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Thread: NRA downfall thread

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, it's an infringement, but to what degree? They have almost no useful purpose, with the possible exception of entertainment.

    I think his point was that is a very weak example of infringements, based on the degree of the infringement, rather than binary decision of whether it is or is not an infringement.
    Maybe if I just take a little bit of your money....maybe if I just put you in a half nelson choke hold instead of full nelson one. Maybe If I just devalue your dollar a itsy bit. It's all degree.....

    lol.....Go liberty...
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever..... just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Maybe if I just take a little bit of your money....maybe if I just put you in a half nelson choke hold instead of full nelson one. Maybe If I just devalue your dollar a itsy bit. It's all degree.....

    lol.....Go liberty...
    Yes, there are degrees of liberty. More liberty is better than less. A 1% tax is better than a 90% tax. That doesn't mean a 1% tax is justified, it just means that I would prefer to live in a more free society than a less free society.

    If you would prefer to live in a less free society, then by all means, continue believing that a 1% tax is as bad as a 90% tax.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Yes, there are degrees of liberty. More liberty is better than less. A 1% tax is better than a 90% tax. That doesn't mean a 1% tax is justified, it just means that I would prefer to live in a more free society than a less free society.

    If you would prefer to live in a less free society, then by all means, continue believing that a 1% tax is as bad as a 90% tax.
    The problem isn't believing your strawman..the problem is that people like you go "meh" when they start taking 1% or putting stipulations on guns....then we get boiled slowly like a little froggy until 50% tax seems reasonable.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever..... just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  6. #34
    Matt you should not celebrate this.
    They want to abolish the 2A
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Super Joe Biden is already draining the swamp?

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    The problem isn't believing your strawman..the problem is that people like you go "meh" when they start taking 1% or putting stipulations on guns....then we get boiled slowly like a little froggy until 50% tax seems reasonable.
    Trump lowered taxes, slashed regulations and installed conservative judges that will help protect 2a in local municipalities and has significantly increased liberty in this country on the whole - compared to before - but ESPECIALLY compared to if Hillary won and installed anti-2a judges, increased regulations and increased taxes - started more wars - forced national lockdowns during COVID, etc, etc..

    It is really a no-brainer when it comes to government harm reduction which direction we need to be going right now. That was NEVER the case when we had Romney/McCain/Bush running as Republicans, which is why Ron Paul always referred to them as the lesser of the evils. Trump isn't evil, he is a good person who isn't perfect but would undoubtedly be a lot more inline with our views here if he had the ability to do so while maintaining power and taking out the deep state. But he can only do so much within the system we currently have, with our media. It's called strategy - a strategy for government harm reduction.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump lowered taxes, slashed regulations and installed conservative judges that will help protect 2a in local municipalities and has significantly increased liberty in this country on the whole - compared to before - but ESPECIALLY compared to if Hillary won and installed anti-2a judges, increased regulations and increased taxes - started more wars - forced national lockdowns during COVID, etc, etc..

    It is really a no-brainer when it comes to government harm reduction which direction we need to be going right now. That was NEVER the case when we had Romney/McCain/Bush running as Republicans, which is why Ron Paul always referred to them as the lesser of the evils. Trump isn't evil, he is a good person who isn't perfect but would undoubtedly be a lot more inline with our views here if he had the ability to do so while maintaining power and taking out the deep state. But he can only do so much within the system we currently have, with our media. It's called strategy - a strategy for government harm reduction.
    Trump is more good than bad, he is the least of all possible goods.

    He is also the best option we have right now.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Yes, there are degrees of liberty. More liberty is better than less. A 1% tax is better than a 90% tax. That doesn't mean a 1% tax is justified, it just means that I would prefer to live in a more free society than a less free society.

