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Thread: Trump officially and bigly violates the Constitution with his vote-buying Executive Orders

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    What about the part where Trump orders the continuation of unemployment benefits? Are you in favor of that?
    It is being reduced, and it's up to the states.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Obama set the precedents that will define modern imperial presidencies.
    Yep, that's the incrementalism at work, yet the GOP still hasn't picked up on it and praises Trump when he goes above and beyond everything Obama ever did and with nary a concern for what that incrementalism would mean once the pendulum inevitably swings back the other way.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I have an economics degree, I know what deferral means,
    Apparently not, since you keep calling it a tax cut, not a tax deferral. Using your example of a car payment, if your lender deferred your payments you would never say that the lender gave you a payment cut. That doesn't require spin or a dictionary. The difference is plainly obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    Some say 88 refers to Heil Hitler (another British Intelligence agent)…
    That makes sense for a lot of reasons. It's still interesting that such an action fell on that exact 8/8 day, since it was a Saturday and gov never does much of anything on the weekends. Makes me wonder what the long con is? Maybe tie tax forgiveness to vaccination....

    The US is still a British Crown colony, not by Constitution but in practice: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6950701
    Bingo. They've roped everyone into voluntarily serving as employees of their banking corporation under their 1871 Constitution instead of choosing to live under the founding 1789 Constitution. There are actually two Constitutions in effect right now. The original inherent rights version and the banker's corporate bylaws version.
    Last edited by devil21; 08-09-2020 at 02:57 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  4. #63
    Reading the fall of the OP's position was hilarious. Looks like all Trump can do legally is defer the taxes. You don't HAVE to defer, you can still pay but he is offering a relief to people in that they don't have to pay RIGHT NOW. In the end they will owe it because that is all he can do.

    TDS is way worse than Covid.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by RPtotheWH View Post
    Reading the fall of the OP's position was hilarious. Looks like all Trump can do legally is defer the taxes. You don't HAVE to defer, you can still pay but he is offering a relief to people in that they don't have to pay RIGHT NOW. In the end they will owe it because that is all he can do.

    TDS is way worse than Covid.
    What? Only the Alinsky LARPing Trumpers get to create false click-bait thread titles? No one else? lol
    The difference between me and the Alinsky LARPing Trumpers is I'm ok with admitting and correcting my mistakes, instead of doubling down on them to the point of ridiculousness like the LARPers do. I'm sure that's seen as some sort of weakness or fail by pathological liars, though.
    Last edited by devil21; 08-09-2020 at 04:14 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Obama set the precedents that will define modern imperial presidencies.
    Nope.

    Those precedents were set by W; Obama just followed what W put in place.
    There is no spoon.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It is being reduced, and it's up to the states.
    If it's up to the states why did he issue an executive order?

    What about the ban on tiktok and the executive order on stopping evictions?

    What happens when Biden gets elected and issues executive orders on slavery reparations, confiscating wealth, draconian regulations on businesses in the name of stopping covid? Will you be able to connect the dots?

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Exactly. A "deferral" or "deferment" means to put the payment off untill a later date, NOT cut or forgive the payment entirely. So what happens at the end of the year then? Those granted "deferrals" have to make a lump sum payment? Big favor. Go Trump.
    Don't know if it's a big favor but EO had Big Fonts and he sgned with a Big Marker.

    It's a "debt" that will need to be paid off after elections. If Progressive Socialism led GOP can take national debt tp $26.5 Trillion at warp speed, why can't taxpayers get in on some of the debt spend action.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    But...they do....every year.
    No, they do not.
    That's why withholding was invented.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    If it's up to the states why did he issue an executive order?

    What about the ban on tiktok and the executive order on stopping evictions?

    What happens when Biden gets elected and issues executive orders on slavery reparations, confiscating wealth, draconian regulations on businesses in the name of stopping covid? Will you be able to connect the dots?
    O'Bummer and SCOTUS already set that precedent, Trump may be trying to force SCOTUS to change it back.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #70
    https://twitter.com/3days3nights/sta...98857453129729

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, they do not.
    That's why withholding was invented.

    Spoken like someone who has never been self-employed.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Spoken like someone who has never been self-employed.
    My whole point is that the vast majority do NOT get a big bill and nobody will dare to send one to the vast majority.
    Those who run a business are not who is being discussed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    What? Only the Alinsky LARPing Trumpers get to create false click-bait thread titles? No one else? lol
    The difference between me and the Alinsky LARPing Trumpers is I'm ok with admitting and correcting my mistakes, instead of doubling down on them to the point of ridiculousness like the LARPers do. I'm sure that's seen as some sort of weakness or fail by pathological liars, though.
    Is this enhanced_deficit? The OCD, desperate to tie 4 things together TDS adjectives are always worth a laugh. The Natzees would be so proud of the online trolls with their repetitive nonsense. Repeat something enough...

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Nope.

    Those precedents were set by W; Obama just followed what W put in place.
    since we're being pedantic, lets roll back to Clinton.

    Incrementalism is what I was driving at, but I lost the map to the concept, fortunately devil knew the way.
    Last edited by bv3; 08-10-2020 at 01:01 AM.

