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Thread: $26 Trillion: FITCH lowers US credit rating to 'negative' after debt pileup...

  1. #1

    Exclamation $26 Trillion: FITCH lowers US credit rating to 'negative' after debt pileup...

    Maybe Tea Party was onto something when it boldly protested mounting national debt during years of big-gov progressive democrat Obama.
    H/T Drudge:


    2012: Tea Party Led Anti-Debt Protest

    FITCH lowers US credit rating to 'negative' after debt pileup...

    Bloomberg) -- One of the world’s major credit-rating companies fired a warning shot regarding the U.S.’s worsening public finances on Friday, just as lawmakers in Washington contemplate spending more to combat the economic fallout from the coronavirus pandemic.
    Fitch Ratings revised its outlook on the country’s credit score to negative from stable, citing a “deterioration in the U.S. public finances and the absence of a credible fiscal consolidation plan.”



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  3. #2
    Does the credit rating matter when the Federal Reserve buys all of the debt?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Does the credit rating matter when the Federal Reserve buys all of the debt?
    I'm clueless on this now as I'm still trying to reconcile old belief "budget defcits/big gummit spending/growng debt/spending beyond means is bad" with new "debt no longer matters" paradigm. Going to have to defer to someone from Tea Party fiscal gurus to explain why debt was so bad during Obama years but now no longer matters. One possible explanation could be Obama did not know how to type up tweets that pressure/intimidate/goad Fed Reserve into patriotic debt buying actions.. sheer speculation.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Does the credit rating matter when the Federal Reserve buys all of the debt?
    the credit rating has ben zero with me for a long time . these must be slow learners

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Does the credit rating matter when the Federal Reserve buys all of the debt?
    Everyone knows that the US will never default in nominal terms.

    The ratings agencies are effectively saying that the US will default in real terms, i.e. devalue the currency.

    ...which is and has been super-obvious for a very long time.

    These are the same rating agencies that had burning bags of dog crap at AAA until the morning Lehman went bankrupt.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    I'm clueless on this now as I'm still trying to reconcile old belief "budget defcits/big gummit spending/growng debt/spending beyond means is bad" with new "debt no longer matters" paradigm. Going to have to defer to someone from Tea Party fiscal gurus to explain why debt was so bad during Obama years but now no longer matters. One possible explanation could be Obama did not know how to type up tweets that pressure/intimidate/goad Fed Reserve into patriotic debt buying actions.. sheer speculation.
    The sickening response I got from a MAGA-hat wearing old fart (R®) with a few of his friends heads nodding in agreement: Trump cares about us, democrats are evil. And then he asked me which "side" I was on. He didn't know what an Agorist is so I got dismissed pretty quickly.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The sickening response I got from a MAGA-hat wearing old fart (R®) with a few of his friends heads nodding in agreement: Trump cares about us, democrats are evil. And then he asked me which "side" I was on. He didn't know what an Agorist is so I got dismissed pretty quickly.
    This whole "2 sides" fiasco is about having everybody fight each other so that no one pays attention to what's really going on.
    There is no spoon.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The sickening response I got from a MAGA-hat wearing old fart (R®) with a few of his friends heads nodding in agreement: Trump cares about us, democrats are evil. And then he asked me which "side" I was on. He didn't know what an Agorist is so I got dismissed pretty quickly.
    I think it is this post from me that has ED flummoxed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Trump is recommending. Biden's Bolshies WILL mandate. There is no question about that...the only question is what else will mandated, vaccines, blood draws, tracker chips, god only knows what.

    $6 trillion of "stimulus"...LOL...you're worried about that? That's a drop in the bucket...there's $30 trillion on the table, another $60 trillion in next month's mail...that's absurd, black hole sun level debt...it will never get paid.

    If you are foolish enough to be holding US government debt, you will be paid in one these three ways:

    We'll pay you back with inflated dollars and kiss our ass.

    We'll renege entirely and kiss our ass.

    We'll bomb you debt holders into atoms and kiss our ass.


    Partisan? Possibly...regardless of what Trumpocrisies you may point out, what the Bolshies have in store for us will be worse.

    I already addressed the debt above...that is of even less importance than freedom to most AmeriKunts...nobody cares.

