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Thread: libertarian Conservative Ammon Bundy Defends BLack Lives Matter, Defunds the Police.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Exactly the same thing applies to Jo Jorgensen - but when she does it, she's denounced as being some kind of crypto-commie ...

    (Free hint: She's not a commie. She's pandering - just like Trump. It's disgusting and contemptible, but for electoral politics, it's par for course ...)
    No, she was far more specific, she demanded "anti-racism" and used the official BLM hashtag.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #32
    Hes not wrong about his reasons to defund police but what libertarian limited government supporters do not consider is that if they join forces with communists to defund police, they're opening a can of worms that can NOT be closed. The BLM/Marxist/ANTIFA left has every major institution, art, culture, media, science, medicine, big business doing their bidding. You really think when cops are defunded and you stand your ground in self-defense against these psychotic leftists, that you will win in court and be on your merry way? Your life will be decimated, you and everybody that stands with you will be shunned from society.

    66%+ of Americans want law and order and don't wish to defund police. USE IT don't FIGHT IT.

    Even though the principles are mainly correct, Libertarian purists are some of the the DUMBEST political groups out there. Don't push for something that nobody wants. Push for things that people WANT and agree with what you believe. This is the best time for libertarians to gain support with GUN RIGHTS since background checks and gun sales are through the roof.
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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Hes not wrong about his reasons to defund police but what libertarian limited government supporters do not consider is that if they join forces with communists to defund police, they're opening a can of worms that can NOT be closed. The BLM/Marxist/ANTIFA left has every major institution, art, culture, media, science, medicine, big business doing their bidding. You really think when cops are defunded and you stand your ground in self-defense against these psychotic leftists, that you will win in court and be on your merry way? Your life will be decimated, you and everybody that stands with you will be shunned from society.

    66%+ of Americans want law and order and don't wish to defund police. USE IT don't FIGHT IT.

    Even though the principles are mainly correct, Libertarian purists are some of the the DUMBEST political groups out there. Don't push for something that nobody wants. Push for things that people WANT and agree with what you believe. This is the best time for libertarians to gain support with GUN RIGHTS since background checks and gun sales are through the roof.
    Order of operations is important, you can't eliminate the police while we have millions of communist revolutionaries backed by money and power and almost no libertarians.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, she was far more specific, she demanded "anti-racism" and used the official BLM hashtag.
    Like I said - she was pandering. It was stupid, foolish, ill-advised, and deserving of harsh criticism.

    But it does not make her a "commie" or a Marxist of any kind, and I am unable to take seriously anyone who claims that it does.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Like I said - she was pandering. It was stupid, foolish, ill-advised, and deserving of harsh criticism.

    But it does not make her a "commie" or a Marxist of any kind, and I am unable to take seriously anyone who claims that it does.
    I am unable to take seriously any attempt to pretend that the LP is not a front for communists after they bragged about replacing the best governor in the country with a Demoncrat in Kentucky.
    They have been sliding further and further left and now they can't hide anymore.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I am unable to take seriously any attempt to pretend that the LP is not a front for communists after they [increased welfare spending by trillions of dollars and encouraged the central bank to nationalize financial markets]
    O, wait, that was the GOP...

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Order of operations is important, you can't eliminate the police while we have millions of communist revolutionaries backed by money and power and almost no libertarians.
    Maybe that is what needed. Let it happen, let them try and let the purge of the Communist revolutionaries begin instead of the continual slow slide into Communism. Once we win, since the right is better armed, no one will want to go back to authoritarian police monopolies or anything resembling what the Communists put in place. Perfect opening for free market solutions as I described above and self reliance.

    While we are at it the CEO's of monopolies which are really stepping stones for central Communist control should be next.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Maybe that is what needed. Let it happen, let them try and let the purge of the Communist revolutionaries begin instead of the continual slow slide into Communism. Once we win since the right is better armed no one will want to go back to authoritarian police monopolies or anything resembling what the Communists put in place. Perfect opening for free market solutions as I described above and self reliance.

