to change the culture and character of my state, and how that's going to impact me in the long run. How many people are in those 19 Oregonian counties and what impact is this going to have on the people already living in Idaho?
    I believe the Governor and Legislature of Idaho have already expressed support for the idea, gaining the rural conservative counties from OR, northern CA and maybe WA in the future would be an excellent counter to all of the leftist CA residents moving to ID.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Would a simple majority vote in Oregon and Idaho be required - or a supermajority? Typically, on issues of such importance, a supermajority is required. Keep in mind that Idaho gave 33.1% of it's 2020 vote to Biden, and I'd expect that all of those Biden voters would be against conservative counties from Oregon (where the average vote for Trump was 75%) further diluting their vote. So if a supermajority is required, you'd have to get all of the remaining 2/3 of the vote in Idaho.
    Only a majority is required in the state legislatures or in Congress to adjust state borders.
    And the Oregon Constitution requires a higher than normal threshold for a quorum in their legislature which gives the Republicans the power to hold OR captive until they agree, they have already been using that to stop some taxes and laws. (This also gives OR another reason to want them gone)

    We should all support this in every relevant state.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 11-20-2020 at 05:26 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Rural Oregon counties vote to discuss seceding from state to join ‘Greater Idaho’

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/rural-...-greater-idaho

    By Teny Sahakian | Fox News

    A deep political divide between urban and rural areas has conservative residents feeling ignored by the state government

    (And right there, shows the disconnect that the media organs have. No, Teny, that would would make them happy to have the state government "ignore" them - AF)

    A group called Move Oregon's Border is leading an initiative to have Oregon's rural counties secede from the rest of the state and join Idaho.

    Mike McCarter, 72, a retired plant nursery worker and lifelong Oregonian, has been leading the effort for almost two years. He said he and many others are eager to “get out from underneath the chokehold of Northwestern Oregon.”

    “We’ve watched the shift take place in Oregon politics where the primary concern of the Legislature is Northwest Oregon. That’s where 78% of the state’s population is based. They tend to forget that every law that you pass in the state affects us out in the rural economies, too,” McCarter told Fox News.

    He highlighted a number of benefits that come with being a citizen of Idaho, including lower taxes and generally more freedoms. Idaho is ranked No. 3 in regulatory freedom whereas Oregon is ranked No. 43, according to the Cato Institute.

    Oregon’s state politics took a sharp left turn during the past 20 years, something that has not gone unnoticed by more conservative residents in the state’s rural communities. McCarter pointed to a recently passed law that made Oregon the first state to decriminalize possession of hard drugs.

    “Now you look and you say, 'well, if you're homeless, if you're a hard drug user, if you're a rioter, if you're an illegal, come to Oregon - we’re a sanctuary state and you won't get in trouble.' And that's not the way conservatives feel in Oregon.”

    Portland has seen months of violent protests and riots with little government intervention since the death of George Floyd in May in Minneapolis.

    “Idaho is not a sanctuary state at all, and they want to protect their citizens. That's comforting, to live in a state like that who enforces the laws and not let the lawbreakers go free.”

    A measure requiring local officials to meet on the subject of changing the border was on the ballot in four counties this past election. It passed in Jefferson and Union counties and was voted down by small margins in Douglas and Wallowa counties.

    McCarter’s goal, however, is to get the issue as much attention as possible, since the final decision will lie with Oregon and Idaho state legislatures. The group hopes 19 of Oregon’s southern and eastern counties will secede and become part of what they call “Greater Idaho.”

    If successful, the border change would no longer make Idaho a land-locked state, giving it two coastal counties, something McCarter said could be a key selling point for the neighboring state.

    Move Oregon’s Border will continue collecting signatures for the May 2021 local elections in 11 other counties.
    Indeed

    Oregonians should be allowed to join Greater Idaho



    .
    Last edited by Contumacious; 11-20-2020 at 05:14 PM.
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    That 78% would appear to be an imposing obstacle - they have veto power over the deal. How many of that 78% want to rid themselves of those pesky Oregonians who want to leave Oregon and join Idaho?

    Are there resources in the seceding counties (19 of Oregon’s southern and eastern counties) which the 78% would not want to lose control over?



    So a measure to meet and discuss (not secede) failed in two of the four counties (out of 19) in which the measure was on the ballot. That's not a promising sign.

    As much as I'd like to see it - it's not in the cards. I mean, I live in Southern Illinois and would love to see the Illinois counties outside the Chicago metro area join with Missouri or Indiana - but it ain't gonna happen. The only way it's ever going to happen is if more people live in the rural counties than in the cities - and that kinda defeats the whole purpose.
    If people from the red parts of the state started going to the blue parts and killing a lot of people, voters might think "maybe it's better to let them go". There are a lot of different methods that could be used.

    This "leaving one state and joining another" thing is news to me. I like the idea of carving out the tiny blue dots from red states.

    Maybe push that idea. Hey Philadelphia, you'd be much better off if you joined NJ, DE or MD.

    It's a fun game, who goes where?

    If NH took the red counties of Maine, NH would be red. Perhaps the bluer part of NH can join Maine? Little useful change to CT, RI, MA.

    Upstate NY can join PA. PA becomes red. Most of Virginia outside of the DC burbs can join west virginia. That's red. Or they could go to Kentucky. Much of NC, western, could go to Tenn or SC. Southern Georgia could join Florida. Then on the west coast, East Oregon can join Idaho, East Washington can join Idaho. Parts of Colorado can join Wyoming. Parts of New Mexico can join Texas. Maybe parts of Arizona and much of Nevada can follow that way, and maybe even parts of California.

    In reality, this doesn't end up with the best result. In the Northeast, a big state with Boston, New York, Philly, Baltimore and NorVa would make many of the surrounding states red. Basically, the I-95 state would be very blue and have a lot of electoral votes.

  18. #16
    ///
    We must picture Hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment. - C. S. Lewis



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