    If you would prefer to live in a less free society, then by all means, continue believing that a 1% tax is as bad as a 90% tax.
    Okay. Let's say we NEVER had an income tax but had super high tariff and excise taxes. Then someone like Trump, without repealing any of the excise taxes or tariffs, introduced a "tiny" 1% income tax while floating the idea of raising it to 50% and NEVER taking a step to cut taxes even though he promised to do that when he ran for president. Because...that's what Trump did. He infringed on the 2nd amendment in a whole freaking new way! By executive order! Nobody has EVER banned a gun accessory by executive order before Trump. Obama rescinded Reagan era anti gun executive orders on guns in National Parks and on AMTRAK. Guess who has already taken inspiration from Trump's idea? Kamala Harris! And today she took one step closer to being POTUS. Console yourself that Biden/Harris won't win. They might not. But I GUARANTEE you the GOP won't keep the presidency forever. And look at what Trump has floated. Red flag laws. Assault weapons bans. (Before and after being president.) So no. This isn't a "degree of liberty." Liberty is when you are moving in the RIGHT direction. This is a degree of tyranny.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump is more good than bad, he is the least of all possible goods.

    He is also the best option we have right now.
    How many frigin' times have I heard this mind numbing lock step brain dead logic impaired $#@!tard platitude since 2008?
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever..... just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    There are more guns than people in this country. There basically are no gun restrictions for anyone who isn't a felon despite the constant clamoring for more gun laws. The NRA might the most effective lobbying group in history.

    Serious question. What freedom would you personally like with guns that isn't currently available?
    I would like to "bear" my firearm on me without having to pay $120 every five years to take a class and then pay ANOTHER $100 to my sheriff to receive my "permit".
    I would like to "bear" ANY firearm on me at any time without infringement.
    Oh, and I would like to own full automatic firearms.

    The RIGHT of the people to KEEP and BEAR arms shall NOT be infringed.

    - ML

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    How many frigin' times have I heard this mind numbing lock step brain dead logic impaired $#@!tard platitude since 2008?

    "You must spread some Reutation around..."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Landon View Post
    I would like to "bear" my firearm on me without having to pay $120 every five years to take a class and then pay ANOTHER $100 to my sheriff to receive my "permit".
    I would like to "bear" ANY firearm on me at any time without infringement.
    Oh, and I would like to own full automatic firearms.

    The RIGHT of the people to KEEP and BEAR arms shall NOT be infringed.

    - ML
    GET adress in SD.
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ N
    IƎ⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump is more good than bad, he is the least of all possible goods.

    He is also the best option we have right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    How many frigin' times have I heard this mind numbing lock step brain dead logic impaired $#@!tard platitude since 2008?

    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    "You must spread some Reutation around..."

    Not to mention the complete contradiction in that one sentence alone. Had it not been for knowing the posters habits, I would not have been able to make heads or tails out of it.

    I will go with last part: "he is the least of all possible goods."
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  16. #43
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ N
    IƎ⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Landon View Post
    I would like to "bear" my firearm on me without having to pay $120 every five years to take a class and then pay ANOTHER $100 to my sheriff to receive my "permit".
    I would like to "bear" ANY firearm on me at any time without infringement.
    Oh, and I would like to own full automatic firearms.

    The RIGHT of the people to KEEP and BEAR arms shall NOT be infringed.

    - ML
    So it costs you $40 a year to legally own guns? Wow. Totalitarian. And having to take a basic gun safety course sounds just like Nazi Germany. It costs $150 a year to legally drive a car plus insurance.

    Should anyone be able to legally own as much ammonium nitrate or other bomb making material as they want? How about nuclear weapons? There will always be a line on what people can legally own. Fully automatic weapons seems like a reasonable place to draw it.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 08-13-2020 at 03:42 PM.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    So it costs you $40 a year to legally own guns? Wow. Totalitarian. And having to take a basic gun safety course sounds just like Nazi Germany. It costs $150 a year to legally drive a car plus insurance.
    Show me where in the US Constitution, or more specifically the Bill of RIGHTS, it lists the costs of exercising your inalienable rights? I'll wait......

