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Thread: CDC Tells Hospitals To List COVID as Cause of Death Even if You're Just Assuming

  1. #1

    CDC Tells Hospitals To List COVID as Cause of Death Even if You're Just Assuming

    CDC Tells Hospitals To List COVID as Cause of Death Even if You're Just Assuming or It Only Contributed

    The problem with making informed decisions about coronavirus is that we don’t have a whole lot of data on it at the moment.

    The data that we do have, meanwhile, could end up being terminally skewed, particularly the data that’s been coming out of China.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s guidance on determining COVID-19 as a cause of death isn’t going to help those numbers.

    Issued March 24, the guidance tells hospitals to list COVID-19 as a cause of death regardless of whether or not there’s actual testing to confirm that’s the case.

    Instead, even if the coronavirus was just a contributing factor or if it’s “assumed to have caused or contributed to death,” it can be listed as the primary cause.

    The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, or ICD, has established the code U07.1 for death by coronavirus infection. There’s a secondary code, U07.2, “for clinical or epidemiological diagnosis of COVID-19 where a laboratory confirmation is inconclusive or not available,” according to the CDC guidance.

    “Because laboratory test results are not typically reported on death certificates in the U.S., NCHS is not planning to implement U07.2 for mortality statistics.”

    Therein lies the problem.

    “The underlying cause depends upon what and where conditions are reported on the death certificate. However, the rules for coding and selection of the underlying cause of death are expected to result in COVID- 19 being the underlying cause more often than not,” the guidelines read.

    “COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc.,” the guidance continued.

    “If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II.”

    Author and former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson, one of the few well-known figures to question some of the statistics on COVID-19, questioned the new CDC guidelines as well:

    1/ As you sit home watching #COVID death counts spiral, please know the official @CDCgov guidance for coding COVID-related deaths is as follows: any death where the disease “caused or is *assumed* to have caused or *contributed to* death.” Confirmed lab tests are not required..
    Earlier this week, President Donald Trump and members of his coronavirus task force announced that they were expecting a death toll of between 100,000 and 240,000 from coronavirus.

    In an article on Friday, The Washington Post said some experts didn’t think the White House’s prediction models were accurate. It wasn’t because those experts thought that figure was too high or too low: It’s just because they didn’t think there was enough data to determine a death range yet.

    “We don’t have a sense of what’s going on in the here and now, and we don’t know what people will do in the future,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist whose work was used by the White House to determine the death ranges, said.

    “We don’t know if the virus is seasonal, as well.”

    It doesn’t help that data when the guidelines for determining who’s actually died of the coronavirus are profoundly vague.

    For instance, what happens when an elderly person with numerous underlying conditions comes into the hospital and dies?

    What happens when someone suffering from late-stage cancer or liver failure dies in the hospital? If that person was in the final stages of life and no testing is done and no autopsy conducted, what are we to assume?

    If no testing is done and a patient’s symptoms are close enough to the seasonal flu, will that person’s death automatically be attributed to COVID-19? And how much of a difference would that make in the numbers, if any?

    The Western Journal has emailed the CDC for comment, but did not hear back in time for publication of this article.

    There’s no doubt that this guidance will inflate the numbers, the only question is how drastically.

    In places like New York City, where medical professionals are painfully overstretched, anyone who dies with an infection that’s vaguely COVID-19-like could potentially have COVID-19 listed as their cause of death.

    Consider, for instance, that the CDC is estimating there were between 24,000 and 63,000 deaths in the United States from influenza between October and March.

    In NYC, does that mean some of those deaths got lumped under COVID-19? Will this keep on happening?

    If so, that could skew the data in a significantly different direction — and it could influence the government’s intervention to stop the spread of the virus.

    This is a haphazard way to gather data at a time when that data needs to be more accurate than ever. We can and should do better than this.

    Source.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)



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  3. #2
    jfc
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3

  5. #4
    I had someone fact check me on this so I went straight to the order from the CDC.

    They say that without a test, if it is assumed to be COVID-19 related report it as such, and they will follow up later when test results are available and correct the data at that time.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    This isn't news they are only correlating people who get tested officially and die with it. That means there could be people who don't get tested and die from it too.
    The CDC ordered them to report them all as COVID-19 deaths. So the deaths will be inflated until they can be corrected.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The CDC ordered them to report them all as COVID-19 deaths. So the deaths will be inflated until they can be corrected.
    If they are positive. They are going to verify COD. Like for example if Kobe had it they would count him.

  8. #7
    It will not be a significant number. The characteristics are getting more solidly indentifiable. History, physical exam, imaging studies and labs are extremely reliable in suggesting who has the disease without confirmatory testing. Will many be counted that actually had another similar looking process? Sure, but overall, I don’t think it will be that much of a significant factor. I could be wrong. Hopefully they do postmortem testing to get more accurate results.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    It will not be a significant number. The characteristics are getting more solidly indentifiable. History, physical exam, imaging studies and labs are extremely reliable in suggesting who has the disease without confirmatory testing. Will many be counted that actually had another similar looking process? Sure, but overall, I don’t think it will be that much of a significant factor. I could be wrong. Hopefully they do postmortem testing to get more accurate results.
    this means they are separating the cause of death but are still trying to tabulate how many people have had it. This could make the number of infected individuals seem higher because they will be counted by that second code but that won't be the number of deaths by corona virus which is the original code. This could make death rates seem lower than they are.



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  11. #9
    Wait

    Is this whole thing bull sh it?
    I know people who are sick , I believe this is happening. but the reaction is looking like a well executed plan...a conspiracy fulfilling real time .

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  12. #10
    Cooking the numbers?

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
    Wait

    Is this whole thing bull sh it?
    I know people who are sick , I believe this is happening. but the reaction is looking like a well executed plan...a conspiracy fulfilling real time .
    No they just want to have the data for people who possibly have it based on medical diagnosis it's a separate code. They are putting that data into their other data to compile regions that are hit hardest so they can stock hospitals in places with larger amounts of sick people with supplies so there isn't a shortage, It's in 182 countries if this was a conspiracy a lot of people are keeping it secret.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    If they are positive. They are going to verify COD. Like for example if Kobe had it they would count him.
    Dayum. Ice cold humor.

  15. #13
    If the doctor thinks you died of Covid, but doesn't have a test available to verify it, the write it down as Covid.

    Not a big deal.

    There are plenty of forces the other way to limit testing and only count tested deaths as actual deaths.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't even a thing nor are capital gains taxes
    Constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    Cooking the numbers?
    Never let a crisis go to waste. We have to make this look really bad otherwise how will the CDC and MSM save face?

    I haven't checked the numbers myself, so I'll pose the question here for someone else who may know: I've been reading that official pneumonia and flu numbers are being driven way down under all of this. Similar to what China was doing, but opposite (I read China began marking Coronavirus related deaths to pneumonia and flu).

    And I say this as someone who doesn't think this is a hoax, but I think we know numbers will be "cooked" a little to inflate the impact given the world's response to this. After all, they're going to have to explain why they shut down people's jobs, killed so many livelihoods, etc.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  17. #15
    The number of cases will never be known. I have a first-hand account from my sister working in a NY hospital that if someone shows up with symptoms and doesn't have any other conditions, that person is turned away. So unless they're somehow counting them as COVID-19 cases without any testing at all, the death toll is already inflated.

    But here's an excellent vid from the other day that explains - along with individual cases as proof - that there is no formal definition for what a "coronavirus death" is to begin with, and in at least one case, someone very much alive and convalescing in his house was counted as a fatality.

    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  18. #16
    Okay
    so why aren't the cops who were breaking up these private gatherings wearing any protective equipment ?

    I think the danger is being leveraged. this is a power grab nothing else... using the disease as cover to do whatever the f*** they want to us... and it's great cover for the collapsed economy the real reason things are going the way they're going

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?



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  20. #17
    This is going to be the real story long after the media stops covering all of the nonsense. How grossly the numbers were inflated to maximize the effect, to maximize the hysteria, to maximize the cover for the media to pump the airwaves with this story 24/7. They are using every trick in the book to get as many causes of death listed simply as a covid-19 death. It would take more effort to not see the manipulation than to simply recognize they we are all being and will continue to be lied to. The lies are so transparent at this point, you have to wonder how desperate they really are to be pushing it this aggressively worldwide.

