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Thread: Murder Charge For Not Wearing A Mask?

  1. #1

    Murder Charge For Not Wearing A Mask?

    Murder Charge For Not Wearing A Mask?



    A Nashville, TN councilwoman has proposed charging anyone not wearing a mask with either murder or attempted murder. Is it any wonder violence, anger, and fear is spreading even as coronavirus deaths continue to decline? Why are they doing this? Also today, dentists report a surge in cavities and gum disease among people wearing masks. Kansas health official busted faking charts to falsely inflate effectiveness of mask-wearing. Big motorcycle rally in South Dakota - no masks!
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    At the 20:38 mark, there is a good discussion about fake statistics being put out by officials to make everything look worse than it is.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    They want the obedient marked (masks) and the disobedient chastised, shamed, and potentially arrested so that they become obedient. It's obviously not about keeping people safe, reducing spread of the virus. It never was, never will be.

    Wear your mask if you want to be part of the same evil you are currently trying to fight.

  5. #4
    It is the mask mandaters that should be charged with attempted murder.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    They want the obedient marked (masks) and the disobedient chastised, shamed, and potentially arrested so that they become obedient. It's obviously not about keeping people safe, reducing spread of the virus. It never was, never will be.

    Wear your mask if you want to be part of the same evil you are currently trying to fight.

    You must sacrifice liberty in order to achieve it. /s
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  7. #6
    Imagine the uproar if someone suggested a law saying gay or bisexual men who had sex without a condom, regardless of whether or not they knew they had HIV were guilty of attempted murder.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Imagine the uproar if someone suggested a law saying gay or bisexual men who had sex without a condom, regardless of whether or not they knew they had HIV were guilty of attempted murder.

    California Governor Jerry Brown signed into law Senate Bill (SB) 239, which reduces penalties for knowingly exposing a sexual partner to HIV.
    Under current California law, it is felony offense punishable by 3 to 8 years in prison. The new law, which was signed by Brown on Oct. 6 and takes effect January 1, changes this to a misdemeanor, carrying a 6-month prison term — the same punishment as knowingly exposing someone to other communicable diseases.

    The law also reduces the penalty for knowingly donating blood infected with HIV from a felony to a misdemeanor.
    Democrats Scott Wiener and Todd Gloria authored the legislation, which was passed in the Senate in May, and approved by the Assembly in early September. The measure was co-sponsored by more than 130 advocacy organizations, including Equality California, the ACLU of California, APLA Health, Black AIDS Institute, Lambda Legal and Positive Women’s Network–USA.
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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

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  9. #8
    where i live a council person publicly proposing that would be in danger of being burnt to the ground which i would expect may put forward an example for the others



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    California Governor Jerry Brown signed into law Senate Bill (SB) 239, which reduces penalties for knowingly exposing a sexual partner to HIV.
    Under current California law, it is felony offense punishable by 3 to 8 years in prison. The new law, which was signed by Brown on Oct. 6 and takes effect January 1, changes this to a misdemeanor, carrying a 6-month prison term — the same punishment as knowingly exposing someone to other communicable diseases.

    The law also reduces the penalty for knowingly donating blood infected with HIV from a felony to a misdemeanor.
    Democrats Scott Wiener and Todd Gloria authored the legislation, which was passed in the Senate in May, and approved by the Assembly in early September. The measure was co-sponsored by more than 130 advocacy organizations, including Equality California, the ACLU of California, APLA Health, Black AIDS Institute, Lambda Legal and Positive Women’s Network–USA.
    Right. But note that those laws only apply if you know you have HIV. I'm talking about someone who, for all he knows, is HIV negative being charged with murder simply for having unprotected sex.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #10
    Democrats would love to make it law that if you don't wear a mask and you get someone sick you're getting charged charged with murder.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Democrats would love to make it law that if you don't wear a mask and you get someone sick you're getting charged charged with murder.
    Both parties "win".

