Why the murderers of Ahmaud Arbery need to be prosecuted

[jmdrake]

I believe the gun men tried several times to get him to stop but he kept on running. Again, had he complied with this reasonable request to stop, none of this would have happened. Regardless, u try to grab a man's gun and you force him into a position where he has to shoot you. Remember if they had wanted to kill Ahmaud, they could have done it inside the car.

So, you've never heard of a situation where someone has been kidnapped, taken somewhere else and then killed? Because I've heard of that plenty of times. We can't hear what was being said from inside the truck so there is no way to tell if it sounded "reasonable" or not. I do know years ago some when I was walking back to my car from class some skinheads in a jeep pulled up and yelled something at me. I couldn't make out what they said, but there is no way in hell I would have let them pull me in their vehicle. Thankfully they just drove off. But if they had pulled a gun and said "get in" then one of us would have died right then. And yes, that likely would have been me. But I would rather have that happen then my body never be found and/or there never be any witnesses of what happened. But I am speaking only for myself.

[jmdrake]

Well wait, tell me what happened then, that's just what I saw watching the video. I haven't seen it before, I haven't heard anybody else describe what is in the video. The guy ran up to the truck, which was stopped, and grabbed the guys' gun.. right? What is the real story?

According to @John-G the men in the truck tried to get Ahmaud to stop several times. So he didn't "run up to them." They pulled in front of him and stopped. I've heard that same description of what happened several times now.

[Anti Federalist]

Have you watched the video yet?

Yes, it's of such poor quality it shows me very little...specifically what happened at first encounter.

[dannno]

In the first 5 seconds of the video I posted is an intro. The next 3 seconds of the video, I see a stopped truck about 50 yards out with a guy A standing to the left of it and another guy B in the truck bed, and a guy C running toward the stopped truck from behind.

From 8 seconds to 14 seconds, the camera is facing the wrong direction and you can't see anything.

At the 15 second mark, I see a guy C running around the right side of the truck, toward the front, where it appears he attacks the man A with the gun, they get in a scuffle on the left side of the truck and the man C is shot and finally gives up the scuffle.

What else did I miss?

[John-G]

So, you've never heard of a situation where someone has been kidnapped, taken somewhere else and then killed? Because I've heard of that plenty of times. We can't hear what was being said from inside the truck so there is no way to tell if it sounded "reasonable" or not. I do know years ago some when I was walking back to my car from class some skinheads in a jeep pulled up and yelled something at me. I couldn't make out what they said, but there is no way in hell I would have let them pull me in their vehicle. Thankfully they just drove off. But if they had pulled a gun and said "get in" then one of us would have died right then. And yes, that likely would have been me. But I would rather have that happen then my body never be found and/or there never be any witnesses of what happened. But I am speaking only for myself.

Considering that he wasn't out there jogging but instead most likely trying to steal stuff, he should have known that they weren't trying to kidnap him but instead trying to inquire about property issues.

I also have read stuff that says he lives 40 miles and now 80 miles away from where he was killed. Anyone actually know where he lives?

[John-G]

Trayvon Martin posted his jewelry heists on facebook. Skittles and AZ iced tea are mixed with opioid cough medicine to create an illicit drink called "lean". Trayvon had a few inches on Zimmerman, but the media made him out to be some innocent little kid with candy.

Excuse me if I don't believe one single $#@!ing word the media says about this case.

Where were you on Trayvon Martin again jmdrake?

How is this a response to my post?

[dannno]

How is this a response to my post?

It's not a refutation, it was an agreement, and showing how the media completely distorts reality in these cases.

[Brian4Liberty]

Okay. I wouldn't have tried to apprehend someone that I had not personally witnessed committing a crime but to each his own. If someone jumped out of his truck pointing a gun at me I would not have seen that as a reasonable request. I probably would have pulled my own gun and may the fasted trigger win.

According to the DA, they were "following, in 'hot pursuit', a burglary suspect, with first hand probable cause, in their neighborhood..."

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...on-Ahmaud.html

[John-G]

It's not a refutation, it was an agreement, and showing how the media completely distorts reality in these cases.

Gotcha

[sparebulb]

We have our media exit strategy for the Covid-19 story.

And corporate media gets to run this one all the way to the election blaming whitey and their leader Trump for this lynching.

[jmdrake]

According to the DA, they were "following, in 'hot pursuit', a burglary suspect, with first hand probable cause, in their neighborhood..."

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...on-Ahmaud.html

I've read that document. He didn't identify the burglary they were supposedly in hot pursuit of. But we shall see.

