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Thread: In Defense of Nationalism

  1. #1

    In Defense of Nationalism

    In Defense of Nationalism
    By Pawel Styrna - May 20, 2020

    Recent years have seen nationalism once again ascendant and increasingly victorious at the ballot box, both in the U.S. and throughout the world. ... What they also have in common is a fundamental opposition to unchecked mass migration, open borders, and globalist encroachments on national sovereignty. In response, globalist-inclined elites have raised the threatening specter of “Fascism” and “tribalism,” attacking the new wave of national patriotism – and nationalism in general – as nothing more than racism and demagogic xenophobia. In his fairly recent book, The Virtue of Nationalism (2018), Yoram Hazony, not only debunks the anti-nationalist fear-mongering, but explains how love for one’s nation can actually be a virtue.
    ...
    Following the Second World War, “nationalism” became a dirty word, largely due to the genocidal crimes of Nazi Germany. Thus, much of the Western political, intellectual, and cultural elite views it as a serious threat to a so-called “liberal rules-based global order” and a “reversion” to an age of “war-mongering and racism.” Many American defenders of U.S. national sovereignty and our country’s right to secure our borders and enforce our immigration policies have probably been called “Nazis” or “Fascists” at one time or another, and are therefore quite familiar with this.

    As Hazony points out, however, in the case of Hitler’s Third Reich, an extreme and chauvinistic version of nationalism was bound up with not only biological racism but also a drive to conquer Europe and the world. Thus, the author argues, German Nazi dreams of world domination had more in common with various historical iterations of “universal empire” – including the modern-day globalist drive towards a system of “global governance” without nations or borders – than with more traditional, mainstream forms of nationalism.

    Hazony objects to the tarring of all forms of nationalism with the broad brush of “Nazism” or “Fascism” as much as he rejects racist brands of nationalism. Rather, the kind of nationalism that he is defending is based on the right of peoples (i.e. nations) – bound together by a shared culture, language, history, and traditions (and often, but not always, also shared ethnic and religious affinities) – to chart their independent destinies.

    As The Virtue of Nationalism makes clear, the choice between nationalism and globalism is often not between “exclusionary tribalism” and a world of perfect peace, tolerance, and brotherhood, i.e. between the imperfect real world and utopia. Rather, the alternative is nationalism/national sovereignty versus some form of universal empire – with all the problems and threats that it entails.

    According to Hazony, a nationless and borderless world – or at least one in which borders and nation-states have been made irrelevant – under the auspices or overlordship of some kind of global government poses a significant danger to freedom. By contrast, an order of sovereign nations makes it much more difficult to impose anything, including tyranny, on the world. (Pro-illegal-alien radical activists who chant “f*** borders, f*** nations, f*** deportations” should pay close attention here!)

    The Israeli philosopher also tackles the assertion – so often voiced by leftists and other “anti-nationalists” – that nationalism is tantamount to hate or inevitably leads to it. The problem, Hazony argues, is that there is no evidence that universalist doctrines or movements are somehow free of hateful sentiments. In fact, there exists a “hatred that is found in imperialist movements, which is the hatred that a universal ideal bears against those nations or tribes that refuse to accept its claim to universality.” This is of course borne out by history, whether it is Soviet communists (motivated by an internationalist ideology) decades ago or Islamist radicals (driven by dreams of a global Caliphate) in more recent years.
    ...
    More: https://www.immigrationreform.com/20...ionreform-com/
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078WRX331/

    A leading conservative thinker argues that a nationalist order is the only realistic safeguard of liberty in the world today

    Nationalism is the issue of our age. From Donald Trump's "America First" politics to Brexit to the rise of the right in Europe, events have forced a crucial debate: Should we fight for international government? Or should the world's nations keep their independence and self-determination?

    In The Virtue of Nationalism, Yoram Hazony contends that a world of sovereign nations is the only option for those who care about personal and collective freedom. He recounts how, beginning in the sixteenth century, English, Dutch, and American Protestants revived the Old Testament's love of national independence, and shows how their vision eventually brought freedom to peoples from Poland to India, Israel to Ethiopia. It is this tradition we must restore, he argues, if we want to limit conflict and hate--and allow human difference and innovation to flourish.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    Nationalism has always been about creating a monoculture world, destroying regional identities, creating powerful centralized states, and imposing your will on the world. Nationalism did not exist until the French Revolution, and we can see the behavior the people who identified with Nationalism had during its heyday.

