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Thread: Libertarian Party Becomes Woke Follows Democrats "We Must Support BLM for Justice"

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    While I can appreciate her attempt to use a tactic of the Marxists and redefine a term like #BlackLivesMatter, but it represents a dogma at this point. A mandatory statement of faith.

    It’s like saying “Allahu Akbar”, and then explaining that it means that you support freedom of religion.
    +rep ROFLMAO

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    And this is the LP nominee?

    Yet more evidence that "the Movement" was mostly nothing more than a bunch of punks and leftarians who just wanted to burn $#@! down for the sake of burning $#@! down.

    No wonder everybody was freaking out about the Ron Paul newsletters, when frankly, I found nothing wrong with them.

    The LP is a $#@!ing joke...can't believe I wasted 15 years even remotely associated with assclowns like this.
    Amen, brother.



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  5. #33
    Well, that's it for me, time for a new party.

    I can't think of a more fitting song. "Brain Damage" - Pink Floyd

    "and when the band your in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon".


    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  6. #34
    Supporting Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Would +rep if I could.

    "Libertarian" Party, my ass ... ("Lickspittle" Party is more like it ...)

    Make Orwell Fiction Again.
    Covered.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Ok, sure. What exactly is your definition of communism?


    https://www.lp.org/platform/

    REAMBLE
    As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.

    We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

    Consequently, we defend each person’s right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

    In the following pages we set forth our basic principles and enumerate various policy stands derived from those principles.

    These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.
    STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES
    We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

    We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

    Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

    We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life — accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action — accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property — accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

    Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.


    Note: The Statement of Principles was approved at the Convention in Dallas in 1974.
    1.0 PERSONAL LIBERTY
    Individuals are inherently free to make choices for themselves and must accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. Our support of an individual’s right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices. No individual, group, or government may rightly initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Libertarians reject the notion that groups have inherent rights. We support the rights of the smallest minority, the individual.

    1.1 Self-Ownership

    Individuals own their bodies and have rights over them that other individuals, groups, and governments may not violate. Individuals have the freedom and responsibility to decide what they knowingly and voluntarily consume, and what risks they accept to their own health, finances, safety, or life.

    1.2 Expression and Communication

    We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation, or control of communications media and technology. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.

    1.3 Privacy

    Libertarians advocate individual privacy and government transparency. We are committed to ending government’s practice of spying on everyone. We support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, property, and communications. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records.

    1.4 Personal Relationships

    Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration, or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, promote, license, or restrict personal relationships, regardless of the number of participants. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Until such time as the government stops its illegitimate practice of marriage licensing, such licenses must be granted to all consenting adults who apply.

    1.5 Abortion

    Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

    1.6 Parental Rights

    Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided that the rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also protected.

    1.7 Crime and Justice

    Government force must be limited to the protection of the rights of individuals to life, liberty, and property, and governments must never be permitted to violate these rights. Laws should be limited in their application to violations of the rights of others through force or fraud, or to deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services. We support restitution to the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. The constitutional rights of the criminally accused, including due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must be preserved. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law. We oppose the prosecutorial practice of “over-charging” in criminal prosecutions so as to avoid jury trials by intimidating defendants into accepting plea bargains.

    1.8 Death Penalty

    We oppose the administration of the death penalty by the state.

    1.9 Self-Defense

    The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. We affirm the individual right recognized by the Second Amendment to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. Private property owners should be free to establish their own conditions regarding the presence of personal defense weapons on their own property. We oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, registering, or monitoring the ownership, manufacture, or transfer of firearms or ammunition.
    2.0 ECONOMIC LIBERTY
    Libertarians want all members of society to have abundant opportunities to achieve economic success. A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.

    2.1 Property and Contract

    As respect for property rights is fundamental to maintaining a free and prosperous society, it follows that the freedom to contract to obtain, retain, profit from, manage, or dispose of one’s property must also be upheld. Libertarians would free property owners from government restrictions on their rights to control and enjoy their property, as long as their choices do not harm or infringe on the rights of others. Eminent domain, civil asset forfeiture, governmental limits on profits, governmental production mandates, and governmental controls on prices of goods and services (including wages, rents, and interest) are abridgements of such fundamental rights. For voluntary dealings among private entities, parties should be free to choose with whom they trade and set whatever trade terms are mutually agreeable.