[jmdrake]

Considering that he wasn't out there jogging but instead most likely trying to steal stuff, he should have known that they weren't trying to kidnap him but instead trying to inquire about property issues.

I also have read stuff that says he lives 40 miles and now 80 miles away from where he was killed. Anyone actually know where he lives?

So now you've moved from "He must have been guilty of burglary because he went for the gun" to "His going for the gun must have been a guilty act because he was guilty of burglary." Ummmm....okay. We'll see what pans out.

I know this. A lot of white people that live 30 miles or more from where I live jog and bike in my neighborhood.

[Brian4Liberty]

I cannot find any confirmation of Candace Owen's claim that Ahmaud's mother confirmed anything about a Larry English video. That video has not been released. And Larry English did not report the burglary to the police according to The Blaze.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/ahmaud...nce-burglaries

Video at this link. Someone walks up, stops, looks both ways, walks into the open garage, walks back out and around the back. Next thing is someone walks up across the street and stands behind a tree, appears to be on the phone*. Next we see the intruder run out the front door of the house and down the street faster than Forest Gump.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/artic...c-3a3d517b19ed

*

Shortly before the deadly altercation, a man called 911 to report they thought someone could be breaking into the home, then a man called 911 to report someone running away.

There were, however, official reports, or statements from the McMichaels and their neighbors in the months preceding the shooting, reporting the theft of a weapon from a vehicle and incidents of trespassing.

Prior police reports said surveillance video captured images of the person trespassing, who was described as a light-skinned black male with short hair twists and tattoos. According to a prior police report, he had a tattoo that said “0 Regrets One Life To Live” on his right arm.

[jmdrake]

Video at this link. Someone walks up, stops, looks both ways, walks into the open garage, walks back out and around the back. Next thing is someone walks up across the street and stands behind a tree, appears to be on the phone*. Next we see the intruder run out the front door of the house and down the street faster than Forest Gump.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/artic...c-3a3d517b19ed

Shortly before the deadly altercation, a man called 911 to report they thought someone could be breaking into the home, then a man called 911 to report someone running away.

There were, however, official reports, or statements from the McMichaels and their neighbors in the months preceding the shooting, reporting the theft of a weapon from a vehicle and incidents of trespassing.

Prior police reports said surveillance video captured images of the person trespassing, who was described as a light-skinned black male with short hair twists and tattoos. According to a prior police report, he had a tattoo that said “0 Regrets One Life To Live” on his right arm.

*

That's a bit confusing. Ahmed was dark skinned with short hair. I can't tell from the article or what you highlighted if the police report was wrong, if there was surveillance video from a different day, or something else. From your same article:

Investigators have not said there is any evidence that Arbery burglarized the home. Police reports following the killing did not note any stolen material on Arbery.

Also there is no evidence that he did anything but look inside a house under construction. I can't count how many times I've done that. The intent is never to steal anything but to see if its a house I'm interested in buying or if its the type of plan that I like. People who are looking to steal from construction sites usually have a truck (you can't carry away an air conditioner on foot) and/or tools to cut out copper pipe or wire (you can't do that with a hammer). In fact in the video I don't see a hammer, though admittedly it's far away. I know about what gets stolen from construction sites because I've had houses being built or remodeled where air conditioning and/or copper has been stolen.

[Anti Federalist]

We have our media exit strategy for the Covid-19 story.

And corporate media gets to run this one all the way to the election blaming whitey and their leader Trump for this lynching.

/thread

[Anti Federalist]

There must be a separation.


The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...howing/611389/

[Danke]

https://www.ajc.com/news/surveillanc...XkbkKeXrCFBTK/

[Danke]

They told him to drop it (the hammer) you can see it on the road at 7 sec. mark.

[sparebulb]

They told him to drop it (the hammer) you can see it on the road at 7 sec. mark.

He looks like he could be Obama's son.

Or Bill Klinton's.

[kpitcher]

I believe the gun men tried several times to get him to stop but he kept on running. Again, had he complied with this reasonable request to stop, none of this would have happened. Regardless, u try to grab a man's gun and you force him into a position where he has to shoot you. Remember if they had wanted to kill Ahmaud, they could have done it inside the car.

A few armed men driving up and demanding someone stop doesn't sound too reasonable to me.

[enhanced_deficit]

https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/sta...02646864510977

Those calims are being disputed.

https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/sta...18704614768643

[enhanced_deficit]

He looks like he could be Obama's son.

