Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 89

Thread: Bailout “needs to be in the $6 trillion range”

  1. #1

    Bailout “needs to be in the $6 trillion range”

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Why is the bolded part anything to do with it? Of course he voted against the bill. It wasn't paid for.
    Doctor: You need to have immediate surgery. You have massive internal bleeding. You will die if we don't do this immediately.

    Economically illiterate patient: Well how much is surgery?

    Doctor: $150,000

    Economically illiterate patient: Well I don't have that much. I need to budget and figure out how to pay for it and will come back when I have the full amount paid for.

    Doctor: We'll figure that out later. YOU WILL DIE if you don't this right now.

    Economically illiterate patient: I am going to go home and think about it and start working on getting it paid for.


    There is no tomorrow if this doesn't happen now. Nothing else will matter. We are going to have a -25% GDP quarter and most of the country will get caught in the undertow. We can 25% unemployment. There is no dollar amount that doesn't make sense. Nothing in the world matters if we have a Great Depression. You might think you have infinite life because Jesus or something. Losing 10 years of life going through a depression isn't something most people more glued to this world think is a good idea.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 03-22-2020 at 02:49 PM.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Doctor: You need to have immediate surgery. You have massive internal bleeding. You will die if we don't do this immediately.

    Economically illiterate patient: Well how much is surgery?

    Doctor: $150,000

    Economically illiterate patient: Well I don't have that much. I need to budget and figure out how to pay for it and will come back when I have the full amount paid for.

    Doctor: We'll figure that out later. YOU WILL DIE if you don't this right now.

    Economically illiterate patient: I am going to go home and think about it and start working on getting it paid for.
    Rand and his family have insurance,

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Doctor: You need to have immediate surgery. You have massive internal bleeding. You will die if we don't do this immediately.

    Economically illiterate patient: Well how much is surgery?

    Doctor: $150,000

    Economically illiterate patient: Well I don't have that much. I need to budget and figure out how to pay for it and will come back when I have the full amount paid for.

    Doctor: We'll figure that out later. YOU WILL DIE if you don't this right now.

    Economically illiterate patient: I am going to go home and think about it and start working on getting it paid for.
    But we do have $150,000, it's just tied up in war spending.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Doctor: You need to have immediate surgery. You have massive internal bleeding. You will die if we don't do this immediately.

    Economically illiterate patient: Well how much is surgery?

    Doctor: $150,000

    Economically illiterate patient: Well I don't have that much. I need to budget and figure out how to pay for it and will come back when I have the full amount paid for.

    Doctor: We'll figure that out later. YOU WILL DIE if you don't this right now.

    Economically illiterate patient: I am going to go home and think about it and start working on getting it paid for.
    He wrote a bill to do all that and cut Afghanistan Quagmire spending by that amount.

    You don't think that would be better for a struggling national economy in a world growing skeptical of U.S. bonds?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    But we do have $150,000, it's just tied up in war spending.

    The bill needs to be in the $6 trillion range. (Though most will be repaid.) The entire Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not $6 trillion, let alone the little we spend on them now relative to what needs to happen.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    The bill needs to be in the $6 trillion range. (Though most will be repaid.) The entire Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not $6 trillion, let alone the little we spend on them now relative to what needs to happen.
    Where are the Feds getting 6 trillion from?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Where are the Feds getting 6 trillion from?

    Borrow and print. That is what is needed. It isn't optional. Either they do or we have lost years of life in Great Depression II.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Borrow and print. That is what is needed. It isn't optional. Either they do or we have lost years of life in Great Depression II.
    If printing and borrowing worked then Zimbabwe would be an economic powerhouse.

    There is no such thing as 'free' money .



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    If printing and borrowing worked then Zimbabwe would be an economic powerhouse.

    There is no such thing as 'free' money .

    Who said it was free? It will come at the expense of future growth. But that is preferable to doing nothing and having no growth until 2030.

    No first world capitalist country has ever had hyperinflation in peacetime through money printing. Japan has run deficits bigger than this onetime deficit for decades.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Who said it was free? It will come at the expense of future growth. But that is preferable to doing nothing and having no growth until 2030.

    No first world capitalist country has ever had hyperinflation in peacetime through money printing. Japan has run deficits bigger than this onetime deficit for decades.
    There is no way the Feds can print or borrow 6 trillion... Get real.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Doctor: You need to have immediate surgery. You have massive internal bleeding. You will die if we don't do this immediately.

    Economically illiterate patient: Well how much is surgery?

    Doctor: $150,000

    Economically illiterate patient: Well I don't have that much. I need to budget and figure out how to pay for it and will come back when I have the full amount paid for.

    Doctor: We'll figure that out later. YOU WILL DIE if you don't this right now.

    Economically illiterate patient: I am going to go home and think about it and start working on getting it paid for.


