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Thread: Bailout “needs to be in the $6 trillion range”

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Where are the Feds getting 6 trillion from?
    Where did they get the last 700 billion ? Same place . At the gettin' store .



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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You have gone off the deep end.
    he said he has always been in the deep end



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    So UBI and business loans.

    Nothing included for liquidity? QE?
    $2 trillion UBI and assorted business expenses

    $4 trillion that Treasury could have at discretion to do loans

    QE isn't an expense or part of the bill.

  6. #34
    No offense OP, but didn't you admit that you played this crash badly and your stocks are in the toilet now? I imagine a $6t stimulus would boost your stock portfolio enough in the short term to maybe dump them off on someone else. Sounds like you're talkin' your book a bit here...
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    $2 trillion UBI and assorted business expenses

    $4 trillion that Treasury could have at discretion to do loans

    QE isn't an expense or part of the bill.
    So the Fed buying commercial paper of any term and other non-Treasury assets is not part of this $6 trillion? Or is that part of the discretionary $4 trillion?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    So the Fed buying commercial paper of any term and other non-Treasury assets is not part of this $6 trillion? Or is that part of the discretionary $4 trillion?
    The Fed doing anything other than loans is separate.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    The Fed doing anything other than loans is separate.
    Wow. That’s a lot of money creation. $6 trillion government spending, much of it created by the Fed and loaned to the government, and unlimited ability for the Fed to create money and purchase whatever they want to.

    So this is really about supply and demand, buying and selling. The bailouts simply being government or the Fed buying things that can not currently be sold, or not sold for the price that the seller wants. Essentially government price fixing.

    In light of this, now the direct payments to the people (and UBI) make more sense. There is labor that can not currently be sold. Thus this is a clumsy way to pay for that labor in bulk, even if nothing is actually produced, and it’s a flat fee regardless of what type of labor that person usually provides.

    Now for stocks markets, securities, short term paper, bonds, etc. We have loss of liquidity, which is essentially no buyers at current prices. But average people are not heavily involved in trading right now. As a matter of fact, normal investors being managed by the big money managers (BofA, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, actively managed mutual funds, etc.) are slowly buying into the stock market.

    So who needs to sell? Ah, the big players in the Casino. Leveraged people, people who need to raise money fast due to margin calls, covering shorts, etc.

    So essentially this is a call for government to make purchases to ensure that Wall St. gamblers can pay off their bets without any losses. This is why people rebelled at TARP. Troubled assets indeed.

    No price discover, no supply and demand, no free and competitive markets. It’s a call for price fixing, above and beyond the problems caused by massive monetary creation.

    Sure, the Fed might buy an asset today that can’t be sold (at an inflated price), and in the future might be able to sell it for the same price, or even more. But they might have to take a total loss too. Some assets become worthless, especially loans to bankrupt companies (commercial paper).

    I’m going to have to go out on a limb and say that this centrally controlled market and price fixing leads to a huge moral hazard, not to mention that centrally planned markets tend to fail. Top that off with monetary inflation that could lead to hyperinflation. It’s playing with fire.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    You can't print your way into prosperity but you sure can print your way out of depression. See 2008-2009. No hyperinflation. Worked quite well.
    I am still amazed that it worked as well as it did . Now we will see if it will work another time if Pelosi OK's it . The senate is powerless . The choice they will get is yes or no on a Pelosi staff written 125 page bill only they have read.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I’m going to have to go out on a limb and say that this centrally controlled market and price fixing leads to a huge moral hazard, not to mention that centrally planned markets tend to fail. Top that off with monetary inflation that could lead to hyperinflation. It’s playing with fire.
    There is moral hazard but businesses are going to behave better no matter what after this. 2008-09 scared banks and they have been much less eager to lend. The question is what is the alternative? The damage from this could take years to unravel if massive action is taken. There aren't enough GoFundMe's to help everyone out.


    My view on the Fed matches Scott Sumner's, who is the most notable Friedmanite economist. https://www.themoneyillusion.com/goo...ever-it-takes/

    And Bullard at the Fed probably has the right idea about plugging the leak. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2190FT

    These are just my opinions (which counts for nothing), but I do know that playing fire and having Great Depression II isn't something I want to get anywhere near. The Great Depression wasn't just some accident from tariffs or income inequality or spending too much or whatever nonsense reason. It came about from mass bankruptcy that spiraled out of control.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 03-23-2020 at 08:19 PM.

  12. #40
    I thought Zippy was banned?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    There is no way the Feds can print or borrow 6 trillion... Get real.
    Could be a good thing for BTC holders..

