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Thread: Largest Dam Demolition in U.S. History

  1. #1

    Largest Dam Demolition in U.S. History

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbre...213326069.html

    PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — An agreement announced Tuesday paves the way for the largest dam demolition in U.S. history, a project that promises to reopen hundreds of miles of waterway along the Oregon-California border to salmon that are critical to tribes but have dwindled to almost nothing in recent years.

    If approved, the deal would revive plans to remove four massive hydroelectric dams on the lower Klamath River, creating the foundation for the most ambitious salmon restoration effort in history. The project on California's second-largest river would be at the vanguard of a trend toward dam demolitions in the U.S. as the structures age and become less economically viable amid growing environmental concerns about the health of native fish.

    Previous efforts to address problems in the Klamath Basin have fallen apart amid years of legal sparring that generated distrust among tribes, fishing groups, farmers and environmentalists, and the new agreement could face more legal challenges. Some state and federal lawmakers criticized it as a financially irresponsible overreach by leaders in Oregon and California.

    “This dam removal is more than just a concrete project coming down. It’s a new day and a new era,” Yurok Tribe chairman Joseph James said. “To me, this is who we are, to have a free-flowing river just as those who have come before us. ... Our way of life will thrive with these dams being out.”

    A half-dozen tribes across Oregon and California, fishing groups and environmentalists had hoped to see demolition work begin as soon as 2022. But those plans stalled in July, when U.S. regulators questioned whether the nonprofit entity formed to oversee the project could adequately respond to any cost overruns or accidents.

    The new plan makes Oregon and California equal partners in the demolition with the nonprofit entity, called the Klamath River Renewal Corporation, and adds $45 million to the project’s $450 million budget to ease those concerns. Oregon, California and the utility PacifiCorp, which operates the hydroelectric dams and is owned by billionaire Warren Buffett’s company Berkshire Hathaway, will each provide one-third of the additional funds.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks
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    You "guys" have the market cornered on transexual satan worshipping anarchists

    "Our Enemy, The State" by Albert Nock. https://famguardian.org/Publications...bertJKnock.pdf



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  3. #2
    Get rid of coal, gas, nuclear and hydro, what’s left? Solar? Good luck with that.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    as the structures age and become less economically viable
    Compared to what? Is this a joke?
    "The Patriarch"

  5. #4
    Funny how these progressives want to remove physical dams because of the damage they see to the natural environment, but at the same time, they want to build more and more socioeconomic dams in every other aspect of life.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Get rid of coal, gas, nuclear and hydro, what’s left? Solar? Good luck with that.

    One of the things not being noticed is all the critical infrastructure that's being destroyed. Not only are we as a society not able to create new projects, but we are destroying old infrastructure. Look at how they always find a problem, even with the most green forms of energy. The Pacific Northwest has many of these dams, and therefore the most clean, cheap energy in the country. If your goal was to be more "carbon neutral" you certainly wouldn't be destroying these. Instead we are destroying infrastructure at a troubling rate even while the need grows.

    They're intentionally making traffic worse, not only by refusing to make new roads and bridges, but destroying the old. In Seattle they replaced a viaduct with three lanes in each direction and downtown exits to a tunnel with two lanes in each direction and no downtown exits. In Portland they want to eliminate the downtown I-5 freeway section. In Detroit I-375. None of this makes sense.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Get rid of coal, gas, nuclear and hydro, what’s left? Solar? Good luck with that.
    Muh dams.

    https://www.enterrasolutions.com/blog/generating-hydr/

    Generating Hydroelectricity without Dams
    Stephen DeAngelis
    May 29, 2008

    With energy prices continuing to skyrocket and concerns about climate change grabbing headlines and Nobel Peace prizes, you would think that potential breakthroughs in alternative energy technologies would get more notice. According to an article in The Economist [“End of a dammed nuisance,” 8 March 2008 print edition], “A new generation of free-standing turbines promises to liberate hydroelectric power from its dependence on dams.” That’s good news for both developed and developing countries.

