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Thread: Oil and Gas Industries Donít Want Coronavirus Bailout, Just Market Balance

  1. #1

    Exclamation Oil and Gas Industries Donít Want Coronavirus Bailout, Just Market Balance

    Oil and Gas Industries Donít Want Coronavirus Bailout, Just Market Balance

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WfTPSLkJ2M

    PENNY STARR 11 Mar 2020

    Despite media reports that President Donald Trump wants to bail out U.S. oil and natural gas companies after the coronavirus shook the international energy market, representatives from the industry said thatís not something they seek.

    CNBC called members of energy trade associations who met with White House staff on Wednesday to talk about how the coronavirus is affecting the market after oil prices dropped 24 percent on Monday and four percent ďlobbyists.Ē

    While the coronavirus is affecting all markets, the oil price plunge took place after negotiations between the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and Russia fell apart and the de facto OPEC head, Saudi Arabia, responded by slashing oil prices and said it would increase production.

    CNBC then reported that the oil industry isnít seeking a bailout, according to the American Petroleum Institute, the largest trade association representing the oil and natural gas industry:

    Still, the American Petroleum Institute, which represents companies including Halliburton, Hess and Occidental Petroleum, is not seeking federal aid, said the the spokeswoman, Bethany Aronhalt. That statement comes despite reports Tuesday indicating President Donald Trump was considering a federal aid package for the shale industry, potentially in the form of low-interest loans. An official told CNBC that the White House doesnít want the potential assistance to be perceived as a bailout.

    API CEO Mike Sommers told Bloomberg on Tuesday the groupís focus is on balancing the oil market.

    ďWhat we have here is a demand shock, of course, because of coronavirus, and a supply shock, because of the decision by Russia and the Saudis to flood the market with oil,Ē Sommers said. He went on:

    So, we are concerned about these geopolitical factors that are feeding into some downturn within the industry Ö right now, we trying to make sure policymakers are responding in the right way. But, ultimately, the solution here is to work in a diplomatic way to make sure oil markets are well-balanced.

    Weíre focused on making sure the free-market works, not on some government intervention that would be outside the market.

    The Department of Energy suspended the sale of crude oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which would have put more oil into the market, a move Sommers supports.

    ďWe want to make sure the government continues to make these kinds of decisions that are good for the oil industry,Ē Sommers said.

    Reuters reported that Russia wants to work with OPEC under certain conditions, according to Pavel Sorokin, Russiaís deputy energy minister:

    Sorokin said Russia was open to talking to OPEC again if the situation arises and was not engaging in a price war.

    Russiaís oil producers, [which] price their crude in dollars on world markets, would be sheltered by the dollar-rouble exchange rate.

    ďWe are not in a price war with anyone,Ē Sorokin said. ďWe are competitive. We watch the market and understand that such a situation will help the market to recover. High-cost projects will disappear.Ē
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler



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  3. #2
    Is war for oil considered a bailout?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    ďThey are what they hate.Ē - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    Again with the bailouts.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  5. #4
    Now would be a great time to fill the SPR to the brim.

    Tax cuts are also a good idea and so is a tariff on foreign oil that is being dumped on the market as economic warfare.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Is war for oil considered a bailout?
    I am not sure it can be since I never got any oil from the wars .

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am not sure it can be since I never got any oil from the wars .
    You probably don’t get anything from any government bailouts.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    ďThey are what they hate.Ē - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    You probably don’t get anything from any government bailouts.
    Not a thing .

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Oil and Gas Industries Donít Want Coronavirus Bailout, Just Market Balance



    Still, the American Petroleum Institute, which represents companies including Halliburton, Hess and Occidental Petroleum, is not seeking federal aid, said the the spokeswoman, Bethany Aronhalt. That statement comes despite reports Tuesday indicating President Donald Trump was considering a federal aid package for the shale industry, potentially in the form of low-interest loans. An official told CNBC that the White House doesnít want the potential assistance to be perceived as a market, a move Sommers supports.

    Shale industry, isnít that what all this anti fracking movement is trying to shut down??? Kinda goes against everything holy.
    "Nobody wins in a Dairy Challenge" ~ Kenny Rogers, RIP


    "When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease to be honest." ~ anonymous


    ďThe fate of all mankind I see
    Is in the hands of foolsĒ ~ King Crimson



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Now would be a great time to fill the SPR to the brim.

    Tax cuts are also a good idea and so is a tariff on foreign oil that is being dumped on the market as economic warfare.
    Oil Surges After Trump Orders DOE To Fill Up Strategic Petroleum Reserve

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10

    Protectionist, Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Now would be a great time to fill the SPR to the brim.

    Tax cuts are also a good idea and so is a tariff on foreign oil that is being dumped on the market as economic warfare.
    Explain to me how a tariff on foreign oil is as good as tax cuts.
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

  13. #11
    Why aren't Pump Prices reflecting the Cheap Oil??