    - ML

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Landon View Post
    Show me where in the US Constitution, or more specifically the Bill of RIGHTS, it lists the costs of exercising your inalienable rights? I'll wait......

    - ML
    I mean... The Second Amendment is one sentence and the first for words are...

    "A well regulated militia.."

    You didn't have to wait too long. 3 bucks a month is not onerous or prohibitive to anyone wants to own a firearm.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 08-13-2020 at 05:11 PM.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    So it costs you $40 a year to legally own guns? Wow. Totalitarian. And having to take a basic gun safety course sounds just like Nazi Germany. It costs $150 a year to legally drive a car plus insurance.

    Should anyone be able to legally own as much ammonium nitrate or other bomb making material as they want? How about nuclear weapons? There will always be a line on what people can legally own. Fully automatic weapons seems like a reasonable place to draw it.

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ N
    IƎ⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    There are more guns than people in this country. There basically are no gun restrictions for anyone who isn't a felon despite the constant clamoring for more gun laws. The NRA might the most effective lobbying group in history.

    Serious question. What freedom would you personally like with guns that isn't currently available?
    Short barrelled rifles and suppressors should be available without the Uncle Sugar stamp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I mean... The Second Amendment is one sentence and the first for words are...

    "A well regulated militia.."

    You didn't have to wait too long. 3 bucks a month is not onerous or prohibitive to anyone wants to own a firearm.
    That's not what well regulated means and the reason given doesn't alter the prohibition on infringement.
    And the obvious line to draw is not at automatic weapons, that is military grade weaponry that the militia (composed of all free men) are intended to have access to.
    If we are going to draw a line it should be at WMDs which are strategic weapons and not arms as known to the founding fathers.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    hmmm, engineers, pilots, etc. get certified. Should we do away with that? I know some people here hate to acknowledge it, but one of the biggest reason air travel is as safe as it it is today...pilot unions. They formed during early aviation days because so many pilots were dying delivering mail.

    Most safety features today installed in modern aircraft were from demands of union airline pilots. And they continue to fight for safety. In so many ways.
    To confirm, occupational licensure, even though it's sole purpose is to limit competition and is a drain on the economy, is just great. That isn't an infringement. Also airline unions are wonderful even though they bankrupt almost airline. Those are not tyranny.

    But paying three dollars a month for a gun license is statist bootlicking?

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's not what well regulated means and the reason given doesn't alter the prohibition on infringement.
    And the obvious line to draw is not at automatic weapons, that is military grade weaponry that the militia (composed of all free men) are intended to have access to.
    If we are going to draw a line it should be at WMDs which are strategic weapons and not arms as known to the founding fathers.
    exactly

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If we are going to draw a line it should be at WMDs which are strategic weapons and not arms as known to the founding fathers.
    Yes, this what I have always determined the line to be as well.

    All arms available to the individual infantryman, should equally be available to every citizen. That would include select fire rifles, SAWs, grenades, anti tank and anti aircraft weapons.

    This would include crew served weapons as well, assuming funding was available...tanks, artillery, ships, you name it.

    NBC weapons of mass destruction should not only be aggressively prohibited for citizens, but governments as well.

    We are currently living through the nightmare that can be caused by government playing fast and loose with viral pathogens.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Should anyone be able to legally own as much ammonium nitrate or other bomb making material as they want?
    You already can.

    Half a cup of vaporized gasoline renders the explosive force of six sticks of dynamite.

    Oxygen and acetylene properly mixed, forms a thermobaric bomb of incredible power.

    I could go on and on like that.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You already can.

    Half a cup of vaporized gasoline renders the explosive force of six sticks of dynamite.

    Oxygen and acetylene properly mixed, forms a thermobaric bomb of incredible power.

    I could go on and on like that.

    You should never have told him that. He won't be able to sleep at night now.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

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