  21. #18

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The CDC ordered them to report them all as COVID-19 deaths. So the deaths will be inflated until they can be corrected.
    Seems like the hospitals would be more than willing to do so too.
    Trump Administration to Pay Hospitals to Treat Uninsured Coronavirus Patients

  23. #20
    This is so that they can force the vaccine on everyone. You do not take the vaccine, you cannot work and the pressure will be put on people because they shut down our economy for this.

    Just listen to someone who has figured it out.

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    This is so that they can force the vaccine on everyone. You do not take the vaccine, you cannot work and the pressure will be put on people because they shut down our economy for this.

    Just listen to someone who has figured it out.

    Bingo.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    This is going to be the real story long after the media stops covering all of the nonsense. How grossly the numbers were inflated to maximize the effect, to maximize the hysteria, to maximize the cover for the media to pump the airwaves with this story 24/7. They are using every trick in the book to get as many causes of death listed simply as a covid-19 death. It would take more effort to not see the manipulation than to simply recognize they we are all being and will continue to be lied to. The lies are so transparent at this point, you have to wonder how desperate they really are to be pushing it this aggressively worldwide.
    Eventually they'll have to be able to report a number ridiculously high enough to justify Bill Gates' vaccine and "vaccine identification tattoo", otherwise no one will go for it if the numbers are relatively low. It's all bs.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.

  26. #23
    In the past few days I have noticed a trend of the government and media starting to waffle and hedge. I'm seeing more statements and articles about how the estimates could have been too high, models weren't accurate etc.

    At the current rate, this is going to be on par with a normal bad flu season and no worse than the 2009-2010 swine flu.

    I think the end game media narrative is going to end up as "we won" by making the planet hide in their homes.

    If you read comments on mainstream media articles the trend is going toward the average person starting to question the government somewhat.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    In the past few days I have noticed a trend of the government and media starting to waffle and hedge. I'm seeing more statements and articles about how the estimates could have been too high, models weren't accurate etc.

    At the current rate, this is going to be on par with a normal bad flu season and no worse than the 2009-2010 swine flu.

    I think the end game media narrative is going to end up as "we won" by making the planet hide in their homes.

    If you read comments on mainstream media articles the trend is going toward the average person starting to question the government somewhat.
    It's always been Trump's plan to let people go back to church by Easter. Watch for the announcement sometime this week (with social distancing).
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)



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  29. #25
    Montana physician Dr. Annie Bukacek discusses how COVID 19 death certificates are being manipulated



    Dr. Bukacek is a longtime Montana physician with over 30 years’ experience practicing medicine and signing death certificates.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  30. #26
    so far,,One Fatal Head injury,, and a Smothered infant blamed on Covid.

    i too wonder how many other causes will be blamed on it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  31. #27

    Thumbs up Another massive Truth Bomb from Ron Paul

    From Ron Paul's weekly column:

    On March 24th, the CDC issued an alert stating that doctors should classify “probable COVID-19” or “likely COVID-19” as Covid-19 deaths. Perhaps that explains the seeming drop-off of pneumonia deaths this year and the simultaneous spike in Covid-19 deaths as some researchers have reported.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    so far,,One Fatal Head injury,, and a Smothered infant blamed on Covid.

    i too wonder how many other causes will be blamed on it.
    Relatively speaking, it will be an insignificant number (less than 5-15% I think). The majority of deaths are people with known disease on vents with all the classic findings on history, physical exam and more importantly imaging and lab work.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Relatively speaking, it will be an insignificant number (less than 5-15% I think). The majority of deaths are people with known disease on vents with all the classic findings on history, physical exam and more importantly imaging and lab work.
    The vast majority are being Kept alive already,,and the Cold just finishes them off,,
    Much of it is Medical Malpractice..Wrong Drugs.. and cross contamination..

    and Still far less than flu kills every year. They need to inflate the numbers to keep the panic going.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    The vast majority are being Kept alive already,,and the Cold just finishes them off,,
    Much of it is Medical Malpractice..Wrong Drugs.. and cross contamination..

    and Still far less than flu kills every year. They need to inflate the numbers to keep the panic going.

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