    There is no tomorrow if this doesn't happen now. Nothing else will matter. We are going to have a -25% GDP quarter and most of the country will get caught in the undertow. We can 25% unemployment. There is no dollar amount that doesn't make sense. Nothing in the world matters if we have a Great Depression. You might think you have infinite life because Jesus or something. Losing 10 years of life going through a depression isn't something most people more glued to this world think is a good idea.
    Nice dishonest analogy. Rand didn't say "Don't have the surgery until we find out how to pay for it." He put in his amendment how to pay for it. And the bill passed anyway.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Nice dishonest analogy. Rand didn't say "Don't have the surgery until we find out how to pay for it." He put in his amendment how to pay for it. And the bill passed anyway.
    It hasn't been voted on yet. And Rand just said on Twitter he wouldn't vote it. Called it a monstrosity.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    The bill needs to be in the $6 trillion range. (Though most will be repaid.) The entire Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not $6 trillion, let alone the little we spend on them now relative to what needs to happen.
    Remind us again which issues upon which you agree with Ron Paul?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    There is no way the Feds can print or borrow 6 trillion... Get real.
    Of course they could. The current total debt is $23 trillion and unfunded liabilities are much larger. This will only increase the debt by a trillion. Most the $6 trillion would be short term loans which the government will make a little money on just like TARP, which worked.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Remind us again which issues upon which you agree with Ron Paul?
    Everything but macroeconomic stuff. I have never changed since 2014, when I joined the forum. Nothing I am saying is new. I have always been a Milton Friedman guy. No doubt in my mind what St. Milton would do right now.

    I am only pounding the table because it is maddening watching people like Rand (who I have always been the a big butt kisser and defender of) not realize the enormity of this situation.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Of course they could. The current total debt is $23 trillion and unfunded liabilities are much larger. This will only increase the debt by a trillion. Most the $6 trillion would be short term loans which the government will make a little money on just like TARP, which worked.
    Err no. It would hurt the dollar & the markets. You can't print your way to prosperity.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Err no. It would hurt the dollar & the markets. You can't print your way to prosperity.
    You can't print your way into prosperity but you sure can print your way out of depression. See 2008-2009. No hyperinflation. Worked quite well.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Err no. It would hurt the dollar & the markets. You can't print your way to prosperity.
    The value of the economic power of the dollar only increases when none essential economic activity is suspended.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    You can't print your way into prosperity but you sure can print your way out of depression. See 2008-2009. No hyperinflation. Worked quite well.
    No it did not work. Otherwise the Fed would have increased rates and reduced the liabilities on their balance sheet which they didn't. They just delayed the crisis until today!

    Have you not learned anything?

    The can was kicked down the road.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    No it did not work. Otherwise the Fed would have increased rates and reduced the liabilities on their balance sheet which they didn't. They just delayed the crisis until today!

    Have you not learned anything?

    The can was kicked down the road.

    That crisis has nothing directly to do with this crisis. The banks right now are in pretty good shape.

    This is a corporate debt crisis. That has nothing directly to do with the Fed.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    ... See 2008-2009. ... Worked quite well.
    The chickens from 2008 are still on their way home to roost. The Fed is trapped in a ZIRP twilight zone while zombie companies continue to eat brains long after they should have died and asset bubbles (equities markets especially) still have room to unwind (ie. crash). To "fix" this, the Fed is going to need to double or triple their $4.7T balance sheet. I don't expect the current world order (global monetary system with petrodollar reserve currency) will survive this. YMMV.
    I compiled a "brief" history of events since October 2008 that are defining the global currency war and the role that gold is playing:

    Tin Foil Hats, Economic Reality and the Total Perspective Vortex

    Also, have you contacted your Congressional Rep and asked them co-sponsor Ron Paul's Rep. Paul Broun Jr.'s HR 1098 77: Free Competition in Currencies Act?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    That crisis has nothing directly to do with this crisis. The banks right now are in pretty good shape.

    This is a corporate debt crisis. That has nothing directly to do with the Fed.
    The banks are not in pretty good shape. Many of their stock prices fell 40-50%.

    More debt will not fix the problem it will only make it worse like what happened in 08'.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    That crisis has nothing directly to do with this crisis. The banks right now are in pretty good shape.

    This is a corporate debt crisis. That has nothing directly to do with the Fed.
    Trillion dollar a day authorization for the repo market, reserve requirement cut to 0, limits on cash withdrawals, spiraling stock prices and an impending bailout.

    What could possibly cause you to think they are in good shape?

    They are bankrupt.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    The bill needs to be in the $6 trillion range. (Though most will be repaid.) The entire Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not $6 trillion, let alone the little we spend on them now relative to what needs to happen.
    You have gone off the deep end.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Everything but macroeconomic stuff. I have never changed since 2014, when I joined the forum. Nothing I am saying is new. I have always been a Milton Friedman guy. No doubt in my mind what St. Milton would do right now.