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I thought Zippy was banned?
    Zippy was a left wing troll who was contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

    My view on this differs from Ron Paul's and everyone in the forum but I believe the evidence from 1929 and 2008 supports my view.

  16. #43
    Weird that we're talking about bailouts when bail-ins were legalized not long ago. Diversion perhaps? Bank branches have shut down the front doors.... hmm

    Pull cash now.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.

  17. #44
    Larry Kudlow obviously reading my Ron Paul Forums posts.


  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Larry Kudlow obviously reading my Ron Paul Forums posts.

    Kudlow? Bubble boy? Goldilocks economy? That’s like saying that Bill Kristol agrees with you.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Kudlow? Bubble boy? Goldilocks economy? That’s like saying that Bill Kristol agrees with you.

    Larry's a big gold standard guy. You should love him. Thinks the Fed has no power to do anything for the economy. Tax cuts answer to everything.

    I, on the other hand, have thought he was a boob and posted about it going back to when Rand hired Steve Moore (part of the Kudlow, Laffer, Moore team) to write his tax plan.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Kudlow? Bubble boy? Goldilocks economy? That’s like saying that Bill Kristol agrees with you.
    @Krugminator2 thinks you can borrow and print $6 trillion with no negative consequences for the purchasing power of the dollar or inflation. He is of course dead wrong (not for the first time... he even admits it). I still struggle to think why he's on RonPaulForums when he rejects Ron's common sense economics.

  21. #48
    Seriously. The cynical among us say that we are a socialist nation. Really we have corporatism.

    I have heard socialist say that we have capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich. They are right.

    At this point if we force ALL businesses to shut down for a month or two, the only businesses that will survive are $#@!ing McDonald's and $#@!ing Burger goddamn $#@!ing King. And they and Walmart will get a $#@!ing trillion dollars bailout, not your mom and pop shop!!!

    I hate to say it but the way it has been rigged the little guy needs the bail out, not Warren $#@!ing Buffet.

    Yeah, I am pissed. Look at my posting record before you call me a socialist, but my family run business is $#@!ed! All you bragging about how this shut down is a beautiful vacation, obviously don't have a family to support while you are forced to not work! Yeah, this country is $#@!ed!
    Last edited by RJB; 03-24-2020 at 08:30 PM.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    All you bragging about how this shut down is a beautiful vacation, obviously don't have a family to support while you are forced to not work! Yeah, this country is $#@!ed!
    Not enjoying your Trump day off? Would you prefer Corona virus??

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Not enjoying your Trump day off? Would you prefer Corona virus??
    I want to feed my family! The virus doesn't scare me. We will all be exposed to it in the next year whether we like it or not.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    I want to feed my family! The virus doesn't scare me. We will all be exposed to it in the next year whether we like it or not.
    They aren't goinvg to run out of food. You have to know not everyone can get sick at the same time. Most families can't even take $#@!s at the same time.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    They aren't goinvg to run out of food. You have to know not everyone can get sick at the same time. Most families can't even take $#@!s at the same time.
    So what are you trying to say?

  27. #53

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    It would be tremendously bad if you had diarrhea and all the bathrooms were occupied
    The corona virus doesn't cause diarrhea.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    It would be tremendously bad if you had diarrhea and all the bathrooms were occupied
    It usually doesn't cause death, for that matter.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    The corona virus doesn't cause diarrhea.
    When all of the beds are full of boomers on government funded Healthcare and your family has someone who has appendicitis- You can open them up with a knife and remove it right?



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    When all of the beds are full of boomers on government funded Healthcare and your family has someone who has appendicitis- You can open them up with a knife and remove it right?
    Yeah, like that is a worry. I haven't been to a medical doctor, since my final physical when I was discharged from the Marine Corps in '95. I probably won't see another one until he signs my death certificate 40 years from now.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Yeah, like that is a worry. I haven't been to a medical doctor, since my final physical when I was discharged from the Marine Corps in '95. I probably won't see another one until he signs my death certificate 40 years from now.
    You are still not more important than everyone else who needs health care. You never know when someone you know will need it. Im sure Rand Paul didn't think he needed a hospital on the day he was mowing his lawn.

  34. #59
    Alright, so back to the topic: McDonald's, Walmart, etc. will get a bailout, but what will happen to that mom and pop restaurant/store/etc. down the street that was forced to close se for a month?

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    You are still not more important than everyone else who needs health care. You never know when someone you know will need it. Im sure Rand Paul didn't think he needed a hospital on the day he was mowing his lawn.
    I am not talking about health care. Did you read a thing I posted, Chicken Little?

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