    “Even in today’s more environmentally conscious times, hydroelectric dams are often unwelcome. Although the power they generate is renewable and appears not to produce greenhouse-gas emissions, there are lots of bad things about them. Blocking a river with a dam blocks the movement both of fish upstream to spawn and of silt downstream to fertilise fields. The vegetation overwhelmed by the rising waters decays to form methane—a far worse greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. The capital cost is huge. And people are often displaced to make way for the new lake. The question, therefore, is whether there is a way to get the advantages of hydropower without the drawbacks. And the answer is that there may be.”

    China’s Three Gorges Dam is an interesting case to look at when discussing the benefits and drawbacks of building dams to generate hydroelectric power. When completed and in full operation, the dam is expected to generate nearly 85 billion kilowatt hours of electricity. That energy is equivalent to burning 50 million tons of coal or 25 million tons of crude oil. It will annually keep 100 million tons of carbon dioxide, nearly two million tons of sulfur dioxide, ten thousand tons of carbon monoxide, 370, 0000 tons of nitrogen oxide and 150,000 tons of dust out of the atmosphere. The cost savings (even before oil and coal prices started to rise dramatically) were estimated to equal the costs of the project within three years of full operation. Additionally, the availability of all that power was expected to create millions of desperately needed jobs. That’s the up side. The down side includes the fact that hundreds of factories (built on land that has been covered by the lake created by the dam) either closed permanently or had to be rebuilt elsewhere. Over a million people had to be relocated and hundreds of towns, some historically significant, were buried under water. Additionally, nearly 31,000 hectares of farmland was lost to the reservoir in a country already suffering from a severe shortage of arable land. [see TED Case Studies: The Grand Canal and the Three Gorges Dam: A Historical Comparison]

    Wouldn’t it be grand, innovators thought, if one could achieve the benefits of hydroelectric power without the drawbacks of having to build a dam and create an artificial lake.

    “The purpose of a dam is twofold: to house the turbines that create the electricity and to provide a sufficient head of water pressure to drive them efficiently. If it were possible to develop a turbine that did not need such a water-head to operate, and that could sit in the riverbed, then a dam would be unnecessary. Such turbines could also be put in places that could not be dammed—the bottom of the sea, for example. And that is what is starting to happen, with the deployment of free-standing underwater turbines.”

    Sounds too good to be true doesn’t it. Well, in some ways it is.

    “The big disadvantage of free-standing turbines is that they are less efficient than turbines in dams at turning the kinetic energy of moving water into electricity. They are also subject to more wear and tear than turbines protected by huge amounts of concrete. They can be hard to reach for repairs and maintenance. And their generators, being electrical machines, must be protected from the water that surrounds the rest of the turbine. A discouraging list. But in the past three decades computing power has became cheaper, helping developers to simulate the behaviour of water and turbine blades—something that is hard to do with paper, pen and formulas. Moreover, prototypes can be built directly from the computer models. All this has helped scientists and industry to solve the inherent problems of free-standing turbines.”

    The article then goes on to describe three different models of free-standing turbines that are getting attention. Each tackles the problems mentioned above in a slightly different way.

    “The first new design was by Alexander Gorlov, a Russian civil engineer who worked on the Aswan High Dam in Egypt. He later moved to America where, with the financial assistance of the Department of Energy, he produced the first prototype of a turbine that could extract power from free-flowing currents ‘without building any dam’. The Gorlov Helical Turbine, as it is known, Gorlov_helical_turbineallows you to use any stream, whatever the direction of its flow. The vertical helical structure, which gives the device its name, provides a stability that previous designs lacked. It is also relatively efficient, extracting 35% of the energy from a stream. In addition, since the shaft is vertical, the electric generator can be installed at the top, above the water—so there is no need for any waterproof boxes. In 2001 Mr Gorlov won the Edison patent award for his invention, and his turbines have now been commercialised by Lucid Energy Technologies, an American company. They are being tested in pilot projects in both South Korea and North America.”