Or Bill Klinton's.

“So I saw the tape, and it’s very, very disturbing, the tape. I got to see it. It’s very disturbing. I looked at a picture of that young man. He was in a tuxedo, and — in fact, he put it up. And I will say that that looks like a really good, young guy,” Trump told “Fox & Friends.”

But he didn't go as far as Obama had in the case of Trayvon shooting.


Ivanka Trump demands to know why it 'took months' to arrest two men accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery
by Spencer Neale
| May 08, 2020
washingtonexaminer.com/news/ivanka-trump-demands-to-know-why-it-took-months-to-arrest-two-men-accused-of-murdering-ahmaud-arbery


It's in the realm of possibility that media released this video on pressure from Trump administration after being aproached by Kim Kardashian, Van Jones or other social justice activists. Few months back, fter being approached by Kardashian reportedly Trump White House had acted aggressively to put pressure on Sweden for release of rapper Rocky ASAP arrested there on assault charges.

[Brian4Liberty]

https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/1259347655806705670

[Brian4Liberty]

That's a bit confusing. Ahmed was dark skinned with short hair. I can't tell from the article or what you highlighted if the police report was wrong, if there was surveillance video from a different day, or something else. From your same article:



Also there is no evidence that he did anything but look inside a house under construction. I can't count how many times I've done that. The intent is never to steal anything but to see if its a house I'm interested in buying or if its the type of plan that I like. People who are looking to steal from construction sites usually have a truck (you can't carry away an air conditioner on foot) and/or tools to cut out copper pipe or wire (you can't do that with a hammer). In fact in the video I don't see a hammer, though admittedly it's far away. I know about what gets stolen from construction sites because I've had houses being built or remodeled where air conditioning and/or copper has been stolen.

And after taking a leisurely stroll through a house under construction, do you sprint out the front door and down the street?

[dannno]

[dannno]

Yes, it's of such poor quality it shows me very little...specifically what happened at first encounter.

Please stop, we would like to talk to you.

..

[dannno]

Wow. Mind blown. Case solved. It's all so clear now. Props to Molyneux for getting to the bottom of it.. mostly because he had to say it before I realized what happened, even after he provided all of the evidence.. not sure why it didn't hit me right away.

This runs much deeper than you can imagine. It turns out that the father was one of the investigators in the case of his weapons charge several years earlier, and he had faced him down in court.

So Ahmaud runs out of the house that is under construction that was illegal for him to be in, is chased down and who does he see? The police investigator he faced down in court several years earlier for his weapons charges.

So he runs. As he is running, he realizes.. "Oh $#@!. I'm screwed. Because now I'm not just some guy running down the street who somebody has to pick out of a lineup, now I've looked into the eyes of someone who knows who I am.. he knows my name.. and I have two strikes.. This will be my third strike.. I can't run, what am I going to run for? They know who I am."

So instead of running away from the truck, he runs toward it, circles around, attacks the son with the shotgun, pulls on the shotgun and discharges the weapon into himself.

But according to the left, he was just out for a jog and was hunted down by white supremacists

[bv3]

I haven't seen any thread on this other than the one by @enhanced_deficit and it only covers the reactions of Biden and Trump and I could care less what either of them have to say about...well anything.

So here's why they should have been prosecuted from the beginning even without a video and I'm glad they are being prosecuted now. Their "defense" was that they were doing a "citizens arrest." Georgia's citizen's arrest law states the following:

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...cle-4/17-4-60/
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Never did they claim to have witnessed a crime or have had any immediate knowledge of a crime. They just said there were some burglaries in the area. That's it! Only....that wasn't true. No burglaries had recently been reported in their neighborhood. The son's gun had been stolen out of his truck because he had foolishly left the door unlocked. But that doesn't count as a crime committed "in his presence" and there's no evidence so far that he saw who took the gun. Also they are now stuck with there initial argument about burglaries, though I wouldn't be surprised if they now tried to claim they had "seen" Ahmaud or someone who looked like him running away from the son's truck about the time the gun was stolen.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...4be-story.html

Thankfully this time there was a video tape so we don't have to speculate about Ahmaud's final moments.

It needs to be investigated, pursued, and, I suppose, prosecuted in the colloquial sense. However, it seems to me that this incident depends on rights. Did the McMichaels have the right to engage Mr. Arbery in conversation? Yes, duh. More importantly, did they have the right to initiate a "citizens arrest?"