    2.2 Environment

    Competitive free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Governments are unaccountable for damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights and responsibilities regarding resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Where damages can be proven and quantified in a court of law, restitution to the injured parties must be required.

    2.3 Energy and Resources

    While energy is needed to fuel a modern society, government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy. We oppose all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.

    2.4 Government Finance and Spending

    All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. We support any initiative to reduce or abolish any tax, and oppose any increase on any tax for any reason. To the extent possible, we advocate that all public services be funded in a voluntary manner.

    2.5 Government Debt

    Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a “Balanced Budget Amendment” to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes.

    2.6 Government Employees

    We favor repealing any requirement that one must join or pay dues to a union as a condition of government employment. We advocate replacing defined-benefit pensions with defined-contribution plans, as are commonly offered in the private sector, so as not to impose debt on future generations without their consent.

    2.7 Money and Financial Markets

    We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository institutions of all types. Markets are not actually free unless fraud is vigorously combated. Those who enjoy the possibility of profits must not impose risks of losses upon others, such as through government guarantees or bailouts. We support ending federal student loan guarantees and special treatment of student loan debt in bankruptcy proceedings. Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. We support a halt to inflationary monetary policies and unconstitutional legal tender laws.

    2.8 Marketplace Freedom

    Libertarians support free markets. We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of entities based on voluntary association. We oppose all forms of government subsidies and bailouts to business, labor, or any other special interest. Government should not compete with private enterprise.

    2.9 Licensing

    Libertarians support the right of every person to earn an honest and peaceful living through the free and voluntary exchange of goods and services. Accordingly, we oppose occupational and other licensing laws that infringe on this right or treat it as a state-granted privilege. We encourage certifications by voluntary associations of professionals.

    2.10 Sex Work

    The Libertarian Party supports the decriminalization of prostitution. We assert the right of consenting adults to provide sexual services to clients for compensation, and the right of clients to purchase sexual services from consenting sex workers.

    2.11 Labor Markets

    Employment and compensation agreements between private employers and employees are outside the scope of government, and these contracts should not be encumbered by government-mandated benefits or social engineering. We support the right of private employers and employees to choose whether or not to bargain with each other through a labor union. Bargaining should be free of government interference, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.

    2.12 Education

    Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability, and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children’s education.

    2.13 Health Care

    We favor a free market health care system. We recognize the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want (if any), the level of health care they want, the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions. People should be free to purchase health insurance across state lines.

    2.14 Retirement and Income Security

    Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become even more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm.
    3.0 SECURING LIBERTY
    The protection of individual rights is the only proper purpose of government. Government is constitutionally limited so as to prevent the infringement of individual rights by the government itself. The principle of non-initiation of force should guide the relationships between governments.

    3.1 National Defense

    We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression. The United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world. We oppose any form of compulsory national service.

    3.2 Internal Security and Individual Rights

    The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter threats to domestic security. This requirement must not take priority over maintaining the civil liberties of our citizens. The Constitution and Bill of Rights shall not be suspended even during time of war. Intelligence agencies that legitimately seek to preserve the security of the nation must be subject to oversight and transparency. We oppose the government’s use of secret classifications to keep from the public information that it should have, especially that which shows that the government has violated the law. We oppose the use of torture and other cruel and unusual punishments, without exception.

    3.3 International Affairs

    American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world. Our foreign policy should emphasize defense against attack from abroad and enhance the likelihood of peace by avoiding foreign entanglements. We would end the current U.S. government policy of foreign intervention, including military and economic aid. We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or by political or revolutionary groups.

    3.4 Free Trade and Migration

    We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.

    3.5 Rights and Discrimination

    Libertarians embrace the concept that all people are born with certain inherent rights. We reject the idea that a natural right can ever impose an obligation upon others to fulfill that “right.” We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should neither deny nor abridge any individual’s human right based upon sex, wealth, ethnicity, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference, or sexual orientation. Members of private organizations retain their rights to set whatever standards of association they deem appropriate, and individuals are free to respond with ostracism, boycotts, and other free market solutions.