    If you think Nationalism is anti-war and against spreading national power, you aren’t a Nationalist.

    Nationalism destroyed states rights, local languages, religions, and ancient traditional orders everywhere in the world. They standardized everything; trade, language, patents, defense, legal authority. Now they complain when internationalists want to take their centralized governments standardized systems and use them to integrate internationally. Nationalists get what they deserve watching their precious creations die after less than a century in most cases.

    People who just wanted to protect their local culture, including from the rest of their country, I feel bad for however.

  5. #4
    well

    i been
    paying for
    one for all these
    years. if i DONT have
    a nation, I WANT MY MONEY
    BACK

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlerzzz View Post
    Nationalism has always been about creating a monoculture world, destroying regional identities, creating powerful centralized states, and imposing your will on the world. Nationalism did not exist until the French Revolution, and we can see the behavior the people who identified with Nationalism had during its heyday.

    If you think Nationalism is anti-war and against spreading national power, you aren’t a Nationalist.

    Nationalism destroyed states rights, local languages, religions, and ancient traditional orders everywhere in the world. They standardized everything; trade, language, patents, defense, legal authority. Now they complain when internationalists want to take their centralized governments standardized systems and use them to integrate internationally. Nationalists get what they deserve watching their precious creations die after less than a century in most cases.

    People who just wanted to protect their local culture, including from the rest of their country, I feel bad for however.
    So globalism, being nothing more than a bigger version of evil nationalism, is to be celebrated and endorsed?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    I prefer Confederations. But that train has left the station.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I prefer Confederations. But that train has left the station.
    Even Confederations are composed of nations.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Even Confederations are composed of nations.
    Yes, I agree. Though they are mostly called "Independent States." Recognized by a definitive border. But, yes, they hold a sovereignty enforced by the will of the people. Or should.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    So globalism, being nothing more than a bigger version of evil nationalism., is to be celebrated and endorsed?
    There. I FIFY.

    "Individualism", freedom/liberty, will not be uttered, tolerated, least of all be televised on TV. It is a DIRECT THREAT to any/all forms of government, and the corporations that take their overwhelming cuts from it.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    There. I FIFY.

    "Individualism", freedom/liberty, will not be uttered, tolerated, least of all be televised on TV. It is a DIRECT THREAT to any/all forms of government, and the corporations that take their overwhelming cuts from it.
    And what can an individual of modest means and no power do to stop global tyranny?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    And what can an individual of modest means and no power do to stop global tyranny?
    1. Live as an Agorist to the best of ones ability.

    2. Live in complete isolation.

    3. Pretend to believe that “working in the right direction” will lead to freedom in the system that was created to give one that false hope.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    1. Live as an Agorist to the best of ones ability.

    2. Live in complete isolation.

    3. Pretend to believe that “working in the right direction” will lead to freedom in the system that was created to give one that false hope.
    The individual is not able to preserve his rights against organized tyrants, collective action is required to preserve the rights of the individual as much as is possible.
    Nationalism is the best possible path for liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Double post.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The individual is not able to preserve his rights against organized tyrants, collective action is required to preserve the rights of the individual as much as is possible.
    Nationalism is the best possible path for liberty.

    I felt freer in 2002 than I did in 1995. And, I felt freer in 2010 than I did in 2005. And, also, I feel much much more freer today in 2020, than I did in 2019.

    Gee, Swordy, after all of this time, you finally convinced me! Yayyyyyyyy "nationalism"!


    I can't f&cking stand communists, even when they refer to themselves as "nationalists", because whether people are able to put 2 and 2 together, or not, they are one and the same. In fact, there is no lesser of evil, because they are both equally evil.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  17. #15
    Do We Need The State?
    By Doug Casey

    International Man

    May 21, 2020

    Rousseau was perhaps the first to popularize the fiction now taught in civics classes about how government was created. It holds that men sat down together and rationally thought out the concept of government as a solution to problems that confronted them. The government of the United States was, however, the first to be formed in any way remotely like Rousseau’s ideal. Even then, it had far from universal support from the three million colonials whom it claimed to represent. The U.S. government, after all, grew out of an illegal conspiracy to overthrow and replace the existing government.