    But the maskhole mandates are substantive in this regard: they took a presumption that, for decades and study after study has been understood as true, i.e widespread wearing of masks in public, outside of a clinical environment, provide no real protection against airborne illnesses, and turned it on its head.

    And achieved almost 100 percent compliance with a lie.

    And just like the lie that having government agents grope your child's genitals will protect you from "terror" it is now a fait accompli, a done deal, the "new normal"...forever.

    And that's a big deal.

    I've made it clear I intent to vote for Trump in the fall.

    I've laid out very specific reasons for doing so...that doesn't mean I have to rah rah his name in every post...he's done plenty of stupid $#@! as well...but I don't have to mention that in every post either because there are plenty of people here, like you, who are very quick to point that out, over and over again.

    Bashing the Bernie-Biden-Bolsheviks...that, on the other hand, is something that needs to be done every second of every day.

    On a personal financial level I will be ruined if they were to come to power...and it will be the third time in my life I will have been put out of business by government.
    He seems to think that just because I'm now LOL-ing at the Ludicrous Speed of debt accumulation now being undertaken, that I don't care.

    It wasn't a big deal to me under OBombYa and it isn't now.

    We all know how it is going to end.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler



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  11. #9
    I was always under the assumption CONgress wrote spending bills? Best a president can do is veto, but that can be overwritten.
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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The sickening response I got from a MAGA-hat wearing old fart (R®) with a few of his friends heads nodding in agreement: Trump cares about us, democrats are evil. And then he asked me which "side" I was on. He didn't know what an Agorist is so I got dismissed pretty quickly.
    Tucker Carlson had a piece about the Tennessee Valley Authority tonight.

    Did he criticize this program as the relic of Commissar Roosevelt's socialism that it is?

    No no, his complaint was that the TVA was hiring foreigners in lieu of Americans.

    ...concluding with a nostalgic lament about how far the Dems have fallen (from the glorious heights of the 1930s, evidently).

    Then, in a separate segment on GOP news, someone's talk of "fiscal disaster," or something to that effect, caught my ear.

    Can it be? A fiscally conservative Republican in 2020, I hoped.

    No, it turns out they were deeply concerned about the fiscal irresponsibility that would appear in a Biden presidency.

    For now, everything's super.

    TL;DR - there is absolutely nothing of any redeeming value in this party, nothing for a libertarian at all
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 08-04-2020 at 07:44 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I was always under the assumption CONgress wrote spending bills? Best a president can do is veto, but that can be overwritten.
    The President bears responsibility for every bill that he doesn't veto.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Tucker Carlson had a piece about the Tennessee Valley Authority tonight.

    Did he criticize this program as the relic of Commissar Roosevelt's socialism that it is?

    No no, his complaint was that the TVA was hiring foreigners in lieu of Americans.

    ...concluding with a nostalgic lament about how far the Dems have fallen (from the glorious heights of the 1930s, evidently).
    "The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent [those] mistakes from being corrected."
    -- G.K. Chesterton (1924)


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    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    "The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent [those] mistakes from being corrected."
    -- G.K. Chesterton (1924)
    And business is good
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  16. #14
    There is someone in DC who sees the glaring hypocrisy of current GOP (or rather GOP-Progressive Socialist wing):


    Aug 5, 2020

    Rand Paul: Republicans should apologize to Obama for complaining about spending

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) tore into his fellow Republicans on Fox News Wednesday for considering a coronavirus relief package that could cost more than $1 trillion, calling on them to apologize to President Obama "for complaining that he was spending and borrowing too much" during his time in office.

    Why it matters: Paul's comments, while tongue-in-cheek, underscore the divisions within the Senate Republican conference, where as many as 20 GOP senators are likely to vote against any coronavirus relief bill — even if a deal is reached between Democrats and Trump administration.

    The state of play: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Tuesday that she's willing to settle for a price tag of $3.4 trillion, which is the cost of the relief package that House Democrats passed in May. White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said Wednesday that he's "extremely doubtful" the two sides will reach a deal if negotiations continue past Friday.

    What they're saying: "Republicans and Democrats compromise every day of the year to spend money we don't have. We were already running a trillion dollars short just with our normal budgetary expenses for the year. We added $3 trillion, now they're talking about another $1-$2 trillion. We're going to borrow another $5 trillion in five months," Paul told Fox News.