    While we are at it the CEO's of monopolies which are really stepping stones for central Communist control should be next.
    That is a recipe for extinguishing liberty for 100 years or more.

    Thinking that we would end up with anything but the USSR is just delusional.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    O, wait, that was the GOP...

    Trump and the GOP's behavior get excuses


    For the LP, anything but perfection is inexcusable
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.

  12. #40
    Anybody who is upset about his statements or thinking he is going to join forces with BLM, consider that he is still voting for Trump and I doubt he is going to cooperate with BLM. He just doesn't like the pro-police contingent of the conservatives, when we all know how many unconstitutional laws they enforce.

    I don't think defunding the police in cities right now is a good idea and certainly not for the reasons cited by BLM. I think it is a great idea out in rural areas, and once the kinks get worked out it could be moved into suburban areas - maybe even cities some day.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Anybody who is upset about his statements or thinking he is going to join forces with BLM, consider that he is still voting for Trump and I doubt he is going to cooperate with BLM. He just doesn't like the pro-police contingent of the conservatives, when we all know how many unconstitutional laws they enforce.

    I don't think defunding the police in cities right now is a good idea and certainly not for the reasons cited by BLM. I think it is a great idea out in rural areas, and once the kinks get worked out it could be moved into suburban areas - maybe even cities some day.
    What does the BLM want by getting rid of cops in schools? ever since cops had being pushed into schools the gun shootings and gun accidents had drooped.
    What do they gain by pushing this demand?

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Trump and the GOP's behavior get excuses

    For the LP, anything but perfection is inexcusable
    What we have is a group of socialistic culture warriors draping themselves in the mantle of ant-socialism.

    ...some cynically, some because they don't know what socialism means.

    In any event, I can't imagine how the con could become any more obvious, in light of recent policies by the "anti-socialists."

    ...and yet here we are.

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What we have is a group of socialistic culture warriors draping themselves in the mantle of ant-socialism.

    ...some cynically, some because they don't know what socialism means.

    In any event, I can't imagine how the con could become any more obvious, in light of recent policies by the "anti-socialists."

    ...and yet here we are.

    Nothing wrong with libertarians promoting that police enforce legitimate laws.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I am unable to take seriously any attempt to pretend that the LP is not a front for communists after they bragged about replacing the best governor in the country with a Demoncrat in Kentucky.
    They have been sliding further and further left and now they can't hide anymore.
    *shrug* I couldn't care less about the LP, and haven't since 2000.

    The LP is just another political party. As such, it is not it's purpose to get the candidates of other parties (re)elected.

    If the voters in Kentucky are idiots, then that's their fault, not the LP's - and the LP masturbating itself over being spoilers doesn't make them crypto-commies.

    Words have meanings, and accusations of "communist" are quickly becoming as empty and meaningless as accusations of "racist" ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 08-03-2020 at 10:14 PM.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What we have is a group of socialistic culture warriors draping themselves in the mantle of ant-socialism.

    ...some cynically, some because they don't know what socialism means.

    In any event, I can't imagine how the con could become any more obvious, in light of recent policies by the "anti-socialists."

    ...and yet here we are.

    Seems more like they are fascist and calling themselves socialists or anti-fascists.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Seems more like they are fascist and calling themselves socialists or anti-fascists.
    I was speaking of the GOP, sounds like you might be speaking of the Dems, and that's apt.

    Both are socialistic culture warriors: one draped in anti-communism, the other in anti-fascism, both for the wrong reasons.

    NSDAP v. Bolsheviks, in other words, albeit mild versions (for now anyway)
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    *shrug* I couldn't care less about the LP, and haven't since 2000.

    The LP is just another political party. As such, it is not it's purpose to get members of other parties (re)elected.

    If the voters in Kentucky are idiots, then that's their fault, not the LP's - and the LP masturbating itself over being spoilers doesn't make them crypto-commies.

    Words have meanings, and accusations of "communist" are rapidly becoming as empty and meaningless as accusations of "racist" ...

