‘Nation’ magazine Ponders Seccession of Democrat-run States

[Anti Federalist]

Please go.


Left-wing ‘Nation’ Ponders Seccession of Democrat-run States

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...at-run-states/

Joel B. Pollak 29 Sep 2020

The Nation, a storied left-wing magazine, pondered the possibility of secession in an interview published Tuesday morning.

The idea has been circulating on the left over the past few weeks, as Democrats ponder the possibility of President Donald Trump being re-elected. Though many mainstream media polls show former Vice President Joe Biden with a lead, the polls have been wrong before — and Trump is running a confident, energetic campaign, while Biden is barely leaving his house.

The interview, “Should the United States Stay United?“, conducted by Jessica Suriano with Richard Kreitner, author of Break It Up: Secession, Division, and the Secret History of America’s Imperfect Union, focuses on the idea that secession need not be tarnished by slavery. Abolitionists, Kreitner argues, also considered seceding from the Union — and progressives should consider it today:

JESSICA SURIANO: Why did you think it was important in this book to address all of these other separatist movements that have happened in the past and across the political spectrum?

RICKY KREITNER: Of course everybody’s heard about the Confederacy and slavery, and it started my historical research, but that’s not really where the book came from. It came from this late-Obama-era moment where the thought occurred to me just based on things I’d been reading: What if the United States broke apart? Would that be such a bad thing? Is it possible that the progressive policies and programs that I wanted to see put into place might be easier to enact in a smaller entity than the United States, with its 330 million people and the need to always convince people with very different attitudes and interests? So with that question, I was curious if anybody else in American history had favored secession for noble or progressive reasons—not to perpetuate slavery but even to oppose it.

The answer, I quickly found, is yes: There were disunion abolitionists who were fiercely against slavery and who wanted the northern states to secede from the union in the 1840s and 1850s as a way not only to protest slavery but to undermine it. Taking in their arguments and their rhetoric was really, really interesting. One of the places I started was with this convention that took place in Worcester, Mass., in January of 1857. It was summoned by a bunch of abolitionists right after the first presidential election in which the Republican Party ran a candidate, John C. Fremont, who was opposed to slavery. A lot of Republicans had said that the fate of the Republic, of the union, and then of freedom itself depended on Fremont’s victory. When that didn’t occur, the Republicans were ready to just try again in four years, but the hard-core abolitionists said, “Well, what about everything you were just talking about?” They thought the fate of the Republic was at stake; if so, maybe it was time to end the union. That rhetoric really appealed to me in the fall of 2016, when Trump won, and it was like, “Wow, is a country that elects Trump possibly worth saving?”

Read the full interview here.

After the 2016 election, there was a surge in interest in secession in deep-blue California — so much so that the president pro tem of the state senate used his speech at the opening of the new legislature to discourage the idea.

But it seems to have returned: Lanny Davis, an adviser to the Clintons, tweeted a satire last week that others had been circulating on the Internet:

1) DEAR RED STATES; WE'RE LEAVING.
We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, we're taking the other Blue States with us…that includes Hawaii, Oregon, California, New Mexico, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, and all the Northeast.

— Lanny Davis (@LannyDavis) September 26, 2020

The original post suggested that blue states secede and leave the red states to suffer on their own, hypothetically.

[phill4paul]

Good. As Progressives have noted Confederates were traitors and history should be cleansed of them. So, go ahead. I look forward to burning down their cities and stealing what wealth they have. As well erasing them from history.

[Anti Globalist]

Please do so. All the smart people want nothing to do with blue states.

[tod evans]

Something is going to give...

Is it better to spell it out in advance or fight over the spoils?

[Gumba of Liberty]

The Blue States will do what the Crown (and the Crown’s Banks) tells them to do. They don’t control the political gears of the interior (Red States) but the City of London has dealt with rebellious nations before (think Germany). If we defeat them via elections they will turn to secession and attempt to blockade our ports (classic British tactic). The city/suburban sheep will starve and they will try to send in the UN to “liberate” America from a “tyrannical” leader. The playbook is well known to those that study history.

[XNavyNuke]

Herr Doktor Davis - it's not states, its the cities stoopid. Maybe we can expect a cultural revolution as the city mouse re-educates its rural rubes.

XNN

[XNavyNuke]

* duplicate

[Pauls' Revere]

This has my full support. How can I help? Pack their bags? gofundme one way tickets? what?

