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Thread: Increased public hygiene as an alternative to social isolation - health stats and economics

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Places with high death tolls have high population density. You get it by breathing or touching infected surfaces. More hosts close to each other touching infected surfaces means more real estate and lots of chances for viral reproduction.

    In New York City, Chinese tourists represent the second-largest group of foreign travelers. (Visitors from Britain are No. 1.)

    Nationwide, China was the third-largest source of overseas visitors to the United States in 2018, according to the U.S. Travel Association. Among cities, New York was the top destination, followed by Los Angeles.
    Taiwan and South Korea both have very high population densities.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...es-by-density/

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #32



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  5. #33

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    floated.. here's Feb 4

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/n...virus-nyc.html

    Coronavirus in N.Y.: Without Chinese Tourists, Business Sags
    That article merely mentions a travel advisory and nobody in that article called Trump a racist even though that's the New York Times so fail on your part.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    What's the difference in density between New York and South Korea??
    What's the difference in density between South Korea and all of the countries below it in population density that aren't doing nearly as well in containing the virus? Seriously, your argument is retarded. I don't even think you have one. Places like Tennessee which have a much lower population density than South Korea have been shut down because of retarded federal recommendations and retarded people like you who defend them. Shut down New York? I don't care. I don't live there. Shut down most of the United States? That's just stupid. And you can go to hell for falsely implying I'm okay with more deaths just because I realize you are supporting stupid policies.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    That article merely mentions a travel advisory and nobody in that article called Trump a racist even though that's the New York Times so fail on your part.
    It's about people being bankrupted by lack of business from China due to Coronavirus. It says they get a huge amount of business from China. China was locked down and there was a 1 way travel restriction

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    What's the difference in density between South Korea and all of the countries below it in population density that aren't doing nearly as well in containing the virus? Seriously, your argument is retarded. I don't even think you have one. Places like Tennessee which have a much lower population density than South Korea have been shut down because of retarded federal recommendations and retarded people like you who defend them. Shut down New York? I don't care. I don't live there. Shut down most of the United States? That's just stupid. And you can go to hell for falsely implying I'm okay with more deaths just because I realize you are supporting stupid policies.
    Population density increases viral reproduction. They also have a really high health care index and do pretty good economically.

  10. #38
    The quality of South Korean healthcare has been ranked as being among the world's best. It had the OECD's highest colorectal cancer survival rate at 72.8%, significantly ahead of Denmark's 55.5% or the UK's 54.5%. It ranked second in cervical cancer survival rate at 76.8%, significantly ahead of Germany's 64.5% or the U.S. at 62.2%.[4] Hemorrhagic stroke 30 day in-hospital mortality per 100 hospital discharges was the OECD's third lowest at 13.7 deaths, which was almost twice as low as the U.S. at 22.3 or France's 24 deaths. For Ischemic stroke, it ranked second at 3.4 deaths, which was almost a third of Australia's 9.4 or Canada's 9.7 deaths. South Korean hospitals ranked 4th for MRI units per capita and 6th for CT scanners per capita in the OECD. It also had the OECD's second largest number of hospital beds per 1000 people at 9.56 beds, which was over triple that of Sweden's 2.71, Canada's 2.75, the UK's 2.95, or the U.S. at 3.05 beds.[5]

  11. #39
    When I go out I have been using a clean bandana saked in colloidal silver to cover my nose and mouth. . I spray my hands and face with it before entering a store and after I leave. My sister also does this when she goes out in public.
    I am keeping my autistic nephew and my brother who has been suffering with lymes disease at home.

    I live in one of the least populated areas of my state so as long as I stay around here I am not likely to be in a big crowd on any day at a store.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Places with high death tolls have high population density. You get it by breathing or touching infected surfaces. More hosts close to each other touching infected surfaces means more real estate and lots of chances for viral reproduction.

    In New York City, Chinese tourists represent the second-largest group of foreign travelers. (Visitors from Britain are No. 1.)

