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Thread: libertarian Conservative Ammon Bundy Defends BLack Lives Matter, Defunds the Police.

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Then you and your neighbours should band together to hire a private security firm in a free market of competing companies. No competing business will allow the nonsense and abuse we see with the police monopolies. If the firm you hire fails to protect your private property then you hire another or hold them liable for ignoring your contract. A company is not going allow abusive police and risk their business to lawsuits. All our current problems solved with this solution.

    Some others like to have a choice and not hire a firm to protect their property and their life. They would be free to defend themselves.

    This is what a free society is like but it seems many here are continually moving further and further away from free market solutions in favour of keeping statist monopolies with horrendous records.
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Didn't Somalia try something like this? And what they ended up with was warlords.
    That's not at all what happened. A brutal dictator tried to "unify" Somalia through brutality. He was supported by the U.S.S.R. and later by the U.S.A. Eventually rebel groups, organized along ethnic clans, drove him from power.



    There is a functioning indepdendent nation inside Somalia known as Somaliland which was born from this conflict. They are far from perfect with their own levels of brutality. But they are not warlord ruled.



    But again, the key point is that Somalia didn't go into chaos because people were seeking self-rule. People sought self rule from the chaos that came from a brutal central government seeking to enforce its will.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 08-05-2020 at 05:56 AM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I think his point was the opposite of correct and the claims being made were wrong.
    There is no evidence that Ammon Bundy supports BLM the organization. The point went over your head.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    He was right about the Oregon stand-off too, that family was being harassed by the feds, it was just as egregious as the Bundy Ranch scenario and plenty of people who live out there were thankful that they did it. The media made it look like people didn't want them there, but they were misinformed as to what was going on with the family that lived there.
    The Hammond family that they were trying to "help" did not even ask for nor want their help. Nevada was defensive. Oregon was aggressive. It's all about picking your battles and honestly it was a public-relations blunder because Nevada could have sprung a host of legal challenges to the the power of the Feds to hold so much land out West, a good number of ranchers supported them, but they ruined any chance of that happening with their antics. I guess it comes down to perspective but I think they went too far, and that's how I felt when it happened.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 08-05-2020 at 05:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Exactly the same thing applies to Jo Jorgensen - but when she does it, she's denounced as being some kind of crypto-commie ...

    (Free hint: She's not a commie. She's pandering - just like Trump. It's disgusting and contemptible, but for electoral politics, it's par for course ...)
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Brother, you're not getting it. Such nuance is only recognized when their Cheeto Messiah is the victim of these kinds of unwarranted accusations. In any other case the ability to perceive such nuance immediately evaporates. Such is the religion of Trumpism.
    ^This! Jo Jorgenson has ma vote this go round.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I know anyone who supports abolishing police at this time and open borders is a useful idiot.
    Defunding the police is NOT the same thing as abolishing the police. I guess that is the goal but he has not yet asked for the police to be abolished.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    There is no evidence that Ammon Bundy supports BLM the organization. The point went over your head.
    Maybe the BLM = Bureau of Land Management?

    <s>
    Proverbs 29:18
    "Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he."

    Hosea 4:6
    "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  9. #67
    @CCTelander

    FIFY
    LOL

    Last edited by Ender; 08-05-2020 at 12:23 PM.
    There is no spoon.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Police are bureaucrats with weapons. All that is needed is an Sheriff and an armed citizenry deputized to maintain order.
    I'm not against moving towards that, Phill. But, I am not for just getting rid of the police force w/out any planning.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  11. #69
    His video is very true. He says very plainly that the police state is the much larger threat to people's lives than Black Lives Matter is and is being used to get conservatives to support expansion of the police state. I'm sure he'd know, seeing how the other BLM showed up to kick him off his land and steal his cattle at gunpoint, not the currently popular BLM. He's 100% spot on and understands the military tactics being used to get conservatives to actually embrace totalitarianism. It's the same military tactic they used to get conservatives to embrace life-long NYC Democrat Trump. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." NO, IT ISN'T. People don't seem to understand that there is a war being waged against Americans (by Britain) and it has been waged for a long time. Military tactics and psyops are being used just like any other war plan. (See: Gold fringed military war flag in courts, behind Trump, etc)


    -------------
    I'd accuse Swordy of having Libertarian Derangement Syndrome, aka LDS, but, well,....it's tough to accuse a Mormon of having LDS and not have the intent utterly lost lol

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What we have is a group of socialistic culture warriors draping themselves in the mantle of ant-socialism.

    ...some cynically, some because they don't know what socialism means.

    In any event, I can't imagine how the con could become any more obvious, in light of recent policies by the "anti-socialists."

    ...and yet here we are.