If new information is accurate, they did indeed have such a right. Regarding immediate knowledge, Georgia courts have ruled that,

The phrases "in his presence" and "within his immediate knowledge" are synonymous and a crime is committed in one's presence if by the exercise of any of his senses he has knowledge of its commission....It is not only the right but the duty of a private citizen when a felony is committed to apprehend the felon; "and, after a felony is committed, any private person may arrest the felon with the same view, upon reasonable and probable ground of suspicion of his guilt." "A private man has quite as much power to arrest a fugitive felon, where the emergency calls for immediate action, as a public officer, and while so doing, is equally under the protection of the law.

DISCLAIMER: ALL OF THE FOLLOWING IS ALLEGED REGARDING MR. ARBERY, MR. MICHMICHAELS, AND ALL THE PARTICULARS OF THIS EVENT.
New information indicates that Mr. Arbery had just committed either trespassing, of some degree, or burglary--a felony in all degrees. Ostensibly, this information was relayed to the elder McMichael. Information passes into a person's head through "the exercise of one or more of his senses." Thus, Mr. McMichaels could have it within his immediate knowledge a reasonable and probable ground to believe that Mr. Arbery had just committed a felony, even if he had not witnessed Mr. Arbery commit the crime. Furthermore, even if Mr. Arbery had just been engaging in some merely mischievous and benign breaking and entering, it is entirely possible that McMichaels had Mr. Arbery's participation in earlier felonies within his immediate knowledge (video evidence of these earlier crimes possibly existing, and having been shown around what seems to be a tightly knit community). The neighbor that initially called 911 to report the felony burglary or misdemeanor trespass indicates that a black male, moreover the same black male being referenced in the call, has been repeatedly burglarizing (felony) the neighborhood. Given these possibilities, It seems that the McMichaels could very well have had a right to initiate a citizens arrest.

During a citizens arrest, the citizen may not use any more force than is necessary to effect the arrest

only force that is reasonable under the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual arrested.

. The evidence seems to indicate that the McMichaels attempted to use their voices to restrain Mr. Arbery by commanding him to stop. However, when Mr. Arbery lunges for the firearm of the younger McMichael, the force that is reasonable changes along with the drastic escalation of circumstances. Pursuing Mr. Arbery in a vehicle, with the knowledge that Mr. Arbery had committed a felony, is reasonable

It is not only the right but the duty of a private citizen when a felony is committed to apprehend the felon

. at least as plausible as two white guys in a truck hunting down a black guy for sport, killing him, and then waiting for the police.

So, its really not as simple as you say. You are not savvy to what information the McMichaels had re. Arbery. If a burglary occurs, but isn't reported, does it cease to be a felony? I don't know, not a law dog. Investigation is appropriate, obviously, baying for blood is unproductive. Helps drive in the wedge. But having said all that, I think the whole situation stinks to high heaven. I've come to expect such spectacles during the Month of Racial-Antagonism-that-is-known-as-May. I don't really give a $#@! for it all. An exit strategy, indeed.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2764884755043889629&q=citizens+a rrest&hl=en&as_sdt=4,11


Arbery neither deserved death nor was hunted.

[tod evans]

Wow. Mind blown. Case solved. It's all so clear now. Props to Molyneux for getting to the bottom of it.. mostly because he had to say it before I realized what happened, even after he provided all of the evidence.. not sure why it didn't hit me right away.

This runs much deeper than you can imagine. It turns out that the father was one of the investigators in the case of his weapons charge several years earlier, and he had faced him down in court.

So Ahmaud runs out of the house that is under construction that was illegal for him to be in, is chased down and who does he see? The police investigator he faced down in court several years earlier for his weapons charges.

So he runs. As he is running, he realizes.. "Oh $#@!. I'm screwed. Because now I'm not just some guy running down the street who somebody has to pick me out of a lineup, now I've looked into the eyes of someone who knows who I am.. he knows my name.. and I have two strikes.. This will be my third strike.. I can't run, what am I going to run for? They know who I am."

So instead of running away from the truck, he runs toward it, circles around, attacks the son with the shotgun, pulls on the shotgun and discharges the weapon into himself.

But according to the left, he was just out for a jog and was hunted down by white supremacists

Thank you for transcribing and condensing Molyneux's droning.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to listen to him.

[John-G]

A few armed men driving up and demanding someone stop doesn't sound too reasonable to me.

Considering the context, that he was probably a thief in the neighbourhood and they gun men could have just shot him if that was what they were after. In that context, a gunman wanting to chat with you is not that unreasonable.

Sad for him but he learned this the worst way possible. RIP