    3.6 Representative Government

    We support election systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be free to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives. We advocate initiative, referendum, recall and repeal when used as popular checks on government.

    3.7 Self-Determination

    Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty.
    4.0 OMISSIONS
    Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval.
    What they claim to support and what they work to achieve are two different things.

    They actively seek to put communist Demoncrats in power.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    The Constitution Party?

    Anyone on the ballot for them?
    There is also the America First Party, I don't know who will replace the LP but someone needs to.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    And this is the LP nominee?

    Yet more evidence that "the Movement" was mostly nothing more than a bunch of punks and leftarians who just wanted to burn $#@! down for the sake of burning $#@! down.

    No wonder everybody was freaking out about the Ron Paul newsletters, when frankly, I found nothing wrong with them.

    The LP is a $#@!ing joke...can't believe I wasted 15 years even remotely associated with assclowns like this.
    Wait, you thought voting would matter? lol
    I keep saying that no Beltway "party" ivory tower (Alexandria VA, my hometown) will change anything and the LP leadership/standard bearers are compromised. Jacob Hornberger had the nomination basically just stolen from him and handed to Jorgenson. Everything inside the Beltway gets co-opted eventually. No Beltway ivory tower is going to save people. Delusions.

    However, unlike resident statists like Swordy, the Libertarian Party should remain on ballots simply because it has the word LIBERTY in it. Statists would love nothing more than see any use of the words "liberty", "freedom", "sovereignty", etc eradicated from the english language.
    Last edited by devil21; 07-11-2020 at 09:14 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  10. #38
    Oh wow, she needs to go, we need a real libertarian in there like Bill Weld.

  11. #39
    She needs to say & explain true Libertarians are the opposite of Marxist’s.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0fx1BYwCwCI

  12. #40
    The LP isn't anything more but a vehicle for cultural leftists who haven't yet taken the leap into full on communism.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    the Libertarian Party should remain on ballots simply because it has the word LIBERTY in it. Statists would love nothing more than see any use of the words "liberty", "freedom", "sovereignty", etc eradicated from the english language.
    Quite right...now explain to me why the presidential candidate of the LP has just enthusiastically thrown her support behind an organization that has as its stated goal, doing exactly what you just said statists want to do?
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Quite right...now explain to me why the presidential candidate of the LP has just enthusiastically thrown her support behind an organization that has as its stated goal, doing exactly what you just said statists want to do?
    Since you quoted the second paragraph of my post, I assume you were able to read the first paragraph.


    I think Jorgenson would have been fine by sticking with the platform plank language on bias and racism instead of ramping it up to the "anti-racist" rhetoric, which does indeed appear to kowtow way too far over to the left's rhetoric. She won't win many votes by turning off large swaths of disenfranchised Trump voters with this rhetoric while also trying to appeal to the far left, who will still vote for whoever the Dems end up with come November. The platform language is a good moderate (appeals to independent/unaffiliated while not alienating either party) position, so it makes little sense to take it so far to the left's viewpoint.
    Last edited by devil21; 07-12-2020 at 09:26 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Since you quoted the second paragraph of my post, I assume you were able to read the first paragraph.
    Of course...it explained itself, so therefore needed no further clarification.

    I think Jorgenson would have been fine by sticking with the platform plank language on bias and racism instead of ramping it up to the "anti-racist" rhetoric, which does indeed appear to kowtow way too far over to the left's rhetoric. She won't win many votes by turning off large swaths of disenfranchised Trump voters with this rhetoric while also trying to appeal to the far left, who will still vote for whoever the Dems end up with come November. The platform language is a good moderate (appeals to independent/unaffiliated while not alienating either party) position, so it makes little sense to take it so far to the left's viewpoint.
    OK, fair enough, your explanation is she made made a political error in a triangulation attempt.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  17. #44
    3.7 Self-Determination

    Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty.
    God damn right.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Quite right...now explain to me why the presidential candidate of the LP has just enthusiastically thrown her support behind an organization that has as its stated goal, doing exactly what you just said statists want to do?
    The LP supports redefining liberty as what the left wants and devil supports the LP.

