Why the murderers of Ahmaud Arbery need to be prosecuted

[John-G]

So now you've moved from "He must have been guilty of burglary because he went for the gun" to "His going for the gun must have been a guilty act because he was guilty of burglary." Ummmm....okay. We'll see what pans out.

I know this. A lot of white people that live 30 miles or more from where I live jog and bike in my neighborhood.

If some white guy with a gun tells me to stop because he wants to talk to me, I will definitely stop and talk to them. No way, I will try going for their gun. Maybe its just the non criminal in me talking.

Sorry but unless u live very close to a park or trail, it is unusual for anyone to be driving 30 plus miles just to jog in your neighbourhood. I would definitely keep an eye on those white guys just for your own safety. Just because he is a white guy doesn't mean he cannot be a criminal.

[69360]

It's got to the point where these things have become so predictable.

SJW defend criminal with lots of race baiting fake outrage. The truth always comes out eventually.

[tod evans]

If some white guy with a gun tells me to stop because he wants to talk to me, I will definitely stop and talk to them. No way, I will try going for their gun. Maybe its just the non criminal in me talking.

Sorry but unless u live very close to a park or trail, it is unusual for anyone to be driving 30 plus miles just to jog in your neighbourhood. I would definitely keep an eye on those white guys just for your own safety. Just because he is a white guy doesn't mean he cannot be a criminal.

Why is it that I don't see stories about random white guys getting gunned down in black neighborhoods?

Where are the white mothers telling everyone who'll listen how good their son was?

Bubba lives matter!

[John-G]

Why is it that I don't see stories about random white guys getting gunned down in black neighborhoods?

Where are the white mothers telling everyone who'll listen how good their son was?

Bubba lives matter!

To be fair, this one would have gone under the radar if not for the bleeding heart lawyer releasing the video to the public. What I meant by that line is that anyone can be dangerous and you wanna keep an eye on anyone doing anything suspicious in your neighbourhood whatever colour they happen to be.

Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feeling.

[bv3]

A few armed men driving up and demanding someone stop doesn't sound too reasonable to me.

This case is going to turn on whether the McMichaels had the right to initiate a citizens arrest, which in turn will require immediate knowledge on the part of McMichael's that Arbery had, in fact, committed a felony. Burglary is a felony in Georgia, so if he stole tools or materials of any kind from the house he was exploring then he did commit a felony. At least one appeal I've read regarding citizen arrests in Georgia seems to say that immediate knowledge can pass through a third party. IE Neighbor A witnesses Mr. Arbery engaging in a felony and immediately notifies McMichael.

If the right to make a citizens arrest stands, then the slaying becomes self defense. Because it gives the McMichaels standing, if you will, to restrain Arbery--reasonably. In that context Arbery's going for McMichael the younger's shotgun escalates what is reasonable straight to lethal force. If it doesn't stand, then it becomes some variant of murder.

OCGA § 17-4-60 provides that a private citizen may make an arrest if a felony is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. A private citizen may make an arrest upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion if the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or trying to escape. For a citizen's arrest to be valid, the citizen must use no more force than is reasonable under the circumstances.

Hayes v. State, 405 SE 2d 660 - Ga: Supreme Court 1991

Suspects admission to the witness Third Party that he had the heroin in the bag would have been sufficient to justify Third Party in making a citizen's arrest; the immediate communication of this information to Arresting party who was watching the transaction and made the arrest, coupled with the fact that a failure of justice would otherwise ensue for lack of a warrant without fault on his part, justified the action.

This seems to be the crux:
Was a felony committed by Arbery? if no, some variant of manslaughter/if yes continue
Was the felony committed in the immediate knowledge of McMichaels? if no, some variant of manslaughter/if yes continue
Was Arbery escaping?
Did McMichaels initiate the arrest with reasonable force?
Did circumstances develop such that reasonable force crossed the lethal thresh-hold?

