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Thread: Amash on the response to the virus

  1. #1

    Amash on the response to the virus

    https://twitter.com/user/status/1240331015832428546

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    Yes, give me money
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    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    https://twitter.com/user/status/1240331015832428546

    Guess we will tell from the responses to your posts those who are PURE libertarians that understand Austrian Economics and totally excoriate Justin, or those that simply suffer TDS and try to explain this away.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Guess we will tell from the responses to your posts those who are PURE libertarians that understand Austrian Economics and totally excoriate Justin, or those that simply suffer TDS and try to explain this away.
    I doubt any of them will post here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I doubt any of them will post here.
    No need.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ............



    He's talking about cash to people for living expenses, which is a small part of what's being done and will yet be done.

    He's not talking about bailouts, fiscal or monetary, which is the bulk of the impending avalanche.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    No need.
    Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0

    ............



    He's talking about cash to people for living expenses, which is a small part of what's being done and will yet be done.

    He's not talking about bailouts, fiscal or monetary, which is the bulk of the impending avalanche.
    Like that's big differencce.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7

    Question Republican Relapse - socialist episode

    Does this mean that Justin is on the socialist Trump train for now?



    This is crazy talk, like a REAL Republican.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    https://twitter.com/user/status/1240331015832428546

    Well the first and third sentences of that tweet were good. 66% is a D though.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  11. #9
    If government is ordering property owners to shut down their business, why shouldn't people be compensated?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    If government is ordering property owners to shut down their business, why shouldn't people be compensated?
    This.

    Libertarians say, they've already screwed the free market. The problem with that is it creates problems, and the government can't possibly anticipate all the problems they're creating.

    But hell. If they've already screwed the pooch anyway, print me off some of that lettuce. Why should Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Boeing get it all?

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-20-2020 at 05:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  13. #11
    Amash is HUNDRED times the politician than Donald J . Trump. Amash has the balls to tell the truth.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    This.

    Libertarians say, they've already screwed the free market. The problem with that is it creates problems, and the government can't possibly anticipate all the problems they're creating.

    But hell. If they've already screwed the pooch anyway, print me off some of that lettuce. Why should Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Boeing get it all?
    And right on time here come the purists explaining away Justin's desire to bring immediate cash relief to Americans.

    You sure didn't sound like this when Trump was talking about it.

    Hypocrites.
    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF is to troll:

    Nobody spends this much time copy & pasting the same recycled links, photos & talking points. Does anybody even know where this troll stands on any issue?

    7 years and 25k posts later, the forum still does nothing & members still think they're replying to real posts

    Know the deceptions of a paid troll HERE (Post #3)

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    And right on time here come the purists explaining away Justin's desire to bring immediate cash relief to Americans.

    You sure didn't sound like this when Trump was talking about it.

    Hypocrites.
    What the hell are you talking about?

    If you're going to call me a hypocrite, why don't you link to it? Otherwise people might think your imagination overly fertile. To the point of derangement, even.

  16. #14

    I'll Say It Again

    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    If government is ordering property owners to shut down their business, why shouldn't people be compensated?
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    This.

    Libertarians say, they've already screwed the free market. The problem with that is it creates problems, and the government can't possibly anticipate all the problems they're creating.

    But hell. If they've already screwed the pooch anyway, print me off some of that lettuce. Why should Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Boeing get it all?
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    And right on time here come the purists explaining away Justin's desire to bring immediate cash relief to Americans.

    You sure didn't sound like this when Trump was talking about it.

    Hypocrites.
    Justin Amash is wrong about his position for cash relief for Americans. In effect, yes, he's adopting a socialist solution for this crisis. It's socialist because it's allowing the federal government to create money from the Fed (causing inflation, which is a tax on goods and services), money which was not earned from production, and give it out arbitrarily to certain people, based on the whims of the federal government, not on the forces of the market.
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Justin Amash is wrong about his position for cash relief for Americans. In effect, yes, he's adopting a socialist solution for this crisis. It's socialist because it's allowing the federal government to create money from the Fed (causing inflation, which is a tax on goods and services), money which was not earned from production, and give it out arbitrarily to certain people, based on the whims of the federal government, not on the forces of the market.
    I agree. And I'll say it again: If the idiots are going to print like idiots no matter how idiotic a thing it is to do, better they should inject liquidity in the populace than directly into Lockheed Martin.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  18. #16

    Two Wrongs =/= _______

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I agree. And I'll say it again: If the idiots are going to print like idiots no matter how idiotic a thing it is to do, better they should inject liquidity in the populace than directly into Lockheed Martin.
    You don't believe in voting for the lesser of two evils, do you, acptulsa?
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?

    If you're going to call me a hypocrite, why don't you link to it? Otherwise people might think your imagination overly fertile. To the point of derangement, even.
    lmao...you can overly fertile all you want while I wait for you to come up with another one of those beautiful explanations.


    On the topic of potential stimulus plan, you called Trump a fascist. But when Amash called for "immediate cash relief", well THATS explainable.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Actually that makes him a fascist. Fascists reward incompetence (so long as they get their bribes campaign contributions). Communists just nationalize everything.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post

    But hell. If they've already screwed the pooch anyway, print me off some of that lettuce.
    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF is to troll:

    Nobody spends this much time copy & pasting the same recycled links, photos & talking points. Does anybody even know where this troll stands on any issue?

    7 years and 25k posts later, the forum still does nothing & members still think they're replying to real posts

    Know the deceptions of a paid troll HERE (Post #3)

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    You don't believe in voting for the lesser of two evils, do you, acptulsa?
    No, I don't. I even gave up long ago on voting for the lesser of two idiots.

    But as long as I'm outvoted, can I not voice support for the less idiotic of the two idiotic proposals under consideration without being called a hypocrite?

    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    lmao...you can overly fertile all you want while I wait for you to come up with another one of those beautiful explanations.


    On the topic of potential stimulus plan, you called Trump a fascist. But when Amash called for "immediate cash relief", well THATS explainable.
    Bailing out corporations is fascism. Bailing out taxpayers is not combining corporate and government power. Especially since not all corporations get bailed out, but all citizens under a certain income level do.

    Which looks like the lesser evil to you?

    If I'm neither calling for picking corporate winners and losers, nor for nationalizing everything, but merely for an unscheduled tax refund, how am I a hypocrite again?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-22-2020 at 08:34 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    You don't believe in voting for the lesser of two evils, do you, acptulsa?
    Only if the lesser of two evils is Justin Amash calling for immediate cash relief simultaneously with Trump.
    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF is to troll:

    Nobody spends this much time copy & pasting the same recycled links, photos & talking points. Does anybody even know where this troll stands on any issue?

    7 years and 25k posts later, the forum still does nothing & members still think they're replying to real posts

    Know the deceptions of a paid troll HERE (Post #3)

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    But as long as I'm outvoted, can I not voice support for the less idiotic of the two idiotic proposals under consideration without being called a hypocrite?
    Do you go to a special school?

    Did Amash even make a proposal? All he said was "immediate cash relief" and you immediately defended it with no question by scrapping the bottom of the barrel saying the system is fkd anyways so might as well.

    That doesn't seem like a well thought out defense of a plan you have no idea is about.
    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF is to troll:

    Nobody spends this much time copy & pasting the same recycled links, photos & talking points. Does anybody even know where this troll stands on any issue?

    7 years and 25k posts later, the forum still does nothing & members still think they're replying to real posts

    Know the deceptions of a paid troll HERE (Post #3)

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Do you go to a special school?

    Did Amash even make a proposal? All he said was "immediate cash relief" and you immediately defended it with no question by scrapping the bottom of the barrel saying the system is fkd anyways so might as well.

    That doesn't seem like a well thought out defense of a plan you have no idea is about.
    No, actually I criticized it. In fact, I specifically said they're creating problems they can't anticipate. But you're ignoring that.

    Your TDS is causing you to seize on the "if they can't be stopped at least let them direct the welfare at someone who can't afford to bribe them" part and build me a whole political philosophy out of that straw.

    Screw that. I don't have to sit here and own what you build out of straw. I spoke English the first time. Read it again.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  25. #22

    Let's Go Back to the Root

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No, I don't. I even gave up long ago on voting for the lesser of two idiots.

    But as long as I'm outvoted, can I not voice support for the less idiotic of the two idiotic proposals under consideration without being called a hypocrite?
    There's more than two ways of solving this issue, though. Unfortunately, too many businesses have submitted to the decrees of the federal government by shutting down their places of employment, instead of resisting those decrees, on the basis that the federal government has no right to tell a business when it's not allowed to produce its own goods and services. The prerogative for closing a business due to medical concerns belongs to the business owner, not the federal nor state governments. They're at liberty to stay open and continue their normal business without a government giving them permission to do so.

    So, to bring this back full-circle to tebowlives' reply, no, businesses should not be compensated for closing their own places of employment because they have the right to say "No" to the federal government, in the first place. The federal government isn't God, and therefore, it has no right to order property owners to shut down their businesses. Period. That's their loss for complying with the federal government, to the detriment of their employees, customers, and shareholders by not continuing production and making profits.

    I wouldn't call you a hypocrite, but I will say that you're being inconsistent, acptulsa, if you agree with Amash while condemning Trump.
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    There's more than two ways of solving this issue, though. Unfortunately, too many businesses have submitted to the decrees of the federal government by shutting down their places of employment, instead of resisting those decrees, on the basis that the federal government has no right to tell a business when it's not allowed to produce its own goods and services. The prerogative for closing a business due to medical concerns belongs to the business owner, not the federal nor state governments. They're at liberty to stay open and continue their normal business without a government giving them permission to do so.

    So, to bring this back full-circle to tebowlives' reply, no, businesses should not be compensated for closing their own places of employment because they have the right to say "No" to the federal government, in the first place. The federal government isn't God, and therefore, it has no right to order property owners to shut down their businesses. Period. That's their loss for complying with the federal government, to the detriment of their employees, customers, and shareholders by not continuing production and making profits.

    I wouldn't call you a hypocrite, but I will say that you're being inconsistent, acptulsa, if you agree with Amash while condemning Trump.
    I can disagree that we must print the FRN into oblivion, but agree that doing to enrich corporate stockholders is more stupid, counterproductive and morally reprehensible than doing it to help citizens survive. At least the latter way, We, the People can use the free market for our dying "dollars" to pick the winners and losers ourselves for a little while.

    I can do that.

    I can even cheer on a Representative who's saying, "Print it, but give it to the people," not because I agree with him 100%, but because he's helping even idiots see how reprehensible their own "Representatives" truly are.

    In fact, I could go for a constitutional amendment right now. Change the name to the House of Reprehensibles.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-22-2020 at 09:00 PM.

  27. #24

    What's Being Sacrificed on the Altar?

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I can disagree that we must print the FRN into oblivion, but agree that doing to enrich corporate stockholders is more stupid, counterproductive and morally reprehensible than doing it to help citizens survive.

    I can do that.

    I can even cheer on a Representative who's saying, "Print it, but give it to the people," not because I agree with him 100%, but because he's helping even idiots see how reprehensible their own "Representatives" truly are.

    In fact, I could go for a constitutional amendment right now. Change the name to the House of Reprehensibles.
    What happens when more money is printed and circulated into an economy, acptulsa? We have to look deeper than this being "an unscheduled tax refund," as you put it. Surely, you can see that the very people for whom the money was printed and given to will be hurt from the effects of inflation which comes from printing more money, right?
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    What happens when more money is printed and circulated into an economy, acptulsa? We have to look deeper than this being "an unscheduled tax refund," as you put it. Surely, you can see that the very people for whom the money was printed and given to will be hurt from the effects of inflation which comes from printing more money, right?
    You know yer preachin' to the choir, right?

    And if Justin Amash proves to people that this corporate welfare is evil, and so are the politicians handing it out? Do we look that gift horse in the mouth?

    Do you want to know what hypocrisy is, @eleganz? It's criticizing people for disapproving of one guy's ham-handed lies on Twitter because they're "3D Chess (ģ)", then jumping down their throats when they find a better chess player.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-22-2020 at 09:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  30. #26

    No Justification

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You know yer preachin' to the choir, right?

    And if Justin Amash proves to people that this corporate welfare is evil, and so are the politicians handing it out? Do we look that gift horse in the mouth?
    I know where your convictions lie about the Federal Reserve, so, yes, I know I'm "preaching to the choir." It's to those convictions that I'm appealing, so you can understand that Americans still won't be helped by giving them cash relief, printed from thin air.

    Giving Americans cash relief (and even so, it won't be all Americans, which means the handouts will be given out based on governmental bias) just sets a precedent for...more cash relief. One-time handouts won't be enough, rest assured. Therefore, the only thing Amash will prove to the American people is that he supports socialism when he believes it's in their best interest, as all socialists normally do. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions," as the old saying goes.

    We need to condemn Amash's line of thinking, and call it out for what it is, no matter what his intent may be, however good it may be.
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Justin Amash is wrong about his position for cash relief for Americans. In effect, yes, he's adopting a socialist solution for this crisis. It's socialist because it's allowing the federal government to create money from the Fed (causing inflation, which is a tax on goods and services), money which was not earned from production, and give it out arbitrarily to certain people, based on the whims of the federal government, not on the forces of the market.
    Call it what you want. In an emergency government can shut down businesses and when they do they owe the property owner. I'm not trying to be mean but it's that simple. You can't ignore the fact that government has shut them down and say it's socialist.
    This is an actual emergency. General welfare and not specific

    And yes if it is given out arbitrarily it isn't good.
    Last edited by tebowlives; 03-22-2020 at 09:25 PM.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    We need to condemn Amash's line of thinking, and call it out for what it is, no matter what his intent may be, however good it may be.
    We also need to give Amash some credit. When people are buying the devil's own dogma, sometimes it helps one tear it apart to say, "Let's suppose your belief has merit. Wouldn't it lead to this more sensible thing? And if your leaders in your dogma aren't doing that, does that not mean your leaders don't believe what they preach?"

    Is Amash trolling Congress and the electorate? Yes, yes he is. Accidentally or on purpose, he's playing some actual, useful, helpful chess against the fascists.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-22-2020 at 09:27 PM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    If government is ordering property owners to shut down their business, why shouldn't people be compensated?
    shouldn't this be considered eminent domain?

  34. #30

    Says Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    Call it what you want. In an emergency government can shut down businesses and when they do they owe the property owner. I'm not trying to be mean but it's that simple. You can't ignore the fact that government has shut them down and say it's socialist.
    This is an actual emergency. General welfare and not specific

    And yes if it is given out arbitrarily it isn't good.
    Property owners also have the right to challenge the federal government on what constitutes an "emergency," especially if it affects their "bottom line." In any case, the responsibility to close business lies with the business owner, not the federal government, and because of that, business owners can refuse to comply, if they have better information or discernment that a shutdown is unnecessary.

    The fact that many states are designating certain businesses as "essential operations" reveals that property owners ought to have the freedom to remain open, of their own prerogative, without government interference. Private owners should decide whether their business is essential to the consumer, employees, and stakeholders, even in cases of public, medical concerns. And during such concerns, employees and customers have the liberty to decide if they want to work or buy/sell to those businesses. But the reality that businesses have to wait for a government entity to label them as "essential" in a crisis before they can continue their own business of their own capital and free will is the revelation that we're enslaved by the State.

    And that's my point. It is socialism in action by the fact that the federal government has arrogated to itself the authority to shut businesses down, at the behest of the federal government's own perception that a medical crisis exists, not of the property owner's discretion based on his or her own research, discernment, etc. It's not like federal governments don't lie about emergencies (false flags) and work their best to "never let a crisis go to waste." Private owners have the freedom to create their own "redress of grievances," too. But, no, we're seeing socialism rear its ugly head through the skin of a "national crisis," and even people like Justin Amash have to gaze in awe at it.
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

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