    In a thread about a year ago, some of the RPF "anti-socialist" posters let slip that they're just role-playing as libertarians/conservatives but are not. The rabid "anti-socialists" posting in support of, or at last indifference to, the obvious socialist policies of the current administration, are actually socialists/communists themselves. They are just using Alinsky tactics to socially engineer acceptance of the further socialization of the country under the current administration, using excuses such as engineered boogeymen like BLM. Like I said, military psyop tactics. It's no coincidence that a certain someone's avatar is a british soldier and has a war weapon in its name.
    Last edited by devil21; 08-05-2020 at 01:14 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    The Hammond family that they were trying to "help" did not even ask for nor want their help.
    Uh, you seem to be very confused.. They were on trial at the time and may have tried to distance themselves from the actions of the Bundy's for their case, but you have to be out of your mind if you think they didn't support them, supporting them.. they may not have agreed with all of the tactics, and a lot of the opinions of the locals were formed by the media.

    There was some weird narrative that the Bundy group wasn't there for the Hammonds, they were just anti-government, which is completely ridiculous. That fueled some of the local anti-Bundy narrative.

    You sound like you listened to a lot of CNN back then instead of being here on the forums to see what was really going on.

    This is the most negative comment I could find:

    Land said he worried that the militia’s violent image could taint the Hammonds’ reputation and make it harder for them to get out of prison.

    “I’m afraid the judge or whoever hears the case, it’s going to put doubt in their mind that Steven and Dwight might do something against the government.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...steven-hammond




    In a 2016 interview with the Guardian at her home in Burns, as the takeover of the Malheur wildlife national refuge was escalating, Susie Hammond, Dwight’s wife and Steven’s mother, discussed the toll on her family.

    “We didn’t think it could happen,” she said. “We thought we lived in America where you have one trial and you have one sentencing. They just keep playing political, legal mind games with people and people’s lives.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...litia-standoff

    Lol, ya, sounds like she is really upset with the Bundy's...


    Whether they appreciate it or not, the Bundy stand-off brought a lot of attention to the case, helping lead to Trump's pardons and did not hurt the Hammonds:

    In posts on Facebook, Ammon and Lisa Bundy praised Trump’s pardons.


    “God has been so good to us, He has given us the advantage. May He continue to bless us as we strive to love and serve Him and our neighbors. Dwight and Steven Hammond are coming home!!!” Ammon Bundy wrote on Facebook.


    “Thank you Mr. President Trump. This here is another miracle and justice,” Ammon’s wife Lisa wrote.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-05-2020 at 01:27 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    In a thread about a year ago, some of the RPF "anti-socialist" posters let slip that they're just role-playing as libertarians/conservatives but are not. The rabid "anti-socialists" posting in support of, or at last indifference to, the obvious socialist policies of the current administration, are actually socialists/communists themselves. They are just using Alinsky tactics to socially engineer acceptance of the further socialization of the country under the current administration, using excuses such as engineered boogeymen like BLM. Like I said, military psyop tactics. It's no coincidence that a certain someone's avatar is a british soldier and has a war weapon in its name.
    I can't speak to the details of that, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

    I assume that most of the libertarians-become-Trumpites are just fools, but some may well have ulterior motives.

    ...besides maximizing dick pill revenues, that is.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    Defunding the police is NOT the same thing as abolishing the police. I guess that is the goal but he has not yet asked for the police to be abolished.
    It's exactly the same and BLM has specifically said so.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    His video is very true. He says very plainly that the police state is the much larger threat to people's lives than Black Lives Matter is and is being used to get conservatives to support expansion of the police state. I'm sure he'd know, seeing how the other BLM showed up to kick him off his land and steal his cattle at gunpoint, not the currently popular BLM. He's 100% spot on and understands the military tactics being used to get conservatives to actually embrace totalitarianism. It's the same military tactic they used to get conservatives to embrace life-long NYC Democrat Trump. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." NO, IT ISN'T. People don't seem to understand that there is a war being waged against Americans (by Britain) and it has been waged for a long time. Military tactics and psyops are being used just like any other war plan. (See: Gold fringed military war flag in courts, behind Trump, etc)


    -------------
    I'd accuse Swordy of having Libertarian Derangement Syndrome, aka LDS, but, well,....it's tough to accuse a Mormon of having LDS and not have the intent utterly lost lol



    In a thread about a year ago, some of the RPF "anti-socialist" posters let slip that they're just role-playing as libertarians/conservatives but are not. The rabid "anti-socialists" posting in support of, or at last indifference to, the obvious socialist policies of the current administration, are actually socialists/communists themselves. They are just using Alinsky tactics to socially engineer acceptance of the further socialization of the country under the current administration, using excuses such as engineered boogeymen like BLM. Like I said, military psyop tactics. It's no coincidence that a certain someone's avatar is a british soldier and has a war weapon in its name.
    Says the guy who named himself after the father of lies and who is lying about who my avatar is.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post


    LOL! + rep
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  18. #75
    This thread needs some Dale Brown:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...er-is-On-Point
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

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