    The LP should lose ballot access so that they can't redefine liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The LP supports redefining liberty as what the left wants and devil supports the LP.
    I support Liberty. I'm pretty well past the point of supporting "parties". Why would I support something that I just plainly stated that I believe is co-opted and subverted? LOL makes no sense.

    The LP should lose ballot access so that they can't redefine liberty.
    Of course you suggested some meaningless party name that is even easier to mold and shift around the meaning of. It's pretty difficult to change the actual definition of "liberty". The "America First" party, however....what a meaningless name. As if that sort of slogan hasn't been used in various forms a million times by both R and D, as they sold off the country to the highest bidders.

    -Hope and Change - Obama
    -Make America Great Again - Trump
    -A More Hopeful America -GWB
    -A Stronger America - Kerry
    -Let's Make America Great Again - Reagan
    -It's Time to Change America - Clinton
    -Country First - McCain
    -Believe in America - Romney

    Rs use their variations as an emotional trigger for people that get all choked up at pictures of soldiers and flags (both of which are tools of the British empire). Ds use it as an emotional trigger for those that get choked up over the inherent injustices that have evolved over the years under the banking system (also controlled by the British). If we want to be honest with ourselves, let's just drop D and R both and create the uniparty "America First", so it can win 100% of the vote every election.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  20. #47
    I don't know why this has to be reiterated so often, but it does. These activists do not care. You can tweet #BLM all you want. You can talk about police brutality until the cows come home. It doesn't matter. To the academics and activists they train, libertarianism is just another form of white supremacy. They might use you momentarily like they used Amash, but you don't actually gain any brownie points with these types if you're on the right. Once you stop being useful they'll have no problem destroying you, and your tweets about police brutality and "black mourning" will mean nothing.

    There have been attempts to create a progressive-libertarian alliance since Rothbard was around and it never works. Ron Paul's idea of libertarian Republicans and progressive Democrats coming together to dismantle the security state, the drug war, and interventionism was a naive fantasy. He doesn't understand what progressivism is and where it comes from. There will be no alliance. They hate you. They hate Ron Paul. And they always will.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I support Liberty. I'm pretty well past the point of supporting "parties". Why would I support something that I just plainly stated that I believe is co-opted and subverted? LOL makes no sense.



    Of course you suggested some meaningless party name that is even easier to mold and shift around the meaning of. It's pretty difficult to change the actual definition of "liberty". The "America First" party, however....what a meaningless name. As if that sort of slogan hasn't been used in various forms a million times by both R and D, as they sold off the country to the highest bidders.

    -Hope and Change - Obama
    -Make America Great Again - Trump
    -A More Hopeful America -GWB
    -A Stronger America - Kerry
    -Let's Make America Great Again - Reagan
    -It's Time to Change America - Clinton
    -Country First - McCain
    -Believe in America - Romney

    Rs use their variations as an emotional trigger for people that get all choked up at pictures of soldiers and flags (both of which are tools of the British empire). Ds use it as an emotional trigger for those that get choked up over the inherent injustices that have evolved over the years under the banking system (also controlled by the British). If we want to be honest with ourselves, let's just drop D and R both and create the uniparty "America First", so it can win 100% of the vote every election.
    The AFP already exists and has a platform, look it up.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    The Constitution Party?

    Anyone on the ballot for them?
    I don't like the idea of a party that derives it's platform from a document. What if there's some crappy anti liberty amendments added to the constitution? Is the constitution party required to support it?

    From what I've seen the constitution party does it bass ackwards. They start with their desired conclusion and then reverse engineer their "logic" to make it fit.

    For example I remember reading a couple articles from them that tried to explain why it was illegal for a business to discriminate against race but it was legal to discriminate against religion. That was the gay cake saga. The constitution party and other conservatives had this lame explanation that it violated the baker's first amendment rights. So that somehow made it ok to discriminate against one thing but not another? WTF? This should be a no brainer for anyone who believes in individual liberty. If you own a business you have the right to associate with whoever you want, it's your property. It's a simple property right issue, not some complex first amendment one.