Please note that Arbery's attorneys are adamant that he did not commit a felony, because they know that if he did (taking so much as a pen from that job site would, through theft, turn that trespass into burglary) their argument could damn well fall apart. Now that we know there is a video of Arbery's actions inside the domicile, those actions plus McMichael's immediate knowledge of those actions will determine what should happen here--as a matter of law. What I am unclear on is if Arbery is on tape committing other burglaries, and the McMichaels have knowledge of that fact, whether that would qualify as "immediate knowledge," as in acquired by McMichaels visual sense.

1) "Dwelling" means any building, structure, or portion thereof which is designed or intended for occupancy for residential use. (2) "Railroad car" shall also include trailers on flatcars, containers on flatcars, trailers on railroad property, or containers on railroad property.
(b) A person commits the offense of burglary in the first degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant dwelling house of another or any building, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, aircraft, or other such structure designed for use as the dwelling of another. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the first degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years. Upon the second conviction for burglary in the first degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two nor more than 20 years. Upon the third and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the first degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 25 years.

(c) A person commits the offense of burglary in the second degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the second degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years. Upon the second and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the second degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than eight years.

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...section-16-7-1

[phill4paul]

Nobody has been tried, yet, the headline "Why the murderers...."

SMDH.

[69360]

This is going to end the same way the Trayvon Martin case ended.

The "jogger" references made me laugh. Yeah he was out jogging 50 miles from home in timberland boots carrying a stolen hammer. The shooter was a former cop who knew this guy had a prior felony and grabbed for the gun. What exactly did everyone expect would happen. There is no racial element to this story that I see.

SJW need to pick their battles better.

[bv3]

Nobody has been tried, yet, the headline "Why the murderers...."

SMDH.

What I find strange, is that Arbery either never had any social media or that his social media presence was scrubbed before they started explaining, "why the murderers..." That arouses my suspicions, to be honest. The heavy racial push behind this confirms some of them.

I don't have any social media, except for this, but I think people like me are exceptions rather than rules.

[bv3]

This is going to end the same way the Trayvon Martin case ended.

The "jogger" references made me laugh. Yeah he was out jogging 50 miles from home in timberland boots carrying a stolen hammer.

SJW need to pick their battles better.

That's as may be, but if Arbery didn't commit a felony and McMaster didn't have immediate knowledge of that crime--well, its a public road and all that.

[69360]

That's as may be, but if Arbery didn't commit a felony and McMaster didn't have immediate knowledge of that crime--well, its a public road and all that.

There is no law that prohibits them from asking him what he is doing. There is allegedly video of the burglary. It isn't clear to me if McMaster knew that fact at the time or not. There is definate video of the gun grab. That alone will exonerate the pre-meditated murder charge. If the intent was to murder he would have just shot him on sight, not wait for the charge and attempted gun grab.

The SJW picked a weak case to go all in on.

[Anti Globalist]

Last I checked people who carry a hammer with them aren't going for walks. They are deliberately finding houses to rob.

[Danke]

Last I checked people who carry a hammer with them aren't going for walks. They are deliberately finding houses to rob.

Looks more like a power tool from that construction site.

[tod evans]

To be fair, this one would have gone under the radar if not for the bleeding heart lawyer releasing the video to the public. What I meant by that line is that anyone can be dangerous and you wanna keep an eye on anyone doing anything suspicious in your neighbourhood whatever colour they happen to be.

Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feeling.

You certainly didn't hurt my feelings.

Bubba Sr. apparently was a cop so there's some genetic issues to begin with, but I'll not buy into the MSM narrative that Bubba's out looking to lynch a Darkie.

[Brian4Liberty]

This is going to end the same way the Trayvon Martin case ended.

The "jogger" references made me laugh. Yeah he was out jogging 50 miles from home in timberland boots carrying a stolen hammer. The shooter was a former cop who knew this guy had a prior felony and grabbed for the gun. What exactly did everyone expect would happen. There is no racial element to this story that I see.

SJW need to pick their battles better.