[Pauls' Revere]

[sic]

The interview, “Should the United States Stay United?“, conducted by Jessica Suriano with Richard Kreitner, author of Break It Up: Secession, Division, and the Secret History of America’s Imperfect Union, focuses on the idea that secession need not be tarnished by slavery. Abolitionists, Kreitner argues, also considered seceding from the Union — and progressives should consider it today:


No kidding, many on the right, Independents & Libertarians have said this. But its the left that always brought up slavery to associate those with a desire to secede "peacefully" as racist. Thus, were stuck in a terrible marriage between team red & team blue, one of which the other blames is a schizophrenic spouse.

[XNavyNuke]

[sic]
No kidding, many on the right, Independents & Libertarians have said this. But its the left that always brought up slavery to associate those with a desire to secede "peacefully" as racist. Thus, were stuck in a terrible marriage between team red & team blue, one of which the other blames is a schizophrenic spouse.

The sad things is that hyperpartisanship is thought to be something new in American politics. Those opinions continue because of maleducation of the youth.

The “Notorious” Hartford Convention
https://www.ctexplored.org/the-notor...rd-convention/

It was in this atmosphere of long-standing partisanship, the failures and misery of the war and the heavily strained bonds of national unity, that the seeds of the Hartford Convention sprouted. In October, leading New England Federalists began advocating a regional meeting to air their many grievances. When they agreed to gather in Hartford at the beginning of December, word immediately got out. In early November the Connecticut Courant published a series of articles headlined, “What is expected of the Convention at Hartford. What it can do and what it ought to do.”

It didn't help that New England, tight fisted money managers that they were, found themselves saddled with a war debt. A pitifully small fraction of the GDP relative to where we sit today.

XNN

[r3volution 3.0]

I understand the desire to see your political enemies leave the union, but this would really and truly be a disaster. It would involve massive violence and massive economic disruption. How is the national debt to be divided up? How are the inter-state supply chains going to function? What happens to military bases (hello Fort Sumter)? No one should be hoping for this outcome, especially when the difference between the parties is so trivial. Bloody civil war for...gay cakes (or the absence thereof)! Ludicrous

[tod evans]

I understand the desire to see your political enemies leave the union, but this would really and truly be a disaster. It would involve massive violence and massive economic disruption. How is the national debt to be divided up? How are the inter-state supply chains going to function? What happens to military bases (hello Fort Sumter)? No one should be hoping for this outcome, especially when the difference between the parties is so trivial. Bloody civil war for...gay cakes (or the absence thereof)! Ludicrous

No need for blood, diving up debt etc.

Simply stop feeding the cities, they'll come to heal rather quickly.

Even in the land of fruits-n-nuts the farmers are fed up, Ill. the same, farmers are sick and tired of Cook county and it wouldn't take much, Mish. and Mn. can't stand their cities, Mo. has to deal with KC and St.Louis, shut off the beef. Wa. and Or. cities might survive for a while unless the fishermen joined the farmers but by and large they're cut from the same cloth and are liable to join the cause....I'd imagine the fishing crowd on the right coast feels the same.......

All those people stacked on top of each other hive-minding their grand ideas could use a reality check. What do they have to offer anyway?

It's not so much parties, it is and has always been rural vs urban.

[r3volution 3.0]

No need for blood, diving up debt etc.

Simply stop feeding the cities, they'll come to heal rather quickly.

Even in the land of fruits-n-nuts the farmers are fed up, Ill. the same, farmers are sick and tired of Cook county and it wouldn't take much, Mish. and Mn. can't stand their cities, Mo. has to deal with KC and St.Louis, shut off the beef. Wa. and Or. cities might survive for a while unless the fishermen joined the farmers but by and large they're cut from the same cloth and are liable to join the cause....I'd imagine the fishing crowd on the right coast feels the same.......

All those people stacked on top of each other hive-minding their grand ideas could use a reality check. What do they have to offer anyway?

It's not so much parties, it is and has always been rural vs urban.

Yes, but I'd rather not see that cultural tension become an actual war.

Everybody wants radical solutions until they actually arrive.

People in 1913 were sick to death of peace; they thought war would be rejuvenating. Instead, their world ended and they died.