    Dems and their citizen welfare and violent laws, Repubs with their corporate welfare and police state. Both "sides" work hand-in-hand like wings of a bird.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Right. But note that those laws only apply if you know you have HIV. I'm talking about someone who, for all he knows, is HIV negative being charged with murder simply for having unprotected sex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being without intent of doing so, either expressed or implied. It is distinguished from voluntary manslaughter by the absence of intention. It is normally divided into two categories, constructive manslaughter and criminally negligent manslaughter, both of which involve criminal liability.
    What constitutes "criminal negligence" is very subjective and would be usually difficult to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt (particularly the criminal part) but with something like HIV you can have:
    a) I'm a virgin who has never shared needles and just got tested and came back negative
    b) I'm a virgin who has never shared needles
    c) I just got tested for HIV and it came back negative
    d) I got tested for HIV recently (negative), but not before doing some low risk behavior
    e) I got tested for HIV recently (negative), but not before doing some high risk behavior

    etc, etc.

    As you keep going down the list the chance of you having HIV increases. Where do we put the responsibility on the person to inform their sexual partner of their HIV risk? For the most part I feel this should be more of a civil than criminal issue but we should not be putting others in danger from HIV or COVID.

    As for COVID, with its prevalence everyone who interacts with the world particularly in certain areas is taking part in a COVID-spreading structure if they don't wear masks, etc. I do think it is an act of aggression (in the sense of putting others at risk) by being part of this network and not taking the necessary precautions. It's kind of like drunk driving. While you can drive drunk a bunch of times and cause no harm, what you are doing is increasing the risk of innocent people who themselves are not part of the problem (sober drivers, mask wearers). I love freedom as much as the next person but there is a reciprocal nature to it (blowback) - if everyone is using their freedom to spread COVID, we end up being slaves to COVID and under physical threat by the virus. So at some point I do think we have to draw the line for the sake of both personal and national defense which I do think is one of the things which there is a point of having government involvement in. I think the question is just where. Unless you think it's okay to cough in the faces of old people.

    I don't know about everyone else here, but personally I am more concerned with indefinite detentions for protesting (Marxist or not) than I am for the government trying to stop people from putting others in public danger. Of course in private do whatever you want as long as the other person is okay with it but if they aren't, that's aggression.
    Last edited by Anti-Neocon; 08-13-2020 at 10:43 AM.
    Trump hates liberty.

    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.

  15. #13
    Had a Internet tech come to the house yesterday. I told him he didn't have to wear a face diaper for me. Said he had to, got in trouble before for not wearing it.
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ N
    IƎ⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Neocon View Post
    What constitutes "criminal negligence" is very subjective and would be usually difficult to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt (particularly the criminal part) but with something like HIV you can have:
    a) I'm a virgin who has never shared needles and just got tested and came back negative
    b) I'm a virgin who has never shared needles
    c) I just got tested for HIV and it came back negative
    d) I got tested for HIV recently (negative), but not before doing some low risk behavior
    e) I got tested for HIV recently (negative), but not before doing some high risk behavior

    etc, etc.

    As you keep going down the list the chance of you having HIV increases. Where do we put the responsibility on the person to inform their sexual partner of their HIV risk? For the most part I feel this should be more of a civil than criminal issue but we should not be putting others in danger from HIV or COVID.

    As for COVID, with its prevalence everyone who interacts with the world particularly in certain areas is taking part in a COVID-spreading structure if they don't wear masks, etc. I do think it is an act of aggression (in the sense of putting others at risk) by being part of this network and not taking the necessary precautions. It's kind of like drunk driving. While you can drive drunk a bunch of times and cause no harm, what you are doing is increasing the risk of innocent people who themselves are not part of the problem (sober drivers, mask wearers). I love freedom as much as the next person but there is a reciprocal nature to it (blowback) - if everyone is using their freedom to spread COVID, we end up being slaves to COVID and under physical threat by the virus. So at some point I do think we have to draw the line for the sake of both personal and national defense which I do think is one of the things which there is a point of having government involvement in. I think the question is just where. Unless you think it's okay to cough in the faces of old people.

    I don't know about everyone else here, but personally I am more concerned with indefinite detentions for protesting (Marxist or not) than I am for the government trying to stop people from putting others in public danger. Of course in private do whatever you want as long as the other person is okay with it but if they aren't, that's aggression.
    Do you feel that people who are walking around with simple cloth masks are potentially guilty of murder?


    https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
    Objective The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.