I believe we have discussed this before on the forum. The stories that are pushed by the media to become major outrages are always highly questionable. They are never clear cut, and usually can be justified. This seems to be intentional. It serves to make it more divisive, and it also pushes the boundary. If the most questionable case can be spun like this, then any case can.

[Brian4Liberty]

Last I checked people who carry a hammer with them aren't going for walks. They are deliberately finding houses to rob.

He wouldn't be able to carry much. He was probably scouting. Where was his vehicle? Has that come out?

I believe one of the stories mentioned that a handgun had been stolen in the past. That’s one valuable item that could be carried away without a vehicle. Not many other options, maybe a wallet/backpack/computer/phone.

[69360]

He wouldn't be able to carry much. He was probably scouting. Where was his vehicle? Has that come out?

I believe one of the stories mentioned that a handgun had been stolen in the past. That’s one valuable item that could be carried away without a vehicle. Not many other options, maybe a wallet/backpack/computer/phone.

It appears he dropped a tool of some sort maybe a hammer, likely taken from the construction site. But what it was and where it came from has not been proven yet.

It will be interesting to find out how he got this far from his home on foot.

[dannno]

A few armed men driving up and demanding someone stop doesn't sound too reasonable to me.

Saying "Please stop, we want to talk to you" and being armed is not against the law. Especially since they witnessed him commit a felony and were initiating a citizens arrest which is legal under Georgia law.

He could have run away and it would have been ILLEGAL for them to shoot him.

But instead, as you can see in the video (did you watch the video??) he actually runs toward the truck, around the side, and tries to grab the gun from his son. When you grab a gun from somebody and pull it toward you, it is very likely that the person with the gun will inadvertently pull the trigger. This guy "literally" shot himself. I don't mean like he did something to deserve being shot, I mean he was armed - he had possession of a weapon in his hands - and he pulled the trigger by pulling the gun toward his body. He literally, physically, mechanically shot himself. And he was armed, because he had a gun in his hands. Just noting this because the media claimed he was shot unarmed, which is inaccurate.

[Brian4Liberty]

It appears he dropped a tool of some sort maybe a hammer, likely taken from the construction site. But what it was and where it came from has not been proven yet.

It will be interesting to find out how he got this far from his home on foot.

He either had a vehicle somewhere, or he had an accomplice in a vehicle somewhere.

We had an attempted daylight burglary in my neighborhood, and one guy stayed in the getaway car. When discovered, the burglar jumped fences to run through to the next block, the getaway driver drove around the block and picked him up. Probably a common tactic.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Whether he deserved it or not, he was obviously casing the place. Blue checks on twitter (conservatives too, perhaps even predominantly) are claiming that going into houses under construction is some every day commonplace thing. Bull$#@!.

This is a really bad confluence of circumstances, but I'm not seeing a murder.

[tebowlives]

Oh no doubt. But there is the other way to spin the same story.



Anyhow we'll see what happens at trial. No doubt everyone will be pissed when it's all over no matter what happens.

I enjoy and usually agree with Colion, but not this time. They had the drop on Arbery. You dont get aggressive and attack. That's not the norm. Pick your fights and live to tell about them.

[Brian4Liberty]

https://twitter.com/wsbtv/status/1259824816351305729

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/geo...ell-channel-2/

[AngryCanadian]

https://twitter.com/wsbtv/status/1259824816351305729

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/geo...ell-channel-2/

I am curious how the new prosecutor would view that stolen hammer as seen in the video that was released. Are they going to avoid that?

[AngryCanadian]

Whether he deserved it or not, he was obviously casing the place. Blue checks on twitter (conservatives too, perhaps even predominantly) are claiming that going into houses under construction is some every day commonplace thing. Bull$#@!.

This is a really bad confluence of circumstances, but I'm not seeing a murder.

If those blue checks on twitter conservatives and leftists believe that its completely normal to walk in a construction everyday or night is normal then they should try doing it in Canada or Europe.

