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Thread: Why the murderers of Ahmaud Arbery need to be prosecuted

  1. #1

    Why the murderers of Ahmaud Arbery need to be prosecuted

    I haven't seen any thread on this other than the one by @enhanced_deficit and it only covers the reactions of Biden and Trump and I could care less what either of them have to say about...well anything.

    So here's why they should have been prosecuted from the beginning even without a video and I'm glad they are being prosecuted now. Their "defense" was that they were doing a "citizens arrest." Georgia's citizen's arrest law states the following:

    https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...cle-4/17-4-60/
    A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

    Never did they claim to have witnessed a crime or have had any immediate knowledge of a crime. They just said there were some burglaries in the area. That's it! Only....that wasn't true. No burglaries had recently been reported in their neighborhood. The son's gun had been stolen out of his truck because he had foolishly left the door unlocked. But that doesn't count as a crime committed "in his presence" and there's no evidence so far that he saw who took the gun. Also they are now stuck with there initial argument about burglaries, though I wouldn't be surprised if they now tried to claim they had "seen" Ahmaud or someone who looked like him running away from the son's truck about the time the gun was stolen.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...4be-story.html

    Thankfully this time there was a video tape so we don't have to speculate about Ahmaud's final moments.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #2
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  4. #3
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    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

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    IƎ⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  5. #4
    Staying away from this $#@! show.

  6. #5
    Had just come across this news headlines on Drudge and had not read details on the case yet at the time but got the sense this news story could become major national news. That was just initial impression about a national media top headlines shift away from coronavirus in months and after a comment I heard about timing of surfacing in media of a video from Feb. Based on reporting have seen since then, details cited in media seem to be pretty strong and timing also does not seem like any political retribution for GA governor because he had reportedly embarrassed Trump.

    This story's social justice aspect is the main subject as you suggested drake. But I would add that US leaders tone on such issues is also an important and relevant part of any discussion especially in the context of US Politics. If we look at Obama and Trump's statements then about shooting of Trayvon Martin and birth of Black Lives Matter movement, would be hard to argue that top political/social/media leaders voices are not important even if not the most important part as you stated correctly. This aspect also political significance as Trump adminstration in recent years has shifted towards embracing social justice issues, woke values and had hosted some Black Lives Matter activists at the White House, CPAC.
    I try to follow up with details in multiple posts but can post only media/political aspects in that discussion since there is already a discussion on social justice topic here.

  7. #6
    Without researching this too deeply, some points come to mind:

    1-Don't play cop. Even if you had witnessed theft of property, in almost every state, it would be illegal to use deadly force after the fact to attempt to recover it.

    2-Deadly force is to be used to stop imminent threat to life and limb only.

    3-Don't talk to cops after the fact of a deadly force use incident without competent (not your brother in law who is a tax attorney) legal counsel.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    Staying away from this $#@! show.
    Yeah well, now that the SJW mob has gotten ahold of it...that is all it will be...a $#@! show.

  9. #8
    Here some local stories about mob beatings that kill people. It took me five seconds to find these on Google. I wonder why the national media doesn't cover them at all. What is it about them that makes them one day local news stories? Can't put my finger on it. Real puzzler.

    https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/vid...oits-west-side
    https://woldcnews.com/1502943/detroi...-car-accident/


    And for some reason sure Lebron James didn't Tweet this national story out when it happened. And he didn't say anyone is hunted everyday. Strange. Hard to imagine why.

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/us/ch...ing/index.html
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 05-09-2020 at 11:43 AM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    Staying away from this $#@! show.
    Anytime the media gets a hold of these stories, they always become a $#@! show.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yeah well, now that the SJW mob has gotten ahold of it...that is all it will be...a $#@! show.
    dont these SJWs even look at the video twice? i will try not get into the debate but how does the video show that Arabery is innocent when he was running towards the guy with the gun and from what it looks like tried to grab his gun?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    dont these SJWs even look at the video twice? i will try not get into the debate but how does the video show that Arabery is innocent when he was running towards the guy with the gun and from what it looks like tried to grab his gun?
    A couple of years ago a man entered a Waffle House here in Nashville with and AR15 and killed two innocent people before another man took the gun away from him. So someone trying to grab a gun isn't proof of guilt.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/22/us/wa...now/index.html
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    A couple of years ago a man entered a Waffle House here in Nashville with and AR15 and killed two innocent people before another man took the gun away from him. So someone trying to grab a gun isn't proof of guilt.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/22/us/wa...now/index.html
    I am clearly staying away from this debate if there are SJWs. So yeah. Media will no doubt try to push for gun control. This hasnt being working out in Canada.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    I am clearly staying away from this debate if there are SJWs. So yeah. Media will no doubt try to push for gun control. This hasnt being working out in Canada.
    Oh no doubt. But there is the other way to spin the same story.



    Anyhow we'll see what happens at trial. No doubt everyone will be pissed when it's all over no matter what happens.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  16. #14

    https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/sta...02646864510977
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    dont these SJWs even look at the video twice? i will try not get into the debate but how does the video show that Arabery is innocent when he was running towards the guy with the gun and from what it looks like tried to grab his gun?
    If I was out for a jog and a couple of guys start yelling at me to stop, I would generally stop to see what was up. If they were pointing guns at me saying stop, I would probably stop even faster. Attempting to grab a gun and wrestle it away would not be my first thought.

    Now if the assumption is that these are two criminals in the middle of the street in broad daylight looking to rob you, is the recommended strategy to charge them and try to take away their weapon? Do they teach that in self-defense classes?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    Would the media cover the story if 2 Black Guys shot a white guy?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Without researching this too deeply, some points come to mind:

    1-Don't play cop. Even if you had witnessed theft of property, in almost every state, it would be illegal to use deadly force after the fact to attempt to recover it.

    2-Deadly force is to be used to stop imminent threat to life and limb only.

    3-Don't talk to cops after the fact of a deadly force use incident without competent (not your brother in law who is a tax attorney) legal counsel.
    Purely hypothetical, but if a person trained in self-defense and concealed carry were walking down the street, and someone walked up pointing a gun and demanding your wallet and phone, what would be recommend?

    A - Charge them and take their weapon.
    B - Pull out your weapon and shoot them.
    C - Turn and run.
    D - Give them your wallet and phone.
    E - Fake a heart attack and fall on the ground screaming.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    A couple of years ago a man entered a Waffle House here in Nashville with and AR15 and killed two innocent people before another man took the gun away from him. So someone trying to grab a gun isn't proof of guilt.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/22/us/wa...now/index.html
    Does that mean one should go around grabbing people's guns because in some waffle house somewhere in America, someone with an AR opened fire? The way I see it, if those 2 vigilantes wanted to kill, they could have done it inside the car. It seems to me that they just wanted to talk to him and see what was going on but for some reason, he took this very reasonable request as a threat to his life and tried to grab the gun.

    I don't like seeing people dying but he only has himself to blame by grabbing the gun. I too would have killed any stranger who I suspect to be a criminal if they tried to grab my gun.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Purely hypothetical, but if a person trained in self-defense and concealed carry were walking down the street, and someone walked up pointing a gun and demanding your wallet and phone, what would be recommend?

    A - Charge them and take their weapon.
    B - Pull out your weapon and shoot them.
    C - Turn and run.
    D - Give them your wallet and phone.
    E - Fake a heart attack and fall on the ground screaming.
    Throw down some money and run.
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ N
    IƎ⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post

    https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/sta...02646864510977
    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    Does that mean one should go around grabbing people's guns because in some waffle house somewhere in America, someone with an AR opened fire? The way I see it, if those 2 vigilantes wanted to kill, they could have done it inside the car. It seems to me that they just wanted to talk to him and see what was going on but for some reason, he took this very reasonable request as a threat to his life and tried to grab the gun.