    Also the constitution party goes thru similar bogus "reasoning" and they conclude that the government has the right to make all the victimless crimes illegal. Like I said, if you really believe in individual rights these topics are a piece of cake, pun intended. You shouldn't even work up a sweat trying to figure out whether discrimination laws and non-crimes like drugs and gambling should be legal. Yet not only do members of the constitution party have to work up a sweat they get the wrong answer!

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't like the idea of a party that derives it's platform from a document. What if there's some crappy anti liberty amendments added to the constitution? Is the constitution party required to support it?

    From what I've seen the constitution party does it bass ackwards. They start with their desired conclusion and then reverse engineer their "logic" to make it fit.

    For example I remember reading a couple articles from them that tried to explain why it was illegal for a business to discriminate against race but it was legal to discriminate against religion. That was the gay cake saga. The constitution party and other conservatives had this lame explanation that it violated the baker's first amendment rights. So that somehow made it ok to discriminate against one thing but not another? WTF? This should be a no brainer for anyone who believes in individual liberty. If you own a business you have the right to associate with whoever you want, it's your property. It's a simple property right issue, not some complex first amendment one.

    Also the constitution party goes thru similar bogus "reasoning" and they conclude that the government has the right to make all the victimless crimes illegal. Like I said, if you really believe in individual rights these topics are a piece of cake, pun intended. You shouldn't even work up a sweat trying to figure out whether discrimination laws and non-crimes like drugs and gambling should be legal. Yet not only do members of the constitution party have to work up a sweat they get the wrong answer!
    They are better than the GOP or the current LP though, and so is the America First Party.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
    The LP isn't anything more but a vehicle for cultural leftists who haven't yet taken the leap into full on communism.
    Yup. Not sure if they were sabotaged from inception or sometime after RP ran in 1988, but it's clear as day now what has happened to them. They are no better than Repubs or Dems. A minimal amount of research would help anyone see that BLM is a front for the push of communism, yet this candidate has apparently not done any homework.

    It's fine and this is a good thing. The faux party is being exposed for what it actually is or always was, whatever the case may be. Moving onward.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    I don't know why this has to be reiterated so often, but it does. These activists do not care. You can tweet #BLM all you want. You can talk about police brutality until the cows come home.

    It doesn't matter. To the academics and activists they train, libertarianism is just another form of white supremacy.

    They might use you momentarily like they used Amash, but you don't actually gain any brownie points with these types if you're on the right. Once you stop being useful they'll have no problem destroying you, and your tweets about police brutality and "black mourning" will mean nothing.

    There have been attempts to create a progressive-libertarian alliance since Rothbard was around and it never works. Ron Paul's idea of libertarian Republicans and progressive Democrats coming together to dismantle the security state, the drug war, and interventionism was a naive fantasy. He doesn't understand what progressivism is and where it comes from.

    There will be no alliance. They hate you. They hate Ron Paul. And they always will.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  27. #53
    Police brutality is a symptom of unlimited government that is required by the war on drugs.

    Re-segregation, the erecting of confederate statues etc, was all done by Democrat Progressives.

    It should be easy to get up and say that Black Lives only matter to libertarians and demonstrably not to communists. Marx had not time for blacks, women, *****s, or the disabled. Only German protestant factory workers.

    Black Lives Matter could be easily co-opted by libertarians, but for some $#@!ing reason nobody wants to make the government smaller for the sake of Black people. Y'all would rather have a big government than let black people walk around free?

    People who want to protest red-light cameras and drivers licenses, but can't possibly admit that the government is coming down harder on blacks than on whites?

    The only way for Black Lives to Matter is to limit the size of government. How hard is that to say?

    Its not enough to be passively non-statist, one must be actively anti-statist. << To radical for libertarians.

    Saying we should enforce the NAP is a normative "tell other people what to do" statement. Grow up.

    The USA needs leadership right now, and the wokists don't have any coherent plan for what comes next. They only know how to discredit existing structures. If there was ever a time for a libertarian revolution its right now. Dismantling huge chunks of the states, even public schools, is possible right now. But not if y'all are afraid to use black liberation to do it.