    There’s no question that the result was, by an order of magnitude, the best blueprint for a government that had yet been conceived. Most of America’s Founding Fathers believed the main purpose of government was to protect its subjects from the initiation of violence from any source; government itself prominently included. That made the U.S. government almost unique in history. And it was that concept – not natural resources, the ethnic composition of American immigrants, or luck – that turned America into the paragon it became.

    The origin of government itself, however, was nothing like Rousseau’s fable or the origin of the United States Constitution. The most realistic scenario for the origin of government is a roving group of bandits deciding that life would be easier if they settled down in a particular locale, and simply taxing the residents for a fixed percentage (rather like “protection money”) instead of periodically sweeping through and carrying off all they could get away with. It’s no accident that the ruling classes everywhere have martial backgrounds. Royalty are really nothing more than successful marauders who have buried the origins of their wealth in romance.

    Romanticizing government, making it seem like Camelot, populated by brave knights and benevolent kings, painting it as noble and ennobling, helps people to accept its jurisdiction. But, like most things, government is shaped by its origins. Author Rick Maybury may have said it best in Whatever Happened to Justice?,

    “A castle was not so much a plush palace as the headquarters for a concentration camp. These camps, called feudal kingdoms, were established by conquering barbarians who’d enslaved the local people. When you see one, ask to see not just the stately halls and bedrooms, but the dungeons and torture chambers.

    “A castle was a hangout for silk-clad gangsters who were stealing from helpless workers. The king was the ‘lord’ who had control of the blackjack; he claimed a special ‘divine right’ to use force on the innocent.
    “Fantasies about handsome princes and beautiful princesses are dangerous; they whitewash the truth. They give children the impression political power is wonderful stuff.”

    Is The State Necessary?

    The violent and corrupt nature of government is widely acknowledged by almost everyone. That’s been true since time immemorial, as have political satire and grousing about politicians. Yet almost everyone turns a blind eye; most not only put up with it, but actively support the charade. That’s because, although many may believe government to be an evil, they believe it is a necessary evil (the larger question of whether anything that is evil is necessary, or whether anything that is necessary can be evil, is worth discussing, but this isn’t the forum).

    What (arguably) makes government necessary is the need for protection from other, even more dangerous, governments. I believe a case can be made that modern technology obviates this function.
    One of the most perversely misleading myths about government is that it promotes order within its own bailiwick, keeps groups from constantly warring with each other, and somehow creates togetherness and harmony. In fact, that’s the exact opposite of the truth. There’s no cosmic imperative for different people to rise up against one another…unless they’re organized into political groups. The Middle East, now the world’s most fertile breeding ground for hatred, provides an excellent example.

    Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together peaceably in Palestine, Lebanon, and North Africa for centuries until the situation became politicized after World War I. Until then, an individual’s background and beliefs were just personal attributes, not a casus belli. Government was at its most benign, an ineffectual nuisance that concerned itself mostly with extorting taxes. People were busy with that most harmless of activities: making money.

    But politics do not deal with people as individuals. It scoops them up into parties and nations. And some group inevitably winds up using the power of the state (however “innocently” or “justly” at first) to impose its values and wishes on others with predictably destructive results. What would otherwise be an interesting kaleidoscope of humanity then sorts itself out according to the lowest common denominator peculiar to the time and place.
    Sometimes that means along religious lines, as with the Muslims and Hindus in India or the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland; or ethnic lines, like the Kurds and Iraqis in the Middle East or Tamils and Sinhalese in Sri Lanka; sometimes it’s mostly racial, as whites and East Indians found throughout Africa in the 1970s or Asians in California in the 1870s. Sometimes it’s purely a matter of politics, as Argentines, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and other Latins discovered more recently. Sometimes it amounts to no more than personal beliefs, as the McCarthy era in the 1950s and the Salem trials in the 1690s proved.