    Output, of course, depends on the size of the turbine and the amount of potential energy in the “stream.” Normally, one doesn’t think of “streams” as having much potential — one thinks of fast-flowing “rivers.” For small villages situated along “streams,” a few of these turbines might produce enough energy to satisfy their needs. At least that is the implication I get from the article’s use of the word “stream.”

    “A second design is by Philippe Vauthier, another immigrant to America, who was originally a Swiss jeweller. The turbines made by his company, UEK, are anchored on a submerged platform. UekThey are able to align themselves in the current like windsocks at an aerodrome, so that they find the best position for power generation. Being easy to install and maintain, they are being used in remote areas of developing countries.”

    UEK (which stands for Underwater Electric Kite) admits that its turbine requires a river (or ocean currents or a significant tidal flow) to generate electricity. Since it can swivel, the UEK turbine can take advantage of both ebbing and flowing tidal currents.

    “Finally, a design by OpenHydro, an Irish company, is not just a new kind of turbine but also a new design of underwater electric generator. Generators (roughly speaking) consist of magnets Openhydromoving relative to coils. So why not attach the magnets directly to the external, rotating parts of the turbine? The coils are then housed in an outer rim that encloses the rotating blades. And there is a large circular gap at the centre of the blades, which is safer for marine life. In addition, OpenHydro’s generators do not need lubricant, which considerably reduces the need for maintenance.”

    OpenHydro’s turbines are quite large and, according to company’s web site, are designed to be deployed directly on the seabed (no mention of riverbeds). The article concludes:

    “These new designs, combined with growing interest in renewable-energy technologies among investors, mean that funding is now flowing into a previously neglected field. According to New Energy Finance, a specialist consultancy, investments in companies planning to build or deploy free-standing turbines have increased from $13m in 2004 to $156m in 2007. Projects already under way include the installation by American Verdant Power of a tidal turbine in the East River in New York, and UEK, OpenHydro and Canadian Clean Current are operating pilot projects in Nova Scotia. And that, proponents of the technology believe, will just be the beginning. Soon, they hope, many more investors will be searching for treasures buried on the seabed—or, to be precise, in the water flowing just above it.”

    One of the advantages of these systems is that they can be situated close to the populations or businesses they serve; dramatically cutting down on the expense of building distribution systems. This is particularly important for remote areas near fast flowing bodies of water. A quick perusal of the businesses’ web sites reveals that the industry remains in its infancy. It will be an interesting sector to watch as it matures. It also underscores the fact that science and technology remain extremely important if we are to meet current and future challenges in a responsible way.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    One of the things not being noticed is all the critical infrastructure that's being destroyed. Not only are we as a society not able to create new projects, but we are destroying old infrastructure. Look at how they always find a problem, even with the most green forms of energy. The Pacific Northwest has many of these dams, and therefore the most clean, cheap energy in the country. If your goal was to be more "carbon neutral" you certainly wouldn't be destroying these. Instead we are destroying infrastructure at a troubling rate even while the need grows.

    They're intentionally making traffic worse, not only by refusing to make new roads and bridges, but destroying the old. In Seattle they replaced a viaduct with three lanes in each direction and downtown exits to a tunnel with two lanes in each direction and no downtown exits. In Portland they want to eliminate the downtown I-5 freeway section. In Detroit I-375. None of this makes sense.
    Yep, it's insanity.

    Two related threads:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-traffic-worse
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ways-torn-down
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbre...213326069.html
    ...
    the most ambitious salmon restoration effort in history.
    ...
    They call these projects environmentally friendly. Yet they want to destroy entire ecosystems that have been in place since these dams were built, some 100 years ago. How cares about all of the wildlife that depends upon these reservoirs?