[Pauls' Revere]

I understand the desire to see your political enemies leave the union, but this would really and truly be a disaster. It would involve massive violence and massive economic disruption. How is the national debt to be divided up? How are the inter-state supply chains going to function? What happens to military bases (hello Fort Sumter)? No one should be hoping for this outcome, especially when the difference between the parties is so trivial. Bloody civil war for...gay cakes (or the absence thereof)! Ludicrous

I would think The Articles of Confederation would be a good starting point. Also, probably take a few lesson's from Brexit. It can and does happen. Just wish it could be peaceful. I don't understand the anxiety of letting go. Doing so empowers others so possibly its a selfish act to hold on. That's my pop pysch for the night.

[r3volution 3.0]

I would think The Articles of Confederation would be a good starting point. Also, probably take a few lesson's from Brexit. It can and does happen. Just wish it could be peaceful. I don't understand the anxiety of letting go. Doing so empowers others so possibly its a selfish act to hold on. That's my pop pysch for the night.

It's fun when it's on the news, less so when the water and power are shut off and there's gunfire outside your house.

We'll see, perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps people want this.

[Pauls' Revere]

It's fun when it's on the news, less so when the water and power are shut off and there's gunfire outside your house.

We'll see, perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps people want this.

I could see it being done in phases. No reason the switch has to flipped at midnight on some given day. Imagine a phased program over three years? Could also serve to allow people to move out of one place and into another.

[Anti Federalist]

It's fun when it's on the news, less so when the water and power are shut off and there's gunfire outside your house.

We'll see, perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps people want this.

Is that so surprising? Right now roughly half the country wants an economic system that will have them eating pets and circus animals to survive and wiping their ass with leaves, inside of five years or so.

[Anti Federalist]

I understand the desire to see your political enemies leave the union, but this would really and truly be a disaster. It would involve massive violence and massive economic disruption. How is the national debt to be divided up? How are the inter-state supply chains going to function? What happens to military bases (hello Fort Sumter)? No one should be hoping for this outcome, especially when the difference between the parties is so trivial. Bloody civil war for...gay cakes (or the absence thereof)! Ludicrous

The national government is in the same place, more or less, that the USSR was in circa 1985.

Why is war and destruction and bloodshed a foregone conclusion?

The might military machine of the USSR got up and walked home when the money ran out one day in 1990.

The same thing might happen here.

[ammodotcom]

Blue state secession would turn into a mass exodus. States are not monoliths – even California is surprisingly red once you look outside LA and the Bay Area. And as soon as these states found themselves without a very important demographic – tax payers, who know how to fix engines and grow food – they might find themselves up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

[Swordsmyth]

Blue state secession would turn into a mass exodus. States are not monoliths – even California is surprisingly red once you look outside LA and the Bay Area. And as soon as these states found themselves without a very important demographic – tax payers, who know how to fix engines and grow food – they might find themselves up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

We will need to insist on keeping the red counties if it happens.
And insist on a limited amount of time for the former Americans to reclaim their citizenship and return to our territory from blue counties.

[Swordsmyth]

[Swordsmyth]

I understand the desire to see your political enemies leave the union, but this would really and truly be a disaster. It would involve massive violence and massive economic disruption. How is the national debt to be divided up? How are the inter-state supply chains going to function? What happens to military bases (hello Fort Sumter)? No one should be hoping for this outcome, especially when the difference between the parties is so trivial. Bloody civil war for...gay cakes (or the absence thereof)! Ludicrous

All that and worse is coming if there is no split.
And this is not about cakes, this is about communism, globalism and totalitarianism.
Meanwhile we can deal with each of the issues you mention without bloodshed if the left will agree to do so, if they do not then war and bloodshed are inevitable and when we win we will keep all the land and expel the survivors.

[Swordsmyth]

The Blue States will do what the Crown (and the Crown’s Banks) tells them to do. They don’t control the political gears of the interior (Red States) but the City of London has dealt with rebellious nations before (think Germany). If we defeat them via elections they will turn to secession and attempt to blockade our ports (classic British tactic). The city/suburban sheep will starve and they will try to send in the UN to “liberate” America from a “tyrannical” leader. The playbook is well known to those that study history.

Perfidious Albion will fail, just as they did in 1775 and 1812.

[classtaco]

Go for it, you are smart and rightful.

[tod evans]

It's fun when it's on the news, less so when the water and power are shut off and there's gunfire outside your house.

We'll see, perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps people want this.

There's gunfire outside just about every day........Deer and turkey season is rolling up..

Countless grosses of arrows being fired too, they're silent though....

The big-bore muzzle-loaders make a satisfying kerthrump unlike any modern cartridge.