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Thread: What If We Ignore the Government?

  1. #1

    What If We Ignore the Government?

    What if we all start a return to normal life now that the government says the worst of the pandemic is behind us? What if we all make conscious choices to move about as before or to stay sheltered, based on our own exercise of our own informed free wills and not on the basis of governmental edicts? What if each of us decides if it is healthier to breathe in fresh air from outside or recycled air from under a mask?

    What if massive numbers of us make these decisions on our own?

    What if the governors' edicts don't really carry the force of law? What if governors have assumed the power to tell us how to live from either out of thin air or from unconstitutional and outdated state laws?

    What if it is profoundly unconstitutional for a state legislature to give its law-making powers to the state's governor? What if, when that happens, all the governors' edicts based on that attempted passage of power are null and void? What if we simply behave in a manner that shows we understand that these edicts are unlawful?

    What if high school and college athletes play their fall sports without regard to gubernatorial edicts? What if public school superintendents and college and university presidents open up outdoor venues for folks to decide on their own whether they want to stay home or come out and watch a football game or a soccer match?

    What if the police, many of whom have school- and college-age children, cheer on the athletes and join the observers at these games? What if they do so notwithstanding any commands from their superiors because these commands are unlawful, and they know it is unlawful to obey an unlawful command?

    What if restaurants served their full complement of customers and folks became so happy that restaurants were again jammed? What if restaurant owners and customers made these choices on their own?

    What if small businesses borrow money from banks — flush with cash because interest rates are so artificially low — and use those funds to restart their businesses? What if customers of those businesses choose to patronize them? What if shopping malls reopened and permitted folks to walk wherever their fancy took them?

    What if fire and police and EMS and health care workers all joined in a mass exposition of personal liberty in our once-free society? What if the governors who have restrained us lose so much support that only the folks whom they have frightened to death listen to them? What if this resurgence of freedom uplifts our spirits, reunites us as a nation and is a step toward the realization of our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

    What if — as Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence — our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are inalienable? What if an inalienable right can only be taken away in a free society for violating someone else's rights, and only after a conviction by a fair jury trial? What if an inalienable right — sometimes called a natural right — cannot morally or constitutionally or legally be taken away by a governmental edict or by legislation or even by a referendum?

    What if inalienable rights are integral to each person's humanity?

    What if the whole purpose of an independent judiciary is to be anti-democratic? What if its purpose is to preserve and protect the life, liberty, property and pursuit of happiness of those whom the government targets because it hates or fears them?

    What if life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were not just Jefferson's musings for a free people but are the bedrock moral, constitutional and legal values of America, established in 1776, renewed whenever any government employee — from janitor to president — takes an oath of office, and are the foundation of all American laws?

    What if each person's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is each person's choice as to the exercise and pursuit of those rights?

    What if we have other inalienable rights such as the freedom of speech, the right to assemble peacefully, the right to worship, the right to travel and to self-defense, the right to fairness from the government, the right to take chances, the right to own and enjoy property, and the right to be left alone?

    What if government workers join in a massive civil disobedience of local and state rules governing personal behavior on private property? What if the governors who have been controlling us realize that they have no real support and thus have become toothless?

    What if when government fails to protect inalienable rights, we simply ignore it?

    What if ignoring the government is a pipe dream? What if most folks are afraid of the government? What if only a few in government take seriously the lofty language about the government deriving all its just powers from the consent of the governed?

    What if the government uses force to enforce its unlawful decrees? What if the government uses each crisis to expand its power? What if when the crisis passes, the government retains the power it took during the crisis? What if the history of American government is the history of governmental power growing and personal liberty decreasing?

    What if we ignore the government at our peril? What if when government tramples our rights, we alter or abolish it? What if the time to do that is coming? What if that time is here? What if — as Jefferson wrote — when the people fear the government there is tyranny? What if when the government fears the people, there is liberty?


    http://www.judgenap.com/post/what-if...the-government
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer



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  3. #2
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  4. #3
    What if Americans grew some spine? But alas that's a mere dream.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  5. #4
    Ignoring politics?

    Yes

    Ignoring government...?

    Well, to paraphrase someone, you can ignore government but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring government (fines, jail, etc).

    ...not recommended.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Ignoring politics?

    Yes

    Ignoring government...?

    Well, to paraphrase someone, you can ignore government but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring government (fines, jail, etc).

    ...not recommended.

    There are many ways one can ignore government. I do it each and every day, and would have it no other way.

    Page 46 might help.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    There are many ways one can ignore government. I do it each and every day, and would have it no other way.

    Page 46 might help.

    Isn't it funny how whenever an anarchist talks about "ignoring" government our opposites always assume we mean to naively pretend it just doesn't exist without any thought or consideration for the possible cosequences of our actions? The possibility that we're advocating very carefully considered and planned acts of civil disobedience aimed specifically at undermining particular aspects of government authority and legitimacy never seems to cross their minds. Curious.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  8. #7
    What happens if you ignore the government?



    They shoot you
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    What happens if you ignore the government?



    They shoot you
    they r going 2 anyway...might as well flip em the bird the best way u can
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Isn't it funny how whenever an anarchist talks about "ignoring" government our opposites always assume we mean to naively pretend it just doesn't exist without any thought or consideration for the possible cosequences of our actions? The possibility that we're advocating very carefully considered and planned acts of civil disobedience aimed specifically at undermining particular aspects of government authority and legitimacy never seems to cross their minds. Curious.
    It is sad to say, but even on RPF, Common Core has sunk its teeth.

    They truly would be surprised to see how easily Agorism could be incorporated into their daily lives, if they only took their heads out of that brain-washing sand.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    There are many ways one can ignore government. I do it each and every day, and would have it no other way.

    Page 46 might help.
    For me it's Grey Man time- until it becomes relevant.
    There is no spoon.

  13. #11
    There's nobody in this country who can ignore the government on their own. Nobody. You built a cabin out there off grid - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your "private" property because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your farm... Now look. You built a domicile and it turned into something self sufficient or a great place to raise a family. - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.
    What contract? I didn't sign anything.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    What contract? I didn't sign anything.
    It's one of those special kind of contracts.....you know "underlying"
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Isn't it funny how whenever an anarchist talks about "ignoring" government our opposites always assume we mean to naively pretend it just doesn't exist without any thought or consideration for the possible cosequences of our actions? The possibility that we're advocating very carefully considered and planned acts of civil disobedience aimed specifically at undermining particular aspects of government authority and legitimacy never seems to cross their minds. Curious.
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    It is sad to say, but even on RPF, Common Core has sunk its teeth.

    They truly would be surprised to see how easily Agorism could be incorporated into their daily lives, if they only took their heads out of that brain-washing sand.
    The state is entirely capable of compelling people to pay taxes and observe other laws.

    This, indeed, is why the state exists, and has for thousands and thousands of years.

    You think that "ignoring them" is either novel or likely to succeed? Gee, why didn't we think of ignoring them before...

    And you have the gall to suggest that those of us who don't join in with that infantile solution are tainted by Common Core?

    Get a grip

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The state is entirely capable of compelling people to pay taxes and observe other laws.

    This, indeed, is why the state exists, and has for thousands and thousands of years.

    You think that "ignoring them" is either novel or likely to succeed? Gee, why didn't we think of ignoring them before...

    And you have the gall to suggest that those of us who don't join in with that infantile solution are tainted by Common Core?

    Get a grip
    Last edited by PAF; 11-13-2020 at 08:41 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  18. #16
    Can't be Ignored..

    But I do avoid it as much as possible.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The state is entirely capable of compelling people to pay taxes and observe other laws.

    This, indeed, is why the state exists, and has for thousands and thousands of years.

    You think that "ignoring them" is either novel or likely to succeed? Gee, why didn't we think of ignoring them before...

    And you have the gall to suggest that those of us who don't join in with that infantile solution are tainted by Common Core?

    Get a grip
    Why quote someone, when you don't address the meat of their argument?

    Governments rely overwhelmingly on voluntary submission and compliance. (Theye can't confiscate cryptocurrencies conventionally!)

    "When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor." ("Painful" and "dangerous" don't necessarily mean deadly! Modern technologies -- like video or the internet -- offer plenty of peaceful means of deterrence and defense.)

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    What if we all start a return to normal life now that the government says the worst of the pandemic is behind us? What if we all make conscious choices to move about as before or to stay sheltered, based on our own exercise of our own informed free wills and not on the basis of governmental edicts? What if each of us decides if it is healthier to breathe in fresh air from outside or recycled air from under a mask?

    What if massive numbers of us make these decisions on our own?

    What if the governors' edicts don't really carry the force of law? What if governors have assumed the power to tell us how to live from either out of thin air or from unconstitutional and outdated state laws?

    What if it is profoundly unconstitutional for a state legislature to give its law-making powers to the state's governor? What if, when that happens, all the governors' edicts based on that attempted passage of power are null and void? What if we simply behave in a manner that shows we understand that these edicts are unlawful?

    What if high school and college athletes play their fall sports without regard to gubernatorial edicts? What if public school superintendents and college and university presidents open up outdoor venues for folks to decide on their own whether they want to stay home or come out and watch a football game or a soccer match?

    What if the police, many of whom have school- and college-age children, cheer on the athletes and join the observers at these games? What if they do so notwithstanding any commands from their superiors because these commands are unlawful, and they know it is unlawful to obey an unlawful command?

    What if restaurants served their full complement of customers and folks became so happy that restaurants were again jammed? What if restaurant owners and customers made these choices on their own?

    What if small businesses borrow money from banks — flush with cash because interest rates are so artificially low — and use those funds to restart their businesses? What if customers of those businesses choose to patronize them? What if shopping malls reopened and permitted folks to walk wherever their fancy took them?