    "They might lose this election because they are acting like Democrats now. I am very upset with my colleagues. They went 8 years. They should apologize now to President Obama for complaining he was spending and borrowing too much. He was a piker compared to their borrowing and what they're doing now."

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    There is someone in DC who sees the glaring hypocrisy of current GOP (or rather GOP-Progressive Socialist wing):


    Aug 5, 2020

    Rand Paul: Republicans should apologize to Obama for complaining about spending

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) tore into his fellow Republicans on Fox News Wednesday for considering a coronavirus relief package that could cost more than $1 trillion, calling on them to apologize to President Obama "for complaining that he was spending and borrowing too much" during his time in office.

    Why it matters: Paul's comments, while tongue-in-cheek, underscore the divisions within the Senate Republican conference, where as many as 20 GOP senators are likely to vote against any coronavirus relief bill — even if a deal is reached between Democrats and Trump administration.

    The state of play: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Tuesday that she's willing to settle for a price tag of $3.4 trillion, which is the cost of the relief package that House Democrats passed in May. White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said Wednesday that he's "extremely doubtful" the two sides will reach a deal if negotiations continue past Friday.

    What they're saying: "Republicans and Democrats compromise every day of the year to spend money we don't have. We were already running a trillion dollars short just with our normal budgetary expenses for the year. We added $3 trillion, now they're talking about another $1-$2 trillion. We're going to borrow another $5 trillion in five months," Paul told Fox News.

    "They might lose this election because they are acting like Democrats now. I am very upset with my colleagues. They went 8 years. They should apologize now to President Obama for complaining he was spending and borrowing too much. He was a piker compared to their borrowing and what they're doing now."
    Wait, he said something critical of Trump, about massive spending, massively larger government, etc?

    Well, this Rand character must be a socialist, because we all know that the GOP hates socialism, and anyone who opposes the GOP is a socialist..
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    "The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent [those] mistakes from being corrected."
    -- G.K. Chesterton (1924)
    That does help explain the situation.



    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post

    Originally Posted by Anti Federalist

    Trump is recommending. Biden's Bolshies WILL mandate. There is no question about that...the only question is what else will mandated, vaccines, blood draws, tracker chips, god only knows what.

    $6 trillion of "stimulus"...LOL...you're worried about that? That's a drop in the bucket...there's $30 trillion on the table, another $60 trillion in next month's mail...that's absurd, black hole sun level debt...it will never get paid.

    If you are foolish enough to be holding US government debt, you will be paid in one these three ways:

    ...

    We'll bomb you debt holders into atoms and kiss our ass.

    ....
    He seems to think that just because I'm now LOL-ing at the Ludicrous Speed of debt accumulation now being undertaken, that I don't care.

    It wasn't a big deal to me under OBombYa and it isn't now.

    We all know how it is going to end.
    LOL
    I wasn't sure if you were serious, just releasing some steam or you have never been one of the small gummit/spending within means school of thought that almost all libertarians are known to be. But seems like it's the latter. Deficits/debt spending comments were directed at so called GOP "conservatives" or shall we say CINOs/RINOs who stand with current GOP progressive socialist wing and held raging protests against debt spending during Obama years.

    You have oft written critical comemnts about police state and dimisnishing liberties and assumed you were aware that those are part and parcel of big gummit.
    Curious, your views on debt spending by government also same as your views on debt spending/repayment strategies for private busineesses/individuals or those govern with different set of rules/morality?

    If you are foolish enough to be holding US government debt, you will be paid in one these three ways:
    ...
    We'll bomb you debt holders into atoms and kiss our ass.
    To me, on most issues difference beween Dems and current GOP-PS wing is marginal at best. On debt spending, this GOP wing takes teh cake ofcourse. If you don't care, more power to you. But that doesn't excuse others (like many that form so called base of current king of debt) for being called out for glaring hypocrisy.




    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Wait, he said something critical of Trump, about massive spending, massively larger government, etc?

    Well, this Rand character must be a socialist, because we all know that the GOP hates socialism, and anyone who opposes the GOP is a socialist..
    That might be too tough on few who hold such TDS pov



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