    Nationwide, China was the third-largest source of overseas visitors to the United States in 2018, according to the U.S. Travel Association. Among cities, New York was the top destination, followed by Los Angeles.
    That correlation does not hold true for Seol, South Korea or Tokio, Japan (3 times bigger than NY). South East Asians understand hygiene way better than NYers.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    The quality of South Korean healthcare has been ranked as being among the world's best. It had the OECD's highest colorectal cancer survival rate at 72.8%, significantly ahead of Denmark's 55.5% or the UK's 54.5%. It ranked second in cervical cancer survival rate at 76.8%, significantly ahead of Germany's 64.5% or the U.S. at 62.2%.[4] Hemorrhagic stroke 30 day in-hospital mortality per 100 hospital discharges was the OECD's third lowest at 13.7 deaths, which was almost twice as low as the U.S. at 22.3 or France's 24 deaths. For Ischemic stroke, it ranked second at 3.4 deaths, which was almost a third of Australia's 9.4 or Canada's 9.7 deaths. South Korean hospitals ranked 4th for MRI units per capita and 6th for CT scanners per capita in the OECD. It also had the OECD's second largest number of hospital beds per 1000 people at 9.56 beds, which was over triple that of Sweden's 2.71, Canada's 2.75, the UK's 2.95, or the U.S. at 3.05 beds.[5]
    How does the quality of a hospital or the per capity availability of beds change the rate of spread outside of the hospital? Argument is invalid.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Masks alone aren't effective. Its like shooting a crossbow if you don't practice good public health practices correctly in every manner you won't hit your mark. There is no close but no cigar. People don't know how to use the masks and gloves and face shields properly. You have doctors and nurses catching it. You think they don't have good public hygeine?
    Health care workers touch sick patients in closed rooms while the patients are not wearing masks.
    If you had read my entire post, you would have seen the point that masks are about the protection of the other person by stopping virally loaded spit and slime droplets that you are exhaling / emitting. That is why they only work if everybody wears them.
    Health care workers are much more exposed than the average person. And they are overworked.

  16. #43
    Added a TLDR to the OP for the speed readers:

    1. The data does not show a difference in the rate of spread between countries that have enacted draconian social distancing versus the countries that mostly just use face masks, gloves and frequent hand and surface cleaning/disinfection.
    2. It costs about 10 times less to equip an entire population with 3 masks, 3 pairs of gloves and a gallon of rubbing alcohol per day compared to a draconian lockdown.
    3. The cost of the protective equipment and cleaners is less than 5 dollars per day and person. Compare that to the 1200 dollars that the goverment is dumping on everyone and the 2+ trillion in corporate wellfare.
    Last edited by swissaustrian; 03-30-2020 at 05:33 AM.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Population density increases viral reproduction. They also have a really high health care index and do pretty good economically.
    Right. And South Korea has a higher population density than many other countries that have having worse outcomes. Also their large availability of masks and test kits is part of their health care system. In other words, you just admitted what the OP was saying without having the courage to admit you are wrong.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by swissaustrian View Post
    How does the quality of a hospital or the per capity availability of beds change the rate of spread outside of the hospital? Argument is invalid.
    I have yet to see @nikcers make a valid argument....as in ever....on any subject.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by swissaustrian View Post
    Added a TLDR to the OP for the speed readers:

    1. The data does not show a difference in the rate of spread between countries that have enacted draconian social distancing versus the countries that mostly just use face masks, gloves and frequent hand and surface cleaning/disinfection.
    2. It costs about 10 times less to equip an entire population with 3 masks, 3 pairs of gloves and a gallon of rubbing alcohol per day compared to a draconian lockdown.
    Exactly! And add to that a point 3.

    3. The $1,200 bribe for every American to keep people from rioting in the streets over the 2 trillion bailout while the economy is being shut down could itself pay for the 3 masks, 3 pairs of gloves and gallon of rubbing alcohol.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Exactly! And add to that a point 3.

    3. The $1,200 bribe for every American to keep people from rioting in the streets over the 2 trillion bailout while the economy is being shut down could itself pay for the 3 masks, 3 pairs of gloves and gallon of rubbing alcohol.
    great point! added