    What if fire and police and EMS and health care workers all joined in a mass exposition of personal liberty in our once-free society? What if the governors who have restrained us lose so much support that only the folks whom they have frightened to death listen to them? What if this resurgence of freedom uplifts our spirits, reunites us as a nation and is a step toward the realization of our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

    What if — as Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence — our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are inalienable? What if an inalienable right can only be taken away in a free society for violating someone else's rights, and only after a conviction by a fair jury trial? What if an inalienable right — sometimes called a natural right — cannot morally or constitutionally or legally be taken away by a governmental edict or by legislation or even by a referendum?

    What if inalienable rights are integral to each person's humanity?

    What if the whole purpose of an independent judiciary is to be anti-democratic? What if its purpose is to preserve and protect the life, liberty, property and pursuit of happiness of those whom the government targets because it hates or fears them?

    What if life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were not just Jefferson's musings for a free people but are the bedrock moral, constitutional and legal values of America, established in 1776, renewed whenever any government employee — from janitor to president — takes an oath of office, and are the foundation of all American laws?

    What if each person's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is each person's choice as to the exercise and pursuit of those rights?

    What if we have other inalienable rights such as the freedom of speech, the right to assemble peacefully, the right to worship, the right to travel and to self-defense, the right to fairness from the government, the right to take chances, the right to own and enjoy property, and the right to be left alone?

    What if government workers join in a massive civil disobedience of local and state rules governing personal behavior on private property? What if the governors who have been controlling us realize that they have no real support and thus have become toothless?

    What if when government fails to protect inalienable rights, we simply ignore it?

    What if ignoring the government is a pipe dream? What if most folks are afraid of the government? What if only a few in government take seriously the lofty language about the government deriving all its just powers from the consent of the governed?

    What if the government uses force to enforce its unlawful decrees? What if the government uses each crisis to expand its power? What if when the crisis passes, the government retains the power it took during the crisis? What if the history of American government is the history of governmental power growing and personal liberty decreasing?

    What if we ignore the government at our peril? What if when government tramples our rights, we alter or abolish it? What if the time to do that is coming? What if that time is here? What if — as Jefferson wrote — when the people fear the government there is tyranny? What if when the government fears the people, there is liberty?


    http://www.judgenap.com/post/what-if...the-government
    I don't think anyone has added yet: Some people in some places attempt this -- with some being more successful than others.

    IIRC, there were businesses in Louisiana defying the unconstitutional order, and they had their utilities cut. (I think they won in an expedited court case, but you don't hear much mention of that on propaganda stations. I tried to find a link, but all I can come up with are articles about utility cut-offs being suspended.)

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    I don't think anyone has added yet: Some people in some places attempt this -- with some being more successful than others.

    IIRC, there were businesses in Louisiana defying the unconstitutional order, and they had their utilities cut. (I think they won in an expedited court case, but you don't hear much mention of that on propaganda stations. I tried to find a link, but all I can come up with are articles about utility cut-offs being suspended.)
    + REP

    I do not know anything about this, but if the utilities were cut, and the effort stalled, there are many solutions to energy, individually or by voluntary cooperation.

    Around here, though not many, coops do exist.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    + REP

    I do not know anything about this, but if the utilities were cut, and the effort stalled, there are many solutions to energy, individually or by voluntary cooperation.

    Around here, though not many, coops do exist.
    Disobey [publicly?] enough, and r3v-3 is right, though.

    Anyone ever watch Sense8? There was a great scene in there where the black dude was talking about his mom fending off multiple potential attackers, armed with only a knife. (No one was hurt, because none of them wanted to be the first to die!)

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    Disobey [publicly?] enough, and r3v-3 is right, though.

    Anyone ever watch Sense8? There was a great scene in there where the black dude was talking about his mom fending off multiple potential attackers, armed with only a knife. (No one was hurt, because none of them wanted to be the first to die!)
    I have many everyday life examples which proves r3v-3 wrong and cannot be rebutted. Not to say that it would not happen, and that it has not happened, but it definitely can be done. Keep an open mind and be true to yourself.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    Why quote someone, when you don't address the meat of their argument?

    Governments rely overwhelmingly on voluntary submission and compliance. (Theye can't confiscate cryptocurrencies conventionally!)

    "When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor." ("Painful" and "dangerous" don't necessarily mean deadly! Modern technologies -- like video or the internet -- offer plenty of peaceful means of deterrence and defense.)
    That's certainly true, but it's also true that human beings overwhelmingly submit and comply voluntarily.

    There is no reason to suppose that this will ever change.

    Mass civil disobedience is extremely rare for a reason.

    It's a nice dream, but that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    See above

    By the way, PAF, we get along well and I do respect your opinions, however much we disagree on this topic.

    Mea culpa if I was a little rude in the last response.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-25-2020 at 06:43 PM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    That's certainly true, but it's also true that human beings overwhelmingly submit and comply voluntarily.

    There is no reason to suppose that this will ever change.

    Mass civil disobedience is extremely rare for a reason.

    It's a nice dream, but that's all.
    There are so many "laws" that everyone inevitably commits civil disobedience, whether they know it or not. (I couldn't find the original source for that article!)

    Did the protests and rallies suddenly stop after the election?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Mass civil disobedience is extremely rare for a reason.

    And yet is does happen.
    Ever seen a Prison Riot? (Looks a lot like Portland)
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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