    Setting 14 secondary-level/tertiary-level hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam.

    Participants 1607 hospital HCWs aged ≥18 years working full-time in selected high-risk wards.

    Intervention Hospital wards were randomised to: medical masks, cloth masks or a control group (usual practice, which included mask wearing). Participants used the mask on every shift for 4 consecutive weeks.

    Main outcome measure Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

    Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

    Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

    Trial registration number Australian New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry: ACTRN12610000887077.

    This is an Open Access article distributed in accordance with the Creative Commons Attribution Non Commercial (CC BY-NC 4.0) license, which permits others to distribute, remix, adapt, build upon this work non-commercially, and license their derivative works on different terms, provided the original work is properly cited and the use is non-commercial. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/


    Understand what the study is saying. 97% of particles get through a typical cloth face covering. Yet...we're told "Just throw on a face covering. It'll be fine!" Note that the authors of this 2015 study were pressured into "updating" it to say that the results don't apply to COVID 19. Oh really? Why is that?

    Going back to your drunk driving analogy it would be like there was a law that said it was okay to drink beer before driving but not whisky. On the HIV analogy, someone who was HIV positive could use a lambskin condom covered in non-oxydol-9 and be protected from liability the same way using a latex condom would protect from liability (contrived hypothetical) while ignoring the fact that lambskin condoms don't protect against HIV.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Had a Internet tech come to the house yesterday. I told him he didn't have to wear a face diaper for me. Said he had to, got in trouble before for not wearing it.
    Another tech invited me onto a job where he was going to split the $100 fee for installing two cameras in a Verizon store. I thought "Great! Easy $50 for an hours work." We got kicked off the job because the first tech wouldn't wear a facemask. He was like "It's okay. They'll still pay me for the first visit." But I didn't get paid.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Do you feel that people who are walking around with simple cloth masks are potentially guilty of murder?
    I wouldn't call anything murder unless you have the intent to kill (even toxic people coughing in others faces to troll them about their fears are not "murderers" per se if their motivation ends there), but they could do better.

    Duke particle release from mouth test shows that cloth masks are much better than nothing (link)

    https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 ...
    Understand what the study is saying. 97% of particles get through a typical cloth face covering.
    It's not that simple. What they did was test to see how much sodium chloride (salt) particles were blocked when projected at the mask. Obviously the cloth masks didn't do very well but this situation isn't exactly simulating COVID.

    Yet...we're told "Just throw on a face covering. It'll be fine!"
    Generally, it seems that medical folks are saying we will be less unfine if more people wear masks. Reduce the danger and risk, not just "wear masks, snap your fingers, and COVID will disappear".

    Note that the authors of this 2015 study were pressured into "updating" it to say that the results don't apply to COVID 19. Oh really? Why is that?
    Probably because people were applying it to COVID when the test isn't the greatest proxy for COVID protection performance. Certain people are politically motivated to try to disparage mask-wearing. It's really stupid but it happens.

    Going back to your drunk driving analogy it would be like there was a law that said it was okay to drink beer before driving but not whisky. On the HIV analogy, someone who was HIV positive could use a lambskin condom covered in non-oxydol-9 and be protected from liability the same way using a latex condom would protect from liability (contrived hypothetical) while ignoring the fact that lambskin condoms don't protect against HIV.
    Even though it is purely hypothetical that cloth masks don't protect against COVID, it wouldn't be their fault if they were fed information to the contrary. Almost everyone has something to cover their face with and almost everyone knows that COVID exists and you can potentially block it, so choosing not to do so is on a different level. You are volunteering to be a part of a spreader network.
    Last edited by Anti-Neocon; 08-13-2020 at 10:28 PM.
    Trump hates liberty.

    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.



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  20. #17
    charging anyone not wearing a mask with either murder or attempted murder.
    That's obviously absurd, but the principle that a person should be held liable for negligently infecting another person is perfectly sound.

    Actually implementing such a rule in practice is a problem, though, as @Anti-Neocon points out.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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