You will be arrested.

I am surprised that construction had no guards or police controlling that area.

[John-G]

Whether he deserved it or not, he was obviously casing the place. Blue checks on twitter (conservatives too, perhaps even predominantly) are claiming that going into houses under construction is some every day commonplace thing. Bull$#@!.

This is a really bad confluence of circumstances, but I'm not seeing a murder.

Going into the construction site in most circumstances would not be the end of the world. What makes it egregious is that he now runs when confronted and refuses to stop when pursued. This is a big reg flag to most people. This would have been considered suicide by cop had those gun men been cops.

[dean.engelhardt]

Considering that he wasn't out there jogging but instead most likely trying to steal stuff, he should have known that they weren't trying to kidnap him but instead trying to inquire about property issues.

I also have read stuff that says he lives 40 miles and now 80 miles away from where he was killed. Anyone actually know where he lives?

They already confessed to an unlawful arrest. That may not technically be kidnapping, but close enough for me.

[Brian4Liberty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCzJyFKoqo

[John-G]

They already confessed to an unlawful arrest. That may not technically be kidnapping, but close enough for me.

Arrest? they didn't arrest him, they just wanted to chat with the fella who ran out of a construction site he had no business being in. It legal to open carry, its legal to try to talk to a man but what is illegal is attacking a gunman and trying to take their gun.

People say the gunmen should have called the cops, well he could have also called the cops instead of trying to disarm a gun man.

[dean.engelhardt]

Arrest? they didn't arrest him, they just wanted to chat with the fella who ran out of a construction site he had no business being in. It legal to open carry, its legal to try to talk to a man but what is illegal is attacking a gunman and trying to take their gun.

People say the gunmen should have called the cops, well he could have also called the cops instead of trying to disarm a gun man.

I'm trying to find the original article. I'll share it when I find it. McMichael's told the police he went to citizens arrest the man because he matched the description of someone who was breaking into homes nearby. He stated this was the purpose before the confronted Arbery. I immediately thought he needed a lawyer present before talk to the cops.

If this is the statement, then the attempted citizens arrest was an unlawful act and a discharge of the weapon during the commission of an unlawful act. A lot hinges on the citizens arrest argument. If McMichael's said he saw or had immediate knowledge the man was stealing from the house, he'd have a reasonable defense. It would be nice to have the full transcript.

My opinion of the citizens arrest conflicts with the original DA's opinion. I think the DA's opinion really stretchers things.

[tebowlives]

There is no law that prohibits them from asking him what he is doing. There is allegedly video of the burglary. It isn't clear to me if McMaster knew that fact at the time or not. There is definate video of the gun grab. That alone will exonerate the pre-meditated murder charge. If the intent was to murder he would have just shot him on sight, not wait for the charge and attempted gun grab.

The SJW picked a weak case to go all in on.

Displaying a gun can be considered an act of aggression which makes Arbery the one defending himself even if he lunges and swings first.

[tebowlives]

Saying "Please stop, we want to talk to you" and being armed is not against the law. Especially since they witnessed him commit a felony and were initiating a citizens arrest which is legal under Georgia law.

He could have run away and it would have been ILLEGAL for them to shoot him.

But instead, as you can see in the video (did you watch the video??) he actually runs toward the truck, around the side, and tries to grab the gun from his son. When you grab a gun from somebody and pull it toward you, it is very likely that the person with the gun will inadvertently pull the trigger. This guy "literally" shot himself. I don't mean like he did something to deserve being shot, I mean he was armed - he had possession of a weapon in his hands - and he pulled the trigger by pulling the gun toward his body. He literally, physically, mechanically shot himself. And he was armed, because he had a gun in his hands. Just noting this because the media claimed he was shot unarmed, which is inaccurate.

I don't think you can go after someone over theft since there isn't force used. If it was a robbery then he could.

Keep hearing that the B and E into the unoccupied house was a felony and therefore a citizens arrest is legal.