    Throughout history government has served as a vehicle for the organization of hatred and oppression, benefitting no one except those who are ambitious and ruthless enough to gain control of it. That’s not to say government hasn’t, then and now, performed useful functions. But the useful things it does could and would be done far better by the market.

    Reprinted with permission from International Man.
    There is no spoon.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I felt freer in 2002 than I did in 1995. And, I felt freer in 2010 than I did in 2005. And, also, I feel much much more freer today in 2020, than I did in 2019.

    Gee, Swordy, after all of this time, you finally convinced me! Yayyyyyyyy "nationalism"!


    I can't f&cking stand communists, even when they refer to themselves as "nationalists", because whether people are able to put 2 and 2 together, or not, they are one and the same. In fact, there is no lesser of evil, because they are both equally evil.
    We have not been getting more nationalist, we have been getting less nationalist, Trump is only beginning to change that.

    Liberty and nationalism go together and die together.

    The individual is not able to preserve his rights against organized tyrants, collective action is required to preserve the rights of the individual as much as is possible.
    Nationalism is the best possible path for liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We have not been getting more nationalist, we have been getting less nationalist, Trump is only beginning to change that.

    Liberty and nationalism go together and die together.

    The individual is not able to preserve his rights against organized tyrants, collective action is required to preserve the rights of the individual as much as is possible.
    Nationalism is the best possible path for liberty.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We have not been getting more nationalist, we have been getting less nationalist, Trump is only beginning to change that.

    Liberty and nationalism go together and die together.

    The individual is not able to preserve his rights against organized tyrants, collective action is required to preserve the rights of the individual as much as is possible.
    Nationalism is the best possible path for liberty.
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post

    I will follow up with this:

    Trump, "republican", MAGA, signed that pathetic Omnibus, the largest in history that made Obama proud. Immigrants did not force his signature on that page.

    Trump, "republican", MAGA, urged and signed that pathetic "Emergency" Spending Bill. Immigrants, nor those over in Africa, forced his signature on that page.

    Trump, "republican", MAGA, signed that North American Union. Immigrants did not force his signature on that page. Which BTW, Mexicans themselves are furious over. I know, because I know Mexican business owners down in Mexico, and they wish this evil Statist Empire would just leave them alone.

    Trump, "republican", MAGA, brought on Bill Gates' top boot-lickers Anthony Fauci and Moncef Slaoui, and then commenced "Operation Warp Speed", with MASSIVE Federal Funding to Bill Gates' Moderna. Immigrants did not force his signature on that page.

    So, toot all you want about Trump and "nationalism". One thing for certain is, if the current "Republican" CIC who touts "nationalism" kept his grubby fingers off of that pen, we would not be worse off today than before he was "prez". And if people were not such "nationalists", they would have held accountable that "republican" NY Lib.

    But of course, immigrants, who don't have a pot to piss in and willing to work under the table so as not to "Fund your Fed", have more power than the corporatists/lobbyists who are in bed with Fed.gov and manufacture these crises.

    Statist.
    Last edited by PAF; 05-23-2020 at 10:10 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I will follow up with this:

    Trump, "republican", MAGA, signed that pathetic Omnibus, the largest in history that made Obama proud. Immigrants did not force his signature on that page.

    Trump, "republican", MAGA, urged and signed that pathetic "Emergency" Spending Bill. Immigrants, nor those over in Africa, forced his signature on that page.

    Trump, "republican", MAGA, signed that North American Union. Immigrants did not force his signature on that page. Which BTW, Mexicans themselves are furious over. I know, because I know Mexican business owners down in Mexico, and they wish this evil Statist Empire would just leave them alone.

    Trump, "republican", MAGA, brought on Bill Gates' top boot-lickers Anthony Fauci and Moncef Slaoui, and then commenced "Operation Warp Speed", with MASSIVE Federal Funding to Bill Gates' Moderna. Immigrants did not force his signature on that page.

    So, toot all you want about Trump and "nationalism". One thing for certain is, if the current "Republican" CIC who touts "nationalism" kept his grubby fingers off of that pen, we would not be worse off today than before he was "prez". And if people were not such "nationalists", they would have held accountable that "republican" NY Lib.