  18. #75
    What will look worse to the average voter, standing up to a constitutional issue, or trying to take away people's extra unemployment? Whomever was on Trump's team who thought of this was pretty devious, wonder how long they planned this or if it was spur of the moment.

    Now offtopic :

    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    Some say 88 refers to Heil Hitler (another British Intelligence agent)…
    That's the first time I've seen that conspiracy theory.

    A quick search showed some strange coincidences

    https://www.businessinsider.com/88-d...-hitler-2020-7
    Trump's website has an $88 baseball

    And then

    88 and 2 (really 1) in ENDORSEMENTS this election cycle, and @foxNews
    was critical. Has anyone ever done so well? I doubt it! Steve D. @foxandfriends
    8:04 AM · Jul 15, 2020

    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  19. #76
    He's more than welcome to buy my vote. He'd be the FIRST president that tried to help this middle-class white boy out. It's sure better than voting for someone that wants me to pay slave reparations.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    If it's up to the states why did he issue an executive order?
    Trump made the money available. The states don't have to take it. Granted if they don't the Guv'nor will be ousted.
    It's a smart move.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    What will look worse to the average voter, standing up to a constitutional issue, or trying to take away people's extra unemployment? Whomever was on Trump's team who thought of this was pretty devious, wonder how long they planned this or if it was spur of the moment.

    Now offtopic :



    That's the first time I've seen that conspiracy theory.

    A quick search showed some strange coincidences

    https://www.businessinsider.com/88-d...-hitler-2020-7
    Trump's website has an $88 baseball

    And then

    88 and 2 (really 1) in ENDORSEMENTS this election cycle, and @foxNews
    was critical. Has anyone ever done so well? I doubt it! Steve D. @foxandfriends
    8:04 AM · Jul 15, 2020

    There's entire YT vids devoted to the 88/Trump connection. Look around. It starts to make a whole lot of sense with the vaccination push, appointing close Gates associates like Fauci to key "pandemic" positions who are pushing vaccines (Gates daddy was long time Planned Parenthood board chair, PP was started to control minority breeding....Melinda Gates: "Give the vaccine to blacks first.") Deep rabbit hole bro.
    Last edited by devil21; 08-10-2020 at 09:33 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  22. #79
    Ron Paul at 24:12 in the Liberty Report:

    "I want to talk a little bit about the budget debate going on right now. Another trillion dollars. Republicans, they'll be happy with a trillion, Democrats aren't happy. And it looks like things were going too slowly ... so Trump took care of that with an Executive Order. We'll just pass out this money, and then there is the big constitutional argument about "well, can he do that". Well, all presidents do that, and who paid any attention to the constitution? The Democrats are in a dilemma right now because they don't know what to do, "we have to hate what Trump did". But they are sort of trapped so they have to be against extending the benefits like Trump did.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkxaGVQyfrA
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  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, they do not.
    That's why withholding was invented.
    You still end up with millions of "delinquent" tax payers every year.

    https://abc13.com/archive/6645858/
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lowering income taxes, yes.
    If you have to pay the same amount of tax it's not "lowered."
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    If you have to pay the same amount of tax it's not "lowered."
    Fortunately you don't have to pay the same amount of income taxes, production is the worst thing you can tax.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You still end up with millions of "delinquent" tax payers every year.

    https://abc13.com/archive/6645858/
    Not like this would be, nobody is going to dare let it be undeferred and the longer Trump extends the deferral the more sure that is.
    Trump has also specified that he has instructed the Treasury to come up with options legislative or otherwise to cancel it permanently.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Spoken like someone who has never been self-employed.
    Actually, "withholding" was invented to turn every registered business into a voluntary unpaid tax collector for the government and the Fed (federal income taxes pay the interest on FRN denominated Treasury debt) and to ensure maximum compliance.
    Last edited by devil21; 08-11-2020 at 12:18 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  29. #85
    If he can cut taxes by doing this, can he also raise them?

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlerzzz View Post
    If he can cut taxes by doing this, can he also raise them?
    I don't know the answer to your question but it depends on if there's a statutory authority for the Executive to increase taxes in times of a "declared emergency" buried somewhere in the US Code. Trump's tax deferral derives from a statutory authority in US Code allowing the President to suspend and defer payroll tax for up to 12 months in times of a "declared emergency."

    (.gov is under some sort of declared emergency 24/7/365 any way, but that's probably for another thread)
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I don't know the answer to your question but it depends on if there's a statutory authority for the Executive to increase taxes in times of a "declared emergency" buried somewhere in the US Code. Trump's tax deferral derives from a statutory authority in US Code allowing the President to suspend and defer payroll tax for up to 12 months in times of a "declared emergency."

    (.gov is under some sort of declared emergency 24/7/365 any way, but that's probably for another thread)
    When has .gov done anything to increase liberty. I am not counting tiny little bones here and there to keep them coming back for more intrusive government.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    When has .gov done anything to increase liberty. I am not counting tiny little bones here and there to keep them coming back for more intrusive government.
    I feel ya but to TPTB what matters is generally what they have enshrined into the US Code (of Corporate Rules) so it's all "legal". Whether it's "lawful" is another issue entirely.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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