    We had a moment like this in New Zealand in 1984. We went from far left country to the most economically liberal in the world practically overnight, with no violence. Just the realization that things weren't working. It was the god damn left wing party that did it too. Stopped short of privatizing the schools, but they were on the block for a hot minute.

    Get on the hammer for upholding contracts, all those treaties with the Indian Nations who long since should have had their own states.

    The wokists can't stop libertarian logic when its in service of the marginalised.
    Last edited by idiom; 07-13-2020 at 06:42 PM.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Police brutality is a symptom of unlimited government that is required by the war on drugs.

    Black Lives Matter could be easily co-opted by libertarians, but for some $#@!ing reason nobody wants to make the government smaller for the sake of Black people. Y'all would rather have a big government than let black people walk around free?
    Wow, rather sanctimonious for somebody from a country with less than 2 percent black Africans as part of the population.

    Come and live here for couple of decades and get yourself a gutful of Negro Fatigue.

    Blacks, far beyond their representative portion of the population, are the wealthiest and most influential in endeavors from arts and entertainment to sports to politics to academia...yet they are still held down by whitey's invisible chains?

    This effort at reigning in cops started here, started with "liberty folks" (I refuse to even use the word "libertarian" anymore) and not flabby Marxist white chicks.

    ETA - I'll address the added comments you made later.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 07-13-2020 at 06:49 PM.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  29. #55
    America is such a racist country. That's why we had a black president for 8 years. That's why the majority of athletes in the NBA and NFL are black.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Police brutality is a symptom of unlimited government that is required by the war on drugs.

    Re-segregation, the erecting of confederate statues etc, was all done by Democrat Progressives.

    It should be easy to get up and say that Black Lives only matter to libertarians and demonstrably not to communists. Marx had not time for blacks, women, *****s, or the disabled. Only German protestant factory workers.

    Black Lives Matter could be easily co-opted by libertarians, but for some $#@!ing reason nobody wants to make the government smaller for the sake of Black people. Y'all would rather have a big government than let black people walk around free?


    People who want to protest red-light cameras and drivers licenses, but can't possibly admit that the government is coming down harder on blacks than on whites?

    The only way for Black Lives to Matter is to limit the size of government. How hard is that to say?

    Its not enough to be passively non-statist, one must be actively anti-statist. << To radical for libertarians.

    Saying we should enforce the NAP is a normative "tell other people what to do" statement. Grow up.

    The USA needs leadership right now, and the wokists don't have any coherent plan for what comes next. They only know how to discredit existing structures. If there was ever a time for a libertarian revolution its right now. Dismantling huge chunks of the states, even public schools, is possible right now. But not if y'all are afraid to use black liberation to do it.

    We had a moment like this in New Zealand in 1984. We went from far left country to the most economically liberal in the world practically overnight, with no violence. Just the realization that things weren't working. It was the god damn left wing party that did it too. Stopped short of privatizing the schools, but they were on the block for a hot minute.

    Get on the hammer for upholding contracts, all those treaties with the Indian Nations who long since should have had their own states.

    The wokists can't stop libertarian logic when its in service of the marginalised.
    You have no conception of what BLM is, what they want, or who runs it if you think this. This is the most uninformed thing I've heard about BLM on this entire forum.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    And this is the LP nominee?

    Yet more evidence that "the Movement" was mostly nothing more than a bunch of punks and leftarians who just wanted to burn $#@! down for the sake of burning $#@! down.
    This is what you get when you have a bunch of government school-indoctrinated, basement-dwelling, video game influenced ninnies who have been allowed to be Peter Pan libertines. What they do in the fantasy world all day becomes reality when someone whispers in their ear that nobody will stop them if they do it.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    You have no conception of what BLM is, what they want, or who runs it if you think this. This is the most uninformed thing I've heard about BLM on this entire forum.
    Well, there you have it in a nutshell.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    You have no conception of what BLM is, what they want, or who runs it if you think this. This is the most uninformed thing I've heard about BLM on this entire forum.
    Maybe *you* don’t. Go to their web site, or check out some articles by non-leftist organizations.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Maybe *you* don’t. Go to their web site, or check out some articles by non-leftist organizations.
    There is no non-leftist BLM. They're an intersectional leftist movement.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

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