    But of course, immigrants, who don't have a pot to piss in and willing to work under the table so as not to "Fund your Fed", have more power than the corporatists/lobbyists who are in bed with Fed.gov and manufacture these crises.

    Statist.
    Actually Trump is in the political position he his in where he has to compromise and make deals because immigrants have given so much power to the communist Demoncrats and to the RINOs for several generations.

    And in all likelihood each of those things would have been imposed on him with veto overrides or done by Pence/Pelosi after he was impeached.

    Not to mention all the far worse things that Immigrants have enabled. (Obvious Cherry Picking is Obvious)




    You can spin all you want but it is immigrants who have tilted the scales to bring us to where we are today.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Actually Trump is in the political position he his in where he has to compromise and make deals because immigrants have given so much power to the communist Demoncrats and to the RINOs for several generations.

    And in all likelihood each of those things would have been imposed on him with veto overrides or done by Pence/Pelosi after he was impeached.

    Not to mention all the far worse things that Immigrants have enabled. (Obvious Cherry Picking is Obvious)


    You can spin all you want but it is immigrants who have tilted the scales to bring us to where we are today.




    Give it a break, SwordShill. I get it, you are a "nationalist", which is a communist. All you communists think alike - make excuses, blame others, repeat, and then you might sleep easy for an hour or so out of the 8.

    "Cherry pick". LOL
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post



    Give it a break, SwordShill. I get it, you are a "nationalist", which is a communist. All you communists think alike - make excuses, blame others, repeat, and then you might sleep easy for an hour or so out of the 8.

    "Cherry pick". LOL
    Nice projection. Communist.

    But it won't convince anyone any more than any of your other leftist talking points.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    By the way, switching from an a attack on nationalism to an attack on Trump as if the things you attacked him for were nationalism will not fool anyone.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Nationalism by its very nature is highly collectivist. Since nationalism is a form of collectivism it is definitely a form of socialism. Therefore nationalism is just an earlier stage of fascism just as international socialism is an early stage of communism. Of course, since there is really little difference in policy between fascism and communism it really doesn't matter which you get stuck with. Either way you're $#@!ed.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Nationalism by its very nature is highly collectivist. Since nationalism is a form of collectivism it is definitely a form of socialism. Therefore nationalism is just an earlier stage of fascism just as international socialism is an early stage of communism. Of course, since there is really little difference in policy between fascism and communism it really doesn't matter which you get stuck with. Either way you're $#@!ed.
    LOL

    Not all group activity is socialism.

    The fact that anarchists resort to this kind of childish word games instead of dealing with the fact that individuals can't defend themselves against organized tyrants is the best proof of how wrong you are.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    Not all group activity is socialism.

    The fact that anarchists resort to this kind of childish word games instead of dealing with the fact that individuals can't defend themselves against organized tyrants is the best proof of how wrong you are.

    ALL collectivism is socialism. Period. Nationalism is not mere "group activity" it is flat out collectivist tribalism. Period. All of your spin to the contrary notwithstanding.
    Last edited by CCTelander; 05-23-2020 at 11:13 PM.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    ALL collectivism is socialism. Period. Nationalism is not mere "group activity" it is flat out collectivist tribalism. Period. All of your spin to the contrary notwithstanding.
    LOL


    That's pathetic.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL


    That's pathetic.

    That's exactly what a collectivist would say.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    That's exactly what a collectivist would say.
    You just can't help being childish about this can you?


    Group defense of member rights and jurisdictional territory is not socialism, it has nothing to do with ownership of property or the means of production.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL


    That's pathetic.
    Actually, he's correct.

    Btw, you brought trump up first. I merely outlined his partial On the Record as a rebuttal. The first step toward recovery is taking ownership, which you seem to avoid or divert at all costs.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Actually, he's correct.

    Btw, you brought trump up first. I merely outlined his partial On the Record as a rebuttal. The first step toward recovery is taking ownership, which you seem to avoid or divert at all costs.
    I brought up Trump's beginning moves towards nationalism, you tried to change the subject to other things as if they were nationalism because you are fundamentally dishonest due to being unable to defend your position any other way.

    And he is pathetically wrong and so are you.

    Group defense of member rights and jurisdictional territory is not socialism, it has nothing to do with ownership of property or the means of production.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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