    Fish ladders are supposed to be in place for the salmon. Are they not working?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Muh dams.

    https://www.enterrasolutions.com/blog/generating-hydr/

    [i]Generating Hydroelectricity without Dams
    Stephen DeAngelis
    ...
    Dams are also water storage.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Compared to what? Is this a joke?
    Total joke. Has the price of electricity dropped so much that they are no longer "economically viable"?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Dams are also water storage.
    And the libertarian alternative is...

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And the libertarian alternative is...

    Requires rain at your specific location. Also requires a lot of work.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Requires rain at your specific location. Also requires a lot of work.
    *Gasp* You mean I have to actually think about where I want to live and adjust my building plans accordingly? Rain catchment systems are built into EarthShips that are constructed in the desert.



    But yeah. It's easier to have some big government construction project to build muh infrastructure and divert river water that would naturally flow to country people downstream and instead siphon it off to big city folks that love socialism and all that. Like @Anti Federalist says, freedom isn't popular.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  16. #14
    Nuke power will return unless they go fusion reactor.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    You "guys" have the market cornered on transexual satan worshipping anarchists

    "Our Enemy, The State" by Albert Nock. https://famguardian.org/Publications...bertJKnock.pdf

  17. #15
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_Basin

    Communities
    Communities in the Klamath Basin include:

    Merrill, Oregon
    Bly, Oregon
    Beatty, Oregon
    Bonanza, Oregon
    Chiloquin, Oregon
    Happy Camp, California
    Klamath Falls, Oregon
    Sprague River, Oregon
    Tulelake, California
    Weaverville, California
    Yreka, California

    Wonder how these folks are going to get electric? A bunch of generators, wind and solar.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    You "guys" have the market cornered on transexual satan worshipping anarchists

    "Our Enemy, The State" by Albert Nock. https://famguardian.org/Publications...bertJKnock.pdf

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    *Gasp* You mean I have to actually think about where I want to live and adjust my building plans accordingly? Rain catchment systems are built into EarthShips that are constructed in the desert.



    But yeah. It's easier to have some big government construction project to build muh infrastructure and divert river water that would naturally flow to country people downstream and instead siphon it off to big city folks that love socialism and all that. Like @Anti Federalist says, freedom isn't popular.
    "Ideally, water would be used."

    Yeah, looks totally practical. China can manufacture rainwater catchment systems for $1 each, and anyone can install and maintain them. I hear millennials are very capable of these kinds of things...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    "Ideally, water would be used."

    Yeah, looks totally practical. China can manufacture rainwater catchment systems for $1 each, and anyone can install and maintain them. I hear millennials are very capable of these kinds of things...
    Statism FTW! Save big government for big water projects and take the land that will be taken by the flooding by eminent domain! Government picking winners and losers! (Water for big cities over country folk would would get it naturally flowing down river.)
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Statism FTW! Save big government for big water projects and take the land that will be taken by the flooding by eminent domain! Government picking winners and losers! (Water for big cities over country folk would would get it naturally flowing down river.)
    That's a fair argument to make before a dam is built. The price has already been paid for these long time ago. At this point it's just wasting what was spent. Tearing already built infrastructure down isn't going to help anyone besides the Bolsheviks.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    That's a fair argument to make before a dam is built. The price has already been paid for these long time ago. At this point it's just wasting what was spent. Tearing already built infrastructure down isn't going to help anyone besides the Bolsheviks.
    Meh. It will help everyone hurt by the monstrosity being built in the first place. I'm not for or against it being torn down. But the pearl clutching over it is a bit much. So is interpreting everything that happens from a "Bolshevik" lens.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    One of the things not being noticed is all the critical infrastructure that's being destroyed. Not only are we as a society not able to create new projects, but we are destroying old infrastructure. Look at how they always find a problem, even with the most green forms of energy. The Pacific Northwest has many of these dams, and therefore the most clean, cheap energy in the country. If your goal was to be more "carbon neutral" you certainly wouldn't be destroying these. Instead we are destroying infrastructure at a troubling rate even while the need grows.