    I am only pounding the table because it is maddening watching people like Rand (who I have always been the a big butt kisser and defender of) not realize the enormity of this situation.
    What is the enormity of the situation?

    There have been about 220,000 verified cases of the flu in the US and about 22,000 deaths this last year. That is a 10% death rate based on known cases. However, they estimate that only 1 in 161 people who get the flu end up being tested, most just stay home and take flu medications. So that brings the fatality rate to about .1%.

    If we used those same numbers, the fatality rate for COVID-19 is about .05%, which is about half of the flu.

    Now, more people are demanding to get tested for this because it's scary and we don't know a lot about it and it's all over the media.. but on the other hand, testing supplies have been very limited. They aren't testing people unless they have serious symptoms or have pretty bad symptoms and are old or have underlying conditions.

    So the fact is we don't even really know the fatality rate, but it could possibly be less than the flu.

    What evidence do you have that this is a $6 trillion situation?

    Even if you are right and it is pretty bad, they already have tested cheap and effective meds against it.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Doctor: You need to have immediate surgery. You have massive internal bleeding. You will die if we don't do this immediately.

    Economically illiterate patient: Well how much is surgery?

    Doctor: $150,000

    Economically illiterate patient: Well I don't have that much. I need to budget and figure out how to pay for it and will come back when I have the full amount paid for.

    Doctor: We'll figure that out later. YOU WILL DIE if you don't this right now.

    Economically illiterate patient: I am going to go home and think about it and start working on getting it paid for.


    There is no tomorrow if this doesn't happen now. Nothing else will matter. We are going to have a -25% GDP quarter and most of the country will get caught in the undertow. We can 25% unemployment. There is no dollar amount that doesn't make sense. Nothing in the world matters if we have a Great Depression. You might think you have infinite life because Jesus or something. Losing 10 years of life going through a depression isn't something most people more glued to this world think is a good idea.
    The only cause of this Great Depression II will be government (and media) overreacting (and unconstitutionally reacting) to a virus that may end up having a similar death rate as influenza.
    Last edited by JJ2; 03-22-2020 at 04:35 PM.

  31. #27
    Guys this stimulus and drastic measures doesn't need to go ANY further at least not in the interim. We have chloroquine which does wonders on apparently 100% of patients tested thus far.

    Its ok that Trump is activating some laws that were already on the books as a backup measure but none of the stimulus or the federal laws will even need to be used if this medication works for even a majority of people getting sick.
    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF :
    DNCIA-SB (Soros, Brennan)
    CLINTON-PELO-SCHIFF
    NYT-CNN-SOCIALIST
    DEEP STATE NEOCON JOHN BOLTON BOOK PROMOTER

    Know the deceptions of a paid troll HERE (Post #3)

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Everything but macroeconomic stuff. I have never changed since 2014, when I joined the forum. Nothing I am saying is new. I have always been a Milton Friedman guy. No doubt in my mind what St. Milton would do right now.

    I am only pounding the table because it is maddening watching people like Rand (who I have always been the a big butt kisser and defender of) not realize the enormity of this situation.
    If you throw out a macro number like $6 trillion, we need to know where it’s going.

    What would this money be spent on, specifically?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    If you throw out a macro number like $6 trillion, we need to know where it’s going.

    What would this money be spent on, specifically?
    -30% GDP this quarter which is the number from Goldman Sachs. Other sources 20-25% range. On a $20 trillion economy that would equate to plugging a leak in income of $1.5-$2 million which is what the bill is. That would be the UBI and the different corporate loans. The $4 trillion was Mnuchin's number that could be used as short term loans to help smaller businesses meet payroll and not default.

    The number is misleading though. Only the UBI will add to debt. TARP had an expensive looking price tag but the government made money on it.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 03-23-2020 at 01:47 PM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    -30% GDP this quarter which is the number from Goldman Sachs. Other sources 20-25% range. On a $20 trillion economy that would equate to plugging a leak in income of $1.5-$2 million which is what the bill is. That would be the UBI and the different corporate loans. The $4 trillion was Mnuchin's number that could be used as short term loans to help smaller businesses meet payroll and not default.
    So UBI and business loans.

    Nothing included for liquidity? QE?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-05-2017, 09:04 PM
  2. Bailout costs hit $24 trillion
    By lynnf in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-21-2009, 01:01 PM
  3. Bailouts: NEW $1 Trillion Bailout Coming Soon...
    By clb09 in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-03-2009, 08:14 PM
  4. The Bailout Tab- now 1.2 Trillion
    By DrCap in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-22-2008, 06:44 AM
  5. $$ 1/2 Trillion Bailout
    By Pauls' Revere in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-20-2008, 02:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •