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Thread: NRA downfall thread

  1. #1

    NRA downfall thread

    Looks like pro-gun supporters are finally starting to see the NRA for what it really is

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN2532X1
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    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #2
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  4. #3
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  5. #4
    Rival Gun Group Accuses NRA of Never Supporting The 2nd Amendment:


    https://www.newsweek.com/rival-gun-r...awsuit-1523713
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  6. #5
    NRA spent thousands of covert dollars to keep Wayne in power


    https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/nra-...erre-in-power/
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  7. #6
    FL NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer faces ethics hearing:

    https://www.floridabulldog.org/2020/...ssion-hearing/




    Payments to FL NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer flagged in lawsuit:

    https://www.politico.com/states/flor...st-nra-1305464
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  8. #7
    They were always a 5th column. Anytime we truly needed a gun organization to step up and rally the people, they were nowhere to be found. But they are happy to collect donations and give us the illusion they have our back on the 2nd amendment. Nope.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    They were always a 5th column. Anytime we truly needed a gun organization to step up and rally the people, they were nowhere to be found. But they are happy to collect donations and give us the illusion they have our back on the 2nd amendment. Nope.

    Based on what? There hasn't been any real gun control legislation passed in decades. Gun control and tax cuts are basically the two issues Republicans don't compromise ever on. Given that they are the only major gun group with influence in Washington, it seems like they are pretty effective.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Based on what? There hasn't been any real gun control legislation passed in decades. Gun control and tax cuts are basically the two issues Republicans don't compromise ever on. Given that they are the only major gun group with influence in Washington, it seems like they are pretty effective.
    This.

    When I started this journey back in 1980, there was serious talk of a nationwide handgun ban, concealed carry was unheard of, let alone "constitutional carry", violent crime was out of control, and the second amendment, as a matter of law, was a dead letter.

    I'm not a great fan of NRA (although I did rejoin recently) for all the reasons that I'm sure people here, are aware of.

    That said, I'm not about to jump up and cheer as they get destroyed by some politically motivated Marxist hack in New York.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    NRA spent thousands of covert dollars to keep Wayne in power
    Does that mean 'drain the swamp' has been finally started few weeks before elections and all those using covert dollars to stay in power are being brought down...
    or this is being done selectively for political purposes ?

  13. #11
    In my experience, even organizations with the best intentions eventually succumb to the corruption of power lust. Really good people lose their way when given power. It is really sad. I do not depend on anyone or any group to advocate for good purposes.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Rival Gun Group Accuses NRA of Never Supporting The 2nd Amendment:


    https://www.newsweek.com/rival-gun-r...awsuit-1523713
    VIRUS LADEN!

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Based on what? There hasn't been any real gun control legislation passed in decades.
    Gun control and tax cuts are basically the two issues Republicans don't compromise ever on. Given that they are the only major gun group with influence in Washington, it seems like they are pretty effective.
    Red flag confiscation laws and Trump telling the ATF to ban bump stocks. The NRA actually supports these outright infringements. So yes, Republicans do compromise on the 2nd Amendment all the time.

    Not to mention, when was the last time Republicans, at least federally, repealed any gun control legislation?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  16. #14
    New York’s Actions Against the NRA Are an Omen of Things to Come

    https://amgreatness.com/2020/08/09/n...rce=whatfinger

    The NRA should serve its members. But it should not, in fighting for its members, also have to fend off trumped-up charges and draconian remedies aimed at silencing its message.

    By Christopher Roach • August 9, 2020

    This week New York’s Attorney General, Letitia James, sought to dissolve the National Rifle Association. She took this action ostensibly to pursue a claim of financial mismanagement. But the real reasons are obvious: the NRA is the preeminent defender of the Second Amendment, and the Left—and New York leftists in particular—really hate guns. In her earlier role as New York’s public advocate, James sought to strong-arm banks into dropping their business with gun manufacturers following the Pulse nightclub shooting in 2016.

    While the motive is obvious from the remedy being sought, the underlying allegations have some merit. The NRA has been serving the interests of its executives more than its members. Oliver North tried unsuccessfully to set the organization on the road to financial reform last year. The guys in charge seem to have forgotten who they work for.

    As an NRA member, I was disappointed, though hardly shocked, by these developments. This is a common problem in the nonprofit world, where greed, self-dealing, and lax accounting are masked by the language of serving the public interest. We’ve seen it with everything ranging from Wounded Warrior Foundation’s lavish spending on what were essentially vacations for the leadership to the Kid Wish Foundation, which only spent three cents of every dollar on fulfilling the wishes of dying children.
    A Dangerous Precedent

    While the government is certainly within its rights to look into fraud, the government’s investigative powers are not supposed to be used for low partisan purposes. In addition to the obvious potential for abuse, there was, until recently, a concern for “mutually assured destruction.” If New York is dissolving the NRA, why couldn’t Alabama shut down the scandal-ridden Southern Poverty Law Center? What private group would be safe from government harassment?

    The Left does not seem terribly devoted to restraint, nor do leftists seem concerned about payback. They focus on power and winning, and their actions suggest they believe their hold on power is only going to become more substantial and less contested in the near future.

    This is why Obama’s IRS brazenly shook down Tea Party groups while treating the Clinton Foundation with kid gloves. This is also why the whole crew behind the Russian collusion investigation did what they did. They thought their movement was ascendant, that Hillary Clinton would win the White House, and that their corrupt misuse of government power would never be discovered. Even now, they still treat President Trump as a temporary anomaly. In a place like New York City, left-wing Democrats are nearly untouchable, giving us a preview of what they would do to the nation as a whole if given the chance.

    This is not unknown territory. Politics has always been a bare-knuckle sport, and in the 19th and early 20th centuries the spoils system, outright cheating, voter suppression, and backroom deals were how things got done. Outside of electoral politics, anarchism and labor violence tore apart places like Chicago and Colorado. Three American presidents were assassinated between 1865 and 1901.

    The ideals of a loyal opposition and the peaceful transition of power, along with limits on the use of government power for narrowly partisan purposes, were the product of a short-lived interregnum during the middle of the 20th century. While the 1960s convulsed the nation, a silent majority did elect both Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. While they each faced political battles, their rights to the traditional powers of the office were not in question. Bipartisanship reflected a consensus on a wide range of domestic and foreign policy positions.
    Politics Has Been Getting Rough

    Starting with the 2000 election, we began to see signs of significant fracturing, along with an unwillingness to transfer power peacefully. This is somewhat forgotten because George W. Bush was briefly buoyed by the feelings of national unity after the 9/11 attacks. Prior to that, he faced inaugural protests and boycotts. The close Florida election devolved into a battle of lawyers that went to the U.S. Supreme Court. He was, in the words of his enemies, “selected not elected.”

    After Bush’s narrow victory, new principles were announced that the Electoral College itself was illegitimate and that the popular vote was more important. This rhetoric was deployed again in 2016 against President Trump—this time with the connivance of certain Republicans alarmed at his populism.

    For all their faults, the New Deal Democrats had limited aims. Both they and the Republicans respected the peaceful transition of power, because of their implicit respect for the American people and their choice. Close elections and messianic politics have brought that to an end. Today’s Left does not believe in being a loyal opposition, because leftists do not accept the possibility there can be a range of reasonable disagreement or that they may not be ascendant.

    The very term “progressivism” implies that history has a particular direction, as well as a moral dimension. The Left’s electoral defeats have been blamed on cheating, foreign interference, and, when all that fails, are taken as a sign that the “deplorable” American people themselves do not deserve to rule themselves.

    The older principle of a loyal opposition was superior, however, and not simply for the party that was out of power. Because fortunes change and today’s opposition may be tomorrow’s party in power, it is also a story of enlightened self-interest, where each side exercises restraint and fair play. But a loyal opposition can only exist in a more limited and less strife-ridden political environment, where many questions are off-limits and a large swath of matters are left to private choice.

    That is to say, the more genteel politics of the 20th century arose from the fact that we actually were a united people, that our political disagreements took place within a particular range, and that government activity was bound both by the Constitution, as well as an unwritten constitution written into the character of the American people. The latter included such hoary chestnuts as “What you think is your business,” “A man’s home is his castle,” and “An honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay.”
    Freedom of Association as Core American Principle

    This Americanism used to include the idea that people had a right to voluntary association and to petition their grievances. In other words, Americans used to respect the right of grassroots groups to organize out of their concern for an issue, whether that concern was their right to bear arms, the abortion debate, or to stay out of foreign wars. These groups were mostly off-limits to harassment by those in power, as both sides of political debates respected the principle of voluntary association. Certainly, no one thought they could be targeted for destruction by a state attorney general.

    Indeed, private groups that had extensive corruption—such as the Teamsters—were never disbanded, even when subject to government investigations under federal racketeering laws. In that case, the union was placed under receivership for a period. Notably, the government’s remedy included a vote by Teamster members to restore the leadership’s accountability to the organization’s members.

    America’s gun owners deserve a lobbying organization that is effective, a good steward of its resources, and focused on its mission. The NRA would be just fine without Wayne LaPierre or any of its other leaders. Its power comes not from its executives or its lobbyists’ rhetorical skills, but its large and motivated membership. The NRA should serve its members. But it should not, in fighting for its members, also have to fend off trumped-up charges and draconian remedies aimed at silencing its message.

    We know from the pretextual harassment of churches and the destruction of small businesses in recent months that the government can be merciless in the hands of fanatic ideologues. The evolution of the Left into a combination of old-style corruption and modern ideological fanaticism is a symptom of a nation with little in common and little love between divergent factions.

    The Second Amendment expresses the American Founding generation’s wariness of centralized power and unwillingness to depend on the good faith of one’s political opponents. In other words, it is a doomsday option for use in emergencies when ordinary political activity becomes impossible. Attacking an organization devoted to protecting gun rights reminds us of what is increasingly apparent: the Left wants to remove all obstacles to its consolidation of power and intrusion into the private lives of ordinary Americans.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    In my experience, even organizations with the best intentions eventually succumb to the corruption of power lust. Really good people lose their way when given power. It is really sad. I do not depend on anyone or any group to advocate for good purposes.
    Yep. Doesn't matter who the “charity” or non-profit is. Could be the Red Cross or UNICEF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    ...As an NRA member, I was disappointed, though hardly shocked, by these developments. This is a common problem in the nonprofit world, where greed, self-dealing, and lax accounting are masked by the language of serving the public interest. We’ve seen it with everything ranging from Wounded Warrior Foundation’s lavish spending on what were essentially vacations for the leadership to the Kid Wish Foundation, which only spent three cents of every dollar on fulfilling the wishes of dying children.

    A Dangerous Precedent

    While the government is certainly within its rights to look into fraud, the government’s investigative powers are not supposed to be used for low partisan purposes. In addition to the obvious potential for abuse, there was, until recently, a concern for “mutually assured destruction.” If New York is dissolving the NRA, why couldn’t Alabama shut down the scandal-ridden Southern Poverty Law Center? What private group would be safe from government harassment?...
    I must have missed when they dissolved the Soviet Poverty Lie Center after they were found to be hopelessly corrupt.
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Red flag confiscation laws and Trump telling the ATF to ban bump stocks. The NRA actually supports these outright infringements. So yes, Republicans do compromise on the 2nd Amendment all the time.

    Not to mention, when was the last time Republicans, at least federally, repealed any gun control legislation?
    Exactly my point. The fact that those are the kinds of examples you use shows how the gun debate has been settled by the right.. Those aren't real infringements. Red flags probably make sense if you restrict it to mental illness. A person with Alzheimer's doesn't have the right to own a gun anymore than a blind person has the right to drive. The only reason to oppose them is if you are worried about sticking the camel's nose under the tent and it opening up the debate for real laws that would restrict gun ownership.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 08-10-2020 at 01:35 PM.



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  20. #17


    The NRA supports gun grabbing bushbot libtard progressives(R) like this. ^^^^^^^
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    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Exactly my point. The fact that those are the kinds of examples you use shows how the gun debate has been settled by the right.. Those aren't real infringements.
    Incorrect.

    Banning bump stocks is an infringement, clearly.

    And red flag laws, specifically those without due process (the ability to have representation in court), are blatantly unconstitutional. No one is saying that people who are crazy or diminished mental capacity shouldn't have firearms. But there is a process that has to be followed as the Constitution demands.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  22. #19
    Where was the NRA when a majority of our 2nd amendment rights were attacked and then infringed in all 50 states over the last 100 years? I'm seeing a virtually useless organization that did little to do the very thing they set out to do, protect our rights. We put our faith into them and the drastic reduction of our rights is the reward. It's up to individuals to protect their rights, not some autonomous body. It will be better for all of us when we reassert our God given rights individually, rather than hoping some hero organization will be there to bail us out.

    Look at the Republicans, the Libertarian party, the Tea Party in earlier months of it before it got co-opted. These groups always fail us every single time. They have allowed all the the wrong with the country right now to happen under their watch, despite being "better" than Democrats. People rail about this on a daily basis on these forums. Faith in each other as people and not in institutions is what will bring some amount of future prosperity to the nation and to the world. Continued faith in corrupted institutions that get hijacked by people that hate and despise you will lead us exactly where we are headed right now until we change our behavior and our mindset, implosion.

  23. #20
    There are definitely problems with the NRA, lots of them. But if they go down will gun rights be better off? I'm skeptical. GOA is too ideological and radical to get in the annals of lobbying power in Washington. No one else has the name recognition. The fall of the NRA might well be a net negative.
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  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    GOA is too ideological and radical to get in the annals of lobbying power in Washington.
    That's not how it works.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    There are definitely problems with the NRA, lots of them. But if they go down will gun rights be better off? I'm skeptical. GOA is too ideological and radical to get in the annals of lobbying power in Washington. No one else has the name recognition. The fall of the NRA might well be a net negative.
    Good point... hard to say tho.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    Where was the NRA when a majority of our 2nd amendment rights were attacked and then infringed in all 50 states over the last 100 years? I'm seeing a virtually useless organization that did little to do the very thing they set out to do, protect our rights.
    There are more guns than people in this country. There basically are no gun restrictions for anyone who isn't a felon despite the constant clamoring for more gun laws. The NRA might the most effective lobbying group in history.

    Serious question. What freedom would you personally like with guns that isn't currently available?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Banning bump stocks is an infringement, clearly.
    Ya, it's an infringement, but to what degree? They have almost no useful purpose, with the possible exception of entertainment.

    I think his point was that is a very weak example of infringements, based on the degree of the infringement, rather than binary decision of whether it is or is not an infringement.
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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Serious question. What freedom would you personally like with guns that isn't currently available?
    NH is one of the most free states in the nation WRT to firearms, so what a lot of people in other states have to suffer through does not infringe on me.

    I'd like to see repeal of all banned/taxed/restricted firearms in both NFA of 1934 and GCA of 1968.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler

  30. #26
    Background checks are infringements. Having to register your firearm are infringements. Wait times on purchasing guns are infringements. Differing degrees of this exist in every single state. All of these and more need to be restored to their original state, or the 2nd amendment and NRA cease to be useful short of slowing down the decline and eventual elimination of our 2nd amendment rights. Unlikely to happen and will continue as it always has, a slow trickle of degradation.

    Do what you have to do and what makes sense for you. Invest in them (a lot of your money will end up going to RINO politicians that you despise), support them, rally around them in some way, maybe they will change and actually grow a spine and fight a fight that matters one day and stop, not slow down the erosion of our liberties, but I'm not counting on it. The only thing I know I can count on is me, you, and We The People as individual sovereigns, and that's already got it's own share of problems, but it's the best we got.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, it's an infringement, but to what degree? They have almost no useful purpose, with the possible exception of entertainment.

    I think his point was that is a very weak example of infringements, based on the degree of the infringement, rather than binary decision of whether it is or is not an infringement.
    It's the principle and the precedent. This was done by executive order and over the objection of the ATF. Yeah you can "bump fire" with a belt loop. So what's to stop the next democratic president from saying "Any gun that you can bump fire with a belt loop is in effect a machine gun?" Don't say that can't happen. We have a SCOTUS that just declare "sexual orientation" to equal gender for the purposes of the 1964 civil rights law.
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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  32. #28
    Colin Noir on his split with the NRA. I can't believe the screwed this up. Then again...I do.

    One of the biggest NRA-TV stars "I learned about NRA-TV going down through an article." SMH!



    Colin Noir while he was still with the NRA.

    Last edited by jmdrake; 08-11-2020 at 06:28 AM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    There basically are no gun restrictions for anyone who isn't a felon What freedom would you personally like with guns that isn't currently available?
    Uh you must not be a gun owner. The inability to own suppressors or full autos without a mountain of paperwork is an infringement. The inability to own incendiary devices is an infringement. And as another poster pointed out, background checks, waiting periods, etc are all infringements. The ATF as an organization is an infringement that shouldn't exist.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, it's an infringement, but to what degree?
    Doesn't matter. The 2nd Amendment doesn't list degrees of infringement. It says NO infringement.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

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