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I have yet to see @nikcers make a valid argument....as in ever....on any subject.
    You neg repped me and told me to lick a toilet seat because I asked how many deaths would be acceptable. You really are NASTY and a truly SICK individual. I bet you don't care if people die.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    You neg repped me and told me to lick a toilet seat because I asked how many deaths would be acceptable. You really are NASTY and a truly SICK individual. I bet you don't care if people die.
    Yep. I neg repped you because you are a truly evil and vile person. You are a fear mongering and pushing for the end of our constitutional republic. While I don't want anyone to die, even you, this forum and this country would be better off without people like you. So spare me your disgusting whining you piece of human filth. Some people are actually putting forward solid information like the OP which includes the fact that masks and other measures that individuals can take while maintaining personal liberty and economic viability work just as well as the draconian lock down which is leading us to martial law that you salivate for because of your authoritarian tendencies. I have no patience for the cowardice and the dishonest and you, sir, are both.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 03-30-2020 at 09:56 AM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    You neg repped me and told me to lick a toilet seat because I asked how many deaths would be acceptable. You really are NASTY and a truly SICK individual. I bet you don't care if people die.
    He neg repped you because you are debating instead of discussing. This shouldnt be about winning an argument at all costs, this should be about truth.
    The whole point of this thread was to show an alternative to the current measures that ultimately costs LESS lives.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by swissaustrian View Post
    He neg repped you because you are debating instead of discussing. This shouldnt be about winning an argument at all costs, this should be about truth.
    The whole point of this thread was to show an alternative to the current measures that ultimately costs LESS lives.
    You said it far more better than me! The reason I joined the Ron Paul movement is that in a time of great fear in this country he offered an alternative to the "war on terror" that, had it been followed, would have saved more lives and cost less money. He was attacked by vile people who gave him a "Why do you hate America" response to his rational ideas. This is no different. Our republic, our very freedoms, are under attack through a different kind of fear mongering. It's time for other voices to be heard.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Yep. I neg repped you because you are a truly evil and vile person. You are a fear mongering and pushing for the end of our constitutional republic. While I don't want anyone to die, even you, this forum and this country would be better off without people like you. So spare me your disgusting whining you piece of human filth. Some people are actually putting forward solid information like the OP which includes the fact that masks and other measures that individuals can take while maintaining personal liberty and economic viability work just as well as the draconian lock down which is leading us to martial law that you salivate for because of your authoritarian tendencies. I have no patience for the cowardice and the dishonest and you, sir, are both.
    You can't even debate the argument honestly. If we have a massive viral outbreak and people start evacuating areas like New York and coming to your town because they ran out of beds or masks and people die because we didn't have enough masks how many would be ok with you because it saved the paper money economy.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    You can't even debate the argument honestly. If we have a massive viral outbreak and people start evacuating areas like New York and coming to your town because they ran out of beds or masks and people die because we didn't have enough masks how many would be ok with you because it saved the paper money economy.
    You are the one lying jackass. I'm the one pushing for getting more masks. Instead of giving people $1,200, use the money to buy masks. They are available for purchase. I've been buying and distributing them myself, but I don't have the funds to buy enough to supply all of New York. You could help with the problem instead of being an a$$hole. I can buy masks for about $2.00 a piece that will be in from China in a couple of weeks. If I had enough to buy 5,000, I could get them at about $1 a piece. So do you want to be part of the solution? Or do you want to be an a$$hole? It's your choice. You can also start learning how to make masks. I joined a group that is making masks and supplying them to front line healthcare workers. I need to get a sewing machine. You can get one yourself and start helping. So, do you want to be an a$$hole or do you want to help? MIT has put out plans to make respirators that can be 3D printed for about $100. As soon as I save up enough money I am ordering my 3D printer. You could do that yourself. So, do you want to be an a$$hole or do you want to help? I'm betting that you're just going to be an a$$hole. But you could prove me wrong.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You are the one lying jackass. I'm the one pushing for getting more masks. Instead of giving people $1,200, use the money to buy masks. They are available for purchase. I've been buying and distributing them myself, but I don't have the funds to buy enough to supply all of New York. You could help with the problem instead of being an a$$hole. I can buy masks for about $2.00 a piece that will be in from China in a couple of weeks. If I had enough to buy 5,000, I could get them at about $1 a piece. So do you want to be part of the solution? Or do you want to be an a$$hole? It's your choice. You can also start learning how to make masks. I joined a group that is making masks and supplying them to front line healthcare workers. I need to get a sewing machine. You can get one yourself and start helping. So, do you want to be an a$$hole or do you want to help? MIT has put out plans to make respirators that can be 3D printed for about $100. As soon as I save up enough money I am ordering my 3D printer. You could do that yourself. So, do you want to be an a$$hole or do you want to help? I'm betting that you're just going to be an a$$hole. But you could prove me wrong.
    There was too much regulation and a shortage of stock due to government mismanagement. Even Taiwan has quarantined people inside of a hotel. should we of let people get evicted and not helped with rents after shutting down cities for a month? We are just now getting masks to healthcare workers who couldn't get them

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    There was too much regulation and a shortage of stock due to government mismanagement. Even Taiwan has quarantined people inside of a hotel. should we of let people get evicted and not helped with rents after shutting down cities for a month? We are just now getting masks to healthcare workers who couldn't get them
    I just told you what you can do right now! You can help make masks or you can order more supplies of masks. I'm actually getting masks to healthcare workers. WTF are you doing? Serious question. WTF are you doing?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I just told you what you can do right now! You can help make masks or you can order more supplies of masks. I'm actually getting masks to healthcare workers. WTF are you doing? Serious question. WTF are you doing?
    Im buying them up everywhere and burning them.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Im buying them up everywhere and burning them.
    Trounced so completely you turned to irony.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I just told you what you can do right now! You can help make masks or you can order more supplies of masks. I'm actually getting masks to healthcare workers. WTF are you doing? Serious question. WTF are you doing?
    He's on a message board edumicating all of us.

    There is,as a matter of fact, ample evidence that it was masks and hygiene that are the key factors in how SK and Japan and other Asian nations have done so well with this outbreak.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever..... just like Trump said.



    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

    Fascism Defined

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Trounced so completely you turned to irony.
    What do you mean I'm not mass producing cotton swabs for Corona virus that meet federal regulations so I don't care if people die? Gotta save the paper economy I guess.

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