    They're intentionally making traffic worse, not only by refusing to make new roads and bridges, but destroying the old. In Seattle they replaced a viaduct with three lanes in each direction and downtown exits to a tunnel with two lanes in each direction and no downtown exits. In Portland they want to eliminate the downtown I-5 freeway section. In Detroit I-375. None of this makes sense.

    This made me think of China's continued "rise."
    They're going full bore on just about anything/everything to help themselves grow and generate power for a burgeoning society. So while the U.S. will likely begin more projects like these that could very well end up having negative socioeconomic consequences (I have no dog in this particular fight and won't deep dive too much for now) for the U.S., at least we'll be able to feel good about "restoring" something to the way it was before. Even though a new ecosystem has been built and I'm sure there's other methods that can be used to achieve similar results of what's being asked here beyond just destroying infrastructure.

    I just thought it was funny to kind of compare how this mirrors the facade of what's going on in the U.S. right now.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Meh. It will help everyone hurt by the monstrosity being built in the first place. I'm not for or against it being torn down. But the pearl clutching over it is a bit much. So is interpreting everything that happens from a "Bolshevik" lens.
    Explain how it will help anyone hurt previously. Those people are long gone and their families will receive nothing when it's gone besides higher utility rates.


    Bolshevik, Leftist, Marxist, globalist, Soros disciple, Trotskyite, useful idiot, etc... It's all just semantics at this point. Pick your favorite. At the end of the day, these people want to destroy your way of life. Look at the people like Bill Gates who think the world is overpopulated and we need to full the heard with abortions and vaccines.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    Explain how it will help anyone hurt previously. Those people are long gone and their families will receive nothing when it's gone besides higher utility rates.
    People who currently get less water downstream because the dam is there. Folks who like to catch and eat their own salmon.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    People who currently get less water downstream because the dam is there. Folks who like to catch and eat their own salmon.
    I don't know how much water you want downstream. It's the Pacific Northwest, there's plenty of water downstream. There's also plenty of salmon. There would be even more if useful idiots weren't always adding hatchery fish into the population which are basically retarded. I just realized leftists are dumping the salmon equivalent of themselves into the wild with similar results.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Get rid of coal, gas, nuclear and hydro, what’s left? Solar? Good luck with that.
    Don't need near as much power creation when much of the population is....hmmmm....downsized.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere
    Nuke power will return unless they go fusion reactor.
    I recall reading something about gold being used in the next generation of nuclear power plants. I didn't spend much time on it since nuclear power topics is not my cup of tea but source seemed credible. Worth checking out if that topic interests you. It wasn't about transmuting other metals into gold (common search result) but rather the use of gold in the reactor itself somehow.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I recall reading something about gold being used in the next generation of nuclear power plants. I didn't spend much time on it since nuclear power topics is not my cup of tea but source seemed credible. Worth checking out if that topic interests you. It wasn't about transmuting other metals into gold (common search result) but rather the use of gold in the reactor itself somehow.

    Interesting, ... never heard of that before. I will search it out of curiosity.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    You "guys" have the market cornered on transexual satan worshipping anarchists

    "Our Enemy, The State" by Albert Nock. https://famguardian.org/Publications...bertJKnock.pdf

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Get rid of coal, gas, nuclear and hydro, what’s left?



    Hydro is one of the most efficient forms of power generation (also "green" if one cares about such nonsense).

    If the yellow-bellied weasel-fish must go extinct to further the goals of the rightful masters of this planet, tough.

    ...we could hold a hearing, but neither the weasel-fish nor the trees would have an opinion.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-25-2020 at 07:44 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  31. #27


    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post



    Hydro is one of the most efficient forms of power generation (also "green" if one cares about such nonsense).

    If the yellow-bellied weasel-fish must go extinct to further the goals of the rightful masters of this planet, tough.

    ...we could hold a hearing, but neither the weasel-fish nor the trees would have an opinion.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    You "guys" have the market cornered on transexual satan worshipping anarchists

    "Our Enemy, The State" by Albert Nock. https://famguardian.org/Publications...bertJKnock.pdf



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