Modern Monetary Theory debate

[CORRY20]

I keep hearing all this arguments from economist that keep pushing MMT Private debt is not the same as public debt. Unlike the fed gov, individuals, states, and businesses can go bankrupt bc they are not currency issuers. They are currency users. Important distinction.

Economist keep printing articles like this https://www.forbes.com/sites/frances.../#7af6b690314f

It's like don't even care about the debt anymore

[devil21]

I keep hearing all this arguments from economist that keep pushing MMT Private debt is not the same as public debt. Unlike the fed gov, individuals, states, and businesses can go bankrupt bc they are not currency issuers. They are currency users. Important distinction.

Economist keep printing articles like this https://www.forbes.com/sites/frances.../#7af6b690314f

It's like don't even care about the debt anymore

They never did care but the debt itself isn't real, except to foreign holders that expect to be compensated for their holdings as they liquidate it during the ongoing petrodollar unwind. What is real is all of the (taxable) economic activity that the imaginary debt generated, which does have value after it has been earned by one's labor.

MMT can be summed up as "BRRRRRRRRRRRR". It's all imaginary but we all play the game to various extents to capture a slice of the illusion.

[DamianTV]

Modern Money is NOT Honest Money.

Modern Money allows people that have the power to print more money to steal the VALUE of your money without affecting the Quantity.

So who has the power to "print money"? Banks and Governments.

What happens is this. You have a dollar in your pocket. Your one dollar can buy one apple. Then they print money. Suddenly the price of your one apple is now 10 dollars, not one. They did not touch the money in your pocket, but were able to steal its value by printing new money. They call it Inflation, and turn back around and lie to us and tell us INFLATION IS GOOD. Might as well tell us also that being sick is healthy, and being stupid is smart. Bizarro world.

Ron Paul said that Inflation is a Hidden Tax on the poor. Why? When poor people print money, the people that have the power to legally print money call it counterfeiting, even though that is exactly what the people in power are doing, and it has the exact same effect.

[merkelstan]

MMT is just the latest smoke-and-mirrors attempt to hide and excuse socialism.

There is no 'pool of underutilized resources' that can be more productively engaged if we accept more government intervention and socialist spending.

[merkelstan]

Another one i came up with:

[r3volution 3.0]

There's no essential difference between MMT and what the state's been doing for the last many decades. If you understand why the factors of production should be allocated according to market prices, then you already understand why MMT is a bad idea. The details of that theory are just new shine on an old turd.

[Snowball]

Congress has the power and authority which they lawfully outsourced to the Fed, and the Fed is - at least publicly, run by Presidential appointment and Senatorial confirmations. Therefore, no taxation without representation doesn't apply to monetary easement.

One of these days, conservatives will realize the truth - that the Constitution is not a conservative document, but a very liberal one, and that free markets are not a conservative principle, but a liberal one - which has caused mostly all problems, corruption and debasement of our society.

[r3volution 3.0]

Congress has the power and authority which they lawfully outsourced to the Fed, and the Fed is - at least publicly, run by Presidential appointment and Senatorial confirmations. Therefore, no taxation without representation doesn't apply to monetary easement.

One of these days, conservatives will realize the truth - that the Constitution is not a conservative document, but a very liberal one, and that free markets are not a conservative principle, but a liberal one - which has caused mostly all problems, corruption and debasement of our society.

Huh...?

How have free markets caused our problems (especially considering that we've had nothing resembling a free market for eons)?

[Snowball]

Huh...?

How have free markets caused our problems (especially considering that we've had nothing resembling a free market for eons)?

You just answered your own question. The free markets that existed in the 1700s and 1800s gave birth to the current oligarchy.
As capital was consolidated, markets became less free. Don't forget, free markets do not prohibit crony capitalism.

[r3volution 3.0]

You just answered your own question. The free markets that existed in the 1700s and 1800s gave birth to the current oligarchy.
As capital was consolidated, markets became less free. Don't forget, free markets do not prohibit crony capitalism.

There is always some set of people who benefit from state intervention in the market.

The relatively free markets of the past didn't create that problem.

[Snowball]

There is always some set of people who benefit from state intervention in the market.

The relatively free markets of the past didn't create that problem.

That is not the case at all.

[Krugminator2]

There is always some set of people who benefit from state intervention in the market.

The relatively free markets of the past didn't create that problem.

Don't feed the troll- or in his case, the prole.

He's right - and capitalism is not traditional nor conservative in any way.

Capitalism is an economic system meant to promote and consolidate the power of the CAPITALIST class -

who have been increasing their power with dramatic results ever since the French Revolution.

[Sammy]

Must Watch!
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[Krugminator2]

I'm not sure what your point is.

See. He's very smart. He's about to read something by some no name mediocrity about how progress is corrupting. He's saying he isn't some simpleton troglodyte like you who believes in vulgar capitalism and all the tyranny the capitalists inflict by siphoning off surplus value from wage slaves.

Smart people believe the answer to all ills is printing money and when inflation sets in using price controls. Literally the prescription galaxy brains like Hugo Chavez, Salvador Allende and in Zimbabwe.

I don't want taxes, I gave example of how they can be replaced with issuing money to pay for expenditures.
De-monetization is not a pipe dream anymore than the pipe dreams expressed here are, such as people walking around
with gold coins. Increasing the money supply is not a tax. To the extent sellers would seek to raise prices, that can be
mitigated with legislation. I am a proponent of price-setting, not free market.

[Snowball]

See. He's very smart. He's about to read something by some no name mediocrity about how progress is corrupting. He's saying he isn't some simpleton troglodyte like you who believes in vulgar capitalism and all the tyranny the capitalists inflict by siphoning off surplus value from wage slaves.

lol, has never heard of Dorothy Sayers. "no name mediocrity"

[Krugminator2]

lol, has never heard of Dorothy Sayers. "no name mediocrity"

Sorry. Never heard of her. Does she babble about usury and the evils of free enterprise like you?

[Snowball]

Sorry. Never heard of her. Does she babble about usury and the evils of free enterprise like you?

Hold on a second. I have never disparaged free enterprise.

The false associations you've been taught to believe are that KAPITALISM is free enterprise (it is not), and that USURY is prosperity (it is not).

[Krugminator2]

Hold on a second. I have never disparaged free enterprise.

Well.. You did. You said markets shouldn't determine prices. Just read the bolded part of your quote. That is literally the most important and fundamental aspect of free enterprise. There is no free enterprise without prices being able to adjust to supply and demand.

I don't want taxes, I gave example of how they can be replaced with issuing money to pay for expenditures.
De-monetization is not a pipe dream anymore than the pipe dreams expressed here are, such as people walking around
with gold coins. Increasing the money supply is not a tax. To the extent sellers would seek to raise prices, that can be
mitigated with legislation. I am a proponent of price-setting, not free market.

The false associations you've been taught to believe are that KAPITALISM is free enterprise (it is not), and that USURY is prosperity (it is not).

Laissez faire capitalism like in the 1800s United States (which you disparaged in thread as creating oligarchs) and free enterprise are the same.

Usury doesn't exist in a capitalist system. Market rates of interest are a component of a free society.