    Swordy views the world through commie colored glasses and has a tendency to see commies everywhere, even where they obviously aren't. If not for his helicopter fetish he'd be harmless. As is, probably best to maintain social distancing, at least.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Swordy views the world through commie colored glasses and has a tendency to see commies everywhere, even where they obviously aren't. If not for his helicopter fetish he'd be harmless. As is, probably best to maintain social distancing, at least.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump supports black lives and peaceful protests, he does not support the organization BLM.
    That "Whoosh" you hear is @John-G's point going right over your head.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Seattle moves to disband police department, replace it with “gender-affirming, anti-racist” Department of Community Safety

    https://disrn.com/news/seattle-moves...mmunity-safety
    You act like that's the ONLY model for defunding the police.

    Watch this:



    That's from this thread:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...er-is-On-Point
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    That "Whoosh" you hear is @John-G's point going right over your head.
    I think his point was the opposite of correct and the claims being made were wrong.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He's a useful idiot.
    Obviously you know nothing about Ammon Bundy.
    There is no spoon.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You act like that's the ONLY model for defunding the police.

    Watch this:



    That's from this thread:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...er-is-On-Point
    I don't live in a fantasy land where the libertarian model for defunding police will be implemented. This is the only model that the liberals will implement. I called it months ago, while everybody else was going "herp derp libs are so st0pId this is going to backfire on them". Liberals are smart, they always have a plan. If they are pushing something you can bet it's going to go in their interest.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Obviously you know nothing about Ammon Bundy.

    FIFY
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    I don't live in a fantasy land where the libertarian model for defunding police will be implemented.
    The liberal dreamers reach for their dreams while the cause here is total surrender mode and acceptance of them moving their plan forward as demonstrated in your response.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    This is the only model that the liberals will implement. I called it months ago, while everybody else was going "herp derp libs are so st0pId this is going to backfire on them". Liberals are smart, they always have a plan. If they are pushing something you can bet it's going to go in their interest.
    The morons on the right have the loudest voice and believe that. Unfortunately the thinkers and doers are not being heard and/or have surrendered.

    The Conservative media and Fox News plays a large role in what I described. This must change and it is up to us here to make sure it does.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-04-2020 at 06:44 PM.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The liberal dreamers reach for their dreams while the cause here is total surrender mode and acceptance of them moving their plan forward as demonstrated in your response.



    The morons on the right have the loudest voice and believe that. Unfortunately the thinkers and doers are not being herd and/or have surrendered.

    The Conservative media and Fox News plays a large role in what I described. This must change and it is up to us here to make sure it does.
    Of course it must change. You don't change it by going along with the left as they dismantle the police forces to install their own personal social justice warrior forces. That's being a useful idiot.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Obviously you know nothing about Ammon Bundy.
    I know anyone who supports abolishing police at this time and open borders is a useful idiot.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Of course it must change. You don't change it by going along with the left as they dismantle the police forces to install their own personal social justice warrior forces. That's being a useful idiot.
    Exactly.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Then you and your neighbours should band together to hire a private security firm in a free market of competing companies. No competing business will allow the nonsense and abuse we see with the police monopolies. If the firm you hire fails to protect your private property then you hire another or hold them liable for ignoring your contract. A company is not going allow abusive police and risk their business to lawsuits. All our current problems solved with this solution.
    Didn't Somalia try something like this? And what they ended up with was warlords.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    I don't live in a fantasy land where the libertarian model for defunding police will be implemented. This is the only model that the liberals will implement. I called it months ago, while everybody else was going "herp derp libs are so st0pId this is going to backfire on them". Liberals are smart, they always have a plan. If they are pushing something you can bet it's going to go in their interest.


    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The liberal dreamers reach for their dreams while the cause here is total surrender mode and acceptance of them moving their plan forward as demonstrated in your response.



    The morons on the right have the loudest voice and believe that. Unfortunately the thinkers and doers are not being heard and/or have surrendered.

    The Conservative media and Fox News plays a large role in what I described. This must change and it is up to us here to make sure it does.
    +rep. You are literally attacking a conservative liberatrian (Ammon Bundy) for advocating the libertarian model of defunding the police by falsely painting him with a liberal brush.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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