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Thread: Trump officially and bigly violates the Constitution with his vote-buying Executive Orders

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Deferred? So past payroll taxes will have to be paid?
    Yes, that is correct.

    That's what this EO does, is temporarily suspend withholding of payroll tax.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler



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  3. #32

    Question Got Gold Teef yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    (eta: After full review of the orders, the constitutionality of the EOs is questionable, since what the Trumpkins claim they do isn't exactly what they do. I should know better than to react to the Trumpkin fake news headlines )


    Congratulations America, you've successfully turned over the country to a vote-buying dictatorship.

    It's signed. The President has no authority whatsoever to direct spending that is not appropriated by the Congress but who cares as long as some imaginary Fedbux show up. Conservatives

    But be sure to vote real hard this coming election to avoid those pesky vote buying socialist Democrats!
    The Helicopter Communism - Free Green Money Deal is extremely popular with the "Severely Conservative" Mitt, dubya/Jeb! progressive Wealth Spread neocon liberals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    Thanks for dumbing it down. He's leaving it up to the states to do it. I agree.
    The catch is that it is then up to the Governors to decide if they want to use the money received (whenever they actually receive it, no one seems to think about that part) to pay the additional unemployment payments or if they'd rather use it for something else, like bailing out their pension funds. This looks sort of like it could be a stealth bailout of the state budgets like Chuck and Nancy wanted, but on a smaller scale.

    I can see tons of people getting behind this. Probably a decent amount of democrats. Maybe not the congress critter dems, but the voting dems
    Sure, if holding people hostage for their vote over a completely fake emergency is cool with you.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    The catch is that it is then up to the Governors to decide if they want to use the money received (whenever they actually receive it, no one seems to think about that part) to pay the additional unemployment payments or if they'd rather use it for something else, like bailing out their pension funds. This looks sort of like it could be a stealth bailout of the state budgets like Chuck and Nancy wanted, but on a smaller scale.



    Sure, if holding people hostage for their vote over a completely fake emergency is cool with you.
    Are you sure the money is given with no strings attached? It doesn't specifically have to go for UE?

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    Are you sure the money is given with no strings attached? It doesn't specifically have to go for UE?
    No offense intended man, but I posted the link to the EO in the thread. Feel free to read it and find the answer to your question.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    He seems very political and election centric despite being an "outsider accomplished businessman" non-politician.

    As thigs stand, payroll debt benefit and other exec action benefits will need be paid off after election. Is it time realese socialism?
    Vaccine cure will be found very close to election date, per his statement last week.
    Troops from Afghanistan will be home by election date ( there were 8400 when he took office, 8600 there today).
    I wouldn't put it past the uniparty to require vaccination as the condition to forgive back taxes owed.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, the payments are deferred, I presume they use that terminology because they are programs that still requires funding.

    If we re-elect Trump he is saying he may defer them again in 2021, but Biden won't.
    So he’s holding America hostage. “Either vote for me, or you are going to have a ton of back taxes to pay Uncle Sam.”

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's simple, they will be deferred again and again until a Republican Congress eliminates them or Trump simply cancels them.

    Nobody is going to dare send a big bill to millions of Americans.
    and there was a Democrat candidate who wanted ALL student loans forgiven. Bernie and Warren wanted this.

    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    You "guys" have the market cornered on transexual satan worshipping anarchists

    "Our Enemy, The State" by Albert Nock. https://famguardian.org/Publications...bertJKnock.pdf

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's simple, they will be deferred again and again until a Republican Congress eliminates them or Trump simply cancels them.

    Nobody is going to dare send a big bill to millions of Americans.

    Your absolute faith in the federal government to do something that is at least temporarily beneficial for regular people is touching. Utterly foolish and hopelessly, dangerously naive, but touching nonetheless.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by KEEF View Post
    So he’s holding America hostage. “Either vote for me, or you are going to have a ton of back taxes to pay Uncle Sam.”

    I know, right?

    But he's on our side. No really. Quit that laughing now...
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    No offense intended man, but I posted the link to the EO in the thread. Feel free to read it and find the answer to your question.
    " I am directing up to $44 billion from the DRF at the statutorily mandated 75 percent Federal cost share be made available for lost wages assistance to eligible claimants, to supplement State expenditures in providing these payments."
    That says go to those for lost wages

    "To ensure that those affected by a loss in wages due to COVID-19 continue to receive supplemental benefits for weeks of unemployment ending no later than December 27, 2020,"

    "if the Governor requests lost wages assistance and agrees to administer delivery and provide adequate oversight of the program, for a major disaster I declared"

    The EO states lost wages over and over again

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Exactly. A "deferral" or "deferment" means to put the payment off untill a later date, NOT cut or forgive the payment entirely. So what happens at the end of the year then? Those granted "deferrals" have to make a lump sum payment? Big favor. Go Trump.
    Uh, no, they don't. You are 100% wrong as usual.

    It's like if you get a deferral on your car payments, and you still have to pay off the car, but you don't have to pay all your payments you missed when the deferral is up, you just have to make your monthly payments longer into the future.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-08-2020 at 10:45 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    With "Republicans" like Donald, who needs Democrats? You Alinsky LARPers are doing a fantastic job turning conservatives into fellow communists, without them even realizing it. Well played LARPers, well played. Pushing vote buying writ large, and making traditional Dem vote buying look downright amateurish. Better to hold much of the country hostage than just poor minorities, eh?
    You're the one arguing to not lower taxes, I have no idea why you shouldn't be called the Democrat.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh, no, they don't. You are 100% wrong as usual.

    It's like if you get a deferral on your car payments, and you still have to pay off the car, but you don't have to pay all your payments you missed when the deferral is up, you just have to make your monthly payments longer into the future.

    Buy a $#@!ing dictionary.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  18. #45
    No time to look into this, but let me guess:

    "Trump trolls, people freak out."

    Obviously he can't do any of this by executive order. But the Democrats are now in the position of opposing aid to common workers.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    No time to look into this, but let me guess:

    "Trump trolls, people freak out."

    Obviously he can't do any of this by executive order. But the Democrats are now in the position of opposing aid to common workers.
    They appear to have been opposed to the smaller amount, which is different than being opposed to giving aid.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by KEEF View Post
    So he’s holding America hostage. “Either vote for me, or you are going to have a ton of back taxes to pay Uncle Sam.”
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    I know, right?

    But he's on our side. No really. Quit that laughing now...
    LOL

    TDS is funny, not taking your money and saying he is going to make sure it is no longer taken from you ever again is not holding anyone hostage.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    TDS is funny, not taking your money and saying he is going to make sure it is no longer taken from you ever again is not holding anyone hostage.
    The President has the authority to postpone the collection of the payroll tax under the Internal Revenue Code (specifically section 750 8A), but not the power to forgive those taxes. That authority has been given only to Congress. The Executive Order acknowledges as much, stating: The Secretary of the Treasury shall explore avenues, including legislation, to eliminate the obligation to pay the taxes deferred pursuant to the implementation of this memorandum.

    He simply deferred them and then making you and me repay them unless Congress decides to forgive them.

    From the actual Executive Order:
    Sec. 4. Tax Forgiveness. The Secretary of the Treasury shall explore avenues, including legislation, to eliminate the obligation to pay the taxes deferred pursuant to the implementation of this memorandum.
    Exploring avenues does not mean forgiven.

    If he is re-elected, he can only continue the deferment until Congress does something on forgiving them. If he loses, we will be writing a check to Uncle Sam come April 15th if the dollar is still around then.

    SO YES, HE IS HOLDING MY TAX DOLLARS HOSTAGE FOR A VOTE.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Congratulations America, you've successfully turned over the country to a vote-buying dictatorship.
    I mean, are you surprised? The Presidency has been a source of unconstitutional power grabs since George Washington. And Trump is a leftist on economics and has a neocon view of the Constitution. If you are shocked by this you haven't paid attention. I knew this back in 2015.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Trump had the number "88" (8/8) surrounding him since he started campaigning (even before then)
    Some say 88 refers to Heil Hitler (another British Intelligence agent)…


    Because much of the order is vague, there isn’t much guaranteed…
    One of the measures Trump signed on Saturday aims to provide $400 in weekly unemployment aid for millions of Americans. Trump said 25 percent of this money would be paid by states, many of which are already dealing with major budget shortfalls. The federal contribution would be redirected from disaster relief money at the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Those funds are not likely to last more than two months, and Trump would not say when the benefits would kick in.
    (…)

    Trump also signed an executive order stating that it was U.S. policy to minimize evictions and foreclosures. The order does not reinstate the federal eviction moratorium that expired last month or fund the billions in assistance Democrats have said is necessary to help people already behind on their rent.
    Instead, the order calls on the Department of Health and Human Services and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to “consider” whether it was necessary to temporarily halt evictions. The Treasury Department and the Department of Housing and Urban Development “shall identify” federal funds to provide temporary assistance to renters and homeowners “who, as a result of the financial hardships caused by COVID-19, are struggling to meet their monthly rental or mortgage obligations,” the order says.

    “The President cannot create new money with an executive order. These EOs simply show the limitations of the President’s legal authority,” said Jack Smalligan, a former official at the Office of Management and Budget and now a senior policy fellow at the Urban Institute, a centrist think tank.
    http://archive.is/m1Y4u



    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Now let's mobilize to become a Constitutional Monarchy!
    The US is still a British Crown colony, not by Constitution but in practice: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6950701
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

    Donald Trump, another puppet controlled by the international elite: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/vie...=1038&start=60

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's simple, they will be deferred again and again until a Republican Congress eliminates them or Trump simply cancels them.

    Nobody is going to dare send a big bill to millions of Americans.
    But...they do....every year.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #52

    Exclamation Fauci/Trump COV19 on steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    TDS is funny, not taking your money and saying he is going to make sure it is no longer taken from you ever again is not holding anyone hostage.
    TDS is no laughing matter.



    Pray for the trumpkin shylls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh, no, they don't. You are 100% wrong as usual.

    It's like if you get a deferral on your car payments, and you still have to pay off the car, but you don't have to pay all your payments you missed when the deferral is up, you just have to make your monthly payments longer into the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You're the one arguing to not lower taxes, I have no idea why you shouldn't be called the Democrat.
    So....having to pay the same taxes off into the future = lowering taxes?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by KEEF View Post
    So he’s holding America hostage. “Either vote for me, or you are going to have a ton of back taxes to pay Uncle Sam.”
    Yes , I like it . Screwing the states to pay 25 percent of the unemployment bonus , since those $#@!s caused the unemployment by shutting down the economies , eliminating payroll deductions last quarter to be forgiven later . LOL . Seems like something I would do

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    No time to look into this, but let me guess:

    "Trump trolls, people freak out."

    Obviously he can't do any of this by executive order. But the Democrats are now in the position of opposing aid to common workers.
    Exactly

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    " I am directing up to $44 billion from the DRF at the statutorily mandated 75 percent Federal cost share be made available for lost wages assistance to eligible claimants, to supplement State expenditures in providing these payments."
    That says go to those for lost wages

    "To ensure that those affected by a loss in wages due to COVID-19 continue to receive supplemental benefits for weeks of unemployment ending no later than December 27, 2020,"

    "if the Governor requests lost wages assistance and agrees to administer delivery and provide adequate oversight of the program, for a major disaster I declared"

    The EO states lost wages over and over again
    Good on you for reading it and drawing your own conclusion. We need more of that overall. That's how productive discussions of policy happen instead of $#@! slinging over headlines. I should have waited to start this thread until after reading the EOs so I am guilty of it myself in this instance. Any way...

    Having said that, there is no enforcement mechanism mentioned if any money asked for and accepted is not used for that purpose. It is quite possible that this becomes a stealth bailout of state UE funds for another couple of months, with most people asking in a month "Where's that extra $400 we were promised?" That's speculation but there's still people wondering where their $1200 checks are. The Dems wanted to send money directly to state budgets to prop up their sagging UE budgets. This could accomplish that for a short period of time.

    Bigger picture: People still haven't figured out that any "benefit" offered by the feds and accepted by the people is actually a trap. There's no free lunch when it comes to gov and their banker handlers. No free lunches, always a catch (liability) in there somewhere.
    Last edited by devil21; 08-09-2020 at 12:06 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Just stop. For the love of god just stop. If you're going to insist that going around the Congress to decree "let them eat cake" is a-ok because of a contrived emergency, you have no business being on this forum any more. I remember when conservatives freaked over Obama saying "I have a phone and a pen" to get around Congress. Today? CRICKETS. Republicans/conservatives/most libertarians are a $#@!ing joke.
    Obama set the precedents that will define modern imperial presidencies.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    So....having to pay the same taxes off into the future = lowering taxes?
    Lowering income taxes, yes.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Buy a $#@!ing dictionary.
    I have an economics degree, I know what deferral means, you are just wrong because you were using the wrong definition. You were implying that we would get a tax deferral until the end of the year, at which point you would receive a tax bill for the amount you saved, which is incorrect. Let's say Jane pays $500 in payroll taxes per month, that would save her $3,000 this year. Jane is not getting a $3,000 tax bill at the end of the year. In fact, if enough Jane's vote for Trump, she might get to keep the $500 per month indefinitely, or at least half. If it is re-instated, she will continue to pay the money toward those programs which is why the payments are considered deferred, it is because those programs are still in existence and paying out benefits. But she won't suddenly have a tax bill come to back pay the $3,000 in taxes she saved in 2020.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-09-2020 at 01:45 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Cutting the unconstitutional federal tax rate in half during a pandemic emergency is unconstitutional? I'm pretty sure there is some emergency authorization that will allow him to do this. And if you think the emergency authorization is unconstitutional, well, I say the federal income tax is unconstitutional. So I guess we are at a constitutional stalemate where once side is arguing for a tax reduction and the other side is not. Why do you always choose to be on the wrong side?
    What about the part where Trump orders the continuation of unemployment benefits? Are you in favor of that?

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