    I don't like seeing people dying but he only has himself to blame by grabbing the gun. I too would have killed any stranger who I suspect to be a criminal if they tried to grab my gun.
    Okay. I wouldn't have tried to apprehend someone that I had not personally witnessed committing a crime but to each his own. If someone jumped out of his truck pointing a gun at me I would not have seen that as a reasonable request. I probably would have pulled my own gun and may the fasted trigger win.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Purely hypothetical, but if a person trained in self-defense and concealed carry were walking down the street, and someone walked up pointing a gun and demanding your wallet and phone, what would be recommend?

    A - Charge them and take their weapon.
    B - Pull out your weapon and shoot them.
    C - Turn and run.
    D - Give them your wallet and phone.
    E - Fake a heart attack and fall on the ground screaming.
    I'm a big fan of John Corriea at Active Self Protection.

    In the scenario you described, option D and then C.

    If someone has the drop on you, you wait your turn and comply until you see a chance to counter ambush.

    I don't care if you're Doc Holliday, you will get shot if you try to draw from the drop.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 05-09-2020 at 03:03 PM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm a big fan of John Corriea at Active Self Protection.

    In the scenario you described, option D and then C.

    If someone has the drop on you, you wait your turn and comply until you see a chance to counter ambush.

    I don't care if you're Doc Holliday, you will get shot if you try to draw from the drop.
    If you do option C make sure you don't run in a straight line.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post

    https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/sta...02646864510977
    I cannot find any confirmation of Candace Owen's claim that Ahmaud's mother confirmed anything about a Larry English video. That video has not been released. And Larry English did not report the burglary to the police according to The Blaze.

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/ahmaud...nce-burglaries
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  29. #25

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Have you watched the video yet?



    Looks like he ran up on those guys from behind, tried to grab his gun and they shot him.

    I'm not sure what all the hub bub is about.

    Maybe jmdrake can explain.

    Is this the same video you saw jmdrake?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Okay. I wouldn't have tried to apprehend someone that I had not personally witnessed committing a crime but to each his own. If someone jumped out of his truck pointing a gun at me I would not have seen that as a reasonable request. I probably would have pulled my own gun and may the fasted trigger win.
    I believe the gun men tried several times to get him to stop but he kept on running. Again, had he complied with this reasonable request to stop, none of this would have happened. Regardless, u try to grab a man's gun and you force him into a position where he has to shoot you. Remember if they had wanted to kill Ahmaud, they could have done it inside the car.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Have you watched the video yet?



    Looks like he ran up on those guys from behind, tried to grab his gun and they shot him.

    I'm not sure what all the hub bub is about.

    Maybe jmdrake can explain.

    Is this the same video you saw jmdrake?
    Ran up to them from behind? Even the defendants aren't claiming that. You make it sound like they were just randomly parked on the side of the road, he "ran up to them from behind" and then "jumped in the truck and tried to grab their gun." Nobody is claiming that's what happened. But hey, if that's the way you see it then that's how you see it.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    I believe the gun men tried several times to get him to stop but he kept on running. Again, had he complied with this reasonable request to stop, none of this would have happened. Regardless, u try to grab a man's gun and you force him into a position where he has to shoot you. Remember if they had wanted to kill Ahmaud, they could have done it inside the car.
    Trayvon Martin posted his jewelry heists on facebook. Skittles and AZ iced tea are mixed with opioid cough medicine to create an illicit drink called "lean". Trayvon had a few inches on Zimmerman, but the media made him out to be some innocent little kid with candy.

    Excuse me if I don't believe one single $#@!ing word the media says about this case.

    Where were you on Trayvon Martin again jmdrake?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Ran up to them from behind? Even the defendants aren't claiming that. You make it sound like they were just randomly parked on the side of the road, he "ran up to them from behind" and then "jumped in the truck and tried to grab their gun." Nobody is claiming that's what happened. But hey, if that's the way you see it then that's how you see it.
    Well wait, tell me what happened then, that's just what I saw watching the video. I haven't seen it before, I haven't heard anybody else describe what is in the video. The guy ran up to the truck, which was stopped, and grabbed the guys' gun.. right? What is it that I'm missing?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

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