    25$ a barrel should be under 2$ at the pump. historically.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Explain to me how a tariff on foreign oil is as good as tax cuts.
    When foreign governments interfere in the market with the intent of harming America it is the responsibility of the government to neutralize it.
    That's not protectionist, it's defensive.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    When foreign governments interfere in the market with the intent of harming America it is the responsibility of the government to neutralize it.
    That's not protectionist, it's defensive.
    This...

    Same with the open borders crowd. There are still government who respect the invisible lines drawn up on maps. Immigration can be used as a tool of war like Ron Paul had said. We are unfortunately not in a perfect world where governments have dissolved and we have a a true free market across the globe

  16. #14

    Protectionist, Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    When foreign governments interfere in the market with the intent of harming America it is the responsibility of the government to neutralize it.
    That's not protectionist, it's defensive.
    "Harming America."

    How?
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why aren't Pump Prices reflecting the Cheap Oil??

    25$ a barrel should be under 2$ at the pump. historically.
    My guess is that the US gov building up the Strategic Oil Reserve, is propping up high gas prices. IOW, gov market manipulation.

    Trump has announced a massive increase in the US strategic oil reserve. No problemo, just print more money.


    Socialism

    Trump Orders Department of Energy to Replenish U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve in Coronavirus

    Last edited by RonZeplin; 03-14-2020 at 10:08 AM. Reason: RPF thread linked
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    "Harming America."

    How?
    By shutting down American businesses, putting Americans out of work and making America more dependent on hostile foreign countries for our needs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why aren't Pump Prices reflecting the Cheap Oil??

    25$ a barrel should be under 2$ at the pump. historically.
    Saw it at $2.11 down the street from me, other places in NJ are down to $1.99.. so there you go.
    http://www.newjerseygasprices.com/

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Saw it at $2.11 down the street from me, other places in NJ are down to $1.99.. so there you go.
    $3.00 a gal.. with a change difference through the area. Washington State.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why aren't Pump Prices reflecting the Cheap Oil??

    25$ a barrel should be under 2$ at the pump. historically.
    Wholesale gasoline in .90 cents @ 31.50 oil . Here gas is 1.70 so about .80 over wholesale which is probably within 10 cents of the norm .

  23. #20
    Also remember that 1.70 I payed today includes three taxes that are percentages . In East & West coast states two of those taxes could be higher .

  24. #21
    When we had the Obama economy gasoline at 4.11 about a quarter of that price was taxes .

  25. #22
    Oyarde is ready and prepared for 1.00 gas , 1900 gold and a 15K Dow .

  26. #23

    Protectionist, Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    By shutting down American businesses, putting Americans out of work and making America more dependent on hostile foreign countries for our needs.
    Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?
    The Constitution give the government the right to conduct foreign affairs and regulate foreign trade.
    This is not a case of controlling the economy, it's a case of defending the free market from foreign government intervention.
    Scripture is not the issue here but it doesn't contain anything requiring us to let foreigners harm us.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?
    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

    One of the blessings of liberty is prosperity and property, which of course, leads to well paid employment.

    Sacrificing the prosperity of our posterity to foreign interests and agents is traitorous.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler

  30. #26

    Protectionist, Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Constitution give the government the right to conduct foreign affairs and regulate foreign trade.
    This is not a case of controlling the economy, it's a case of defending the free market from foreign government intervention.
    Scripture is not the issue here but it doesn't contain anything requiring us to let foreigners harm us.
    First of all, I asked where in the U.S. Constitution does it give the civil (in this case, federal) government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries within the States from industries without the States. That means I need some citations, please.

    Second of all, the moment the civil government has to come in to "defend the free market from foreign government intervention," you no longer have a free market. A free market, by definition, is without government intervention. You sound just like George W. Bush when he said that we have to suspend capitalism in order to save capitalism. That's not how it works, anymore than passing a bill in order to know what's in a bill.

    Last of all, I didn't ask where in Scripture does it allow foreigners to harm us; I asked where in the Holy Scriptures does it give civil magistrates the right to control an economy. Your assumption is that the civil magistrate is protecting us from foreigners whenever it manages the economy in some way (as in increasing tariffs), but that's just begging the question.
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

  31. #27

    The "Invisible Hand" Contains Stars & Stripes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

    One of the blessings of liberty is prosperity and property, which of course, leads to well paid employment.

    Sacrificing the prosperity of our posterity to foreign interests and agents is traitorous.
    I missed the part in the Preamble where it gives the federal government the right to control the free exchange of goods.
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Lowering interest rates punishes people for saving, thus encouraging consumers and businesses to spend every penny they make...The Federal Reserveís inflationary policies harm the average American by eroding the dollarís purchasing power." - Dr. Ron Paul

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    First of all, I asked where in the U.S. Constitution does it give the civil (in this case, federal) government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries within the States from industries without the States. That means I need some citations, please.
    It's not my job to run and fetch for you but I'll indulge you.

    A1 S8:
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;...

    ...To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations



    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Second of all, the moment the civil government has to come in to "defend the free market from foreign government intervention," you no longer have a free market. A free market, by definition, is without government intervention. You sound just like George W. Bush when he said that we have to suspend capitalism in order to save capitalism. That's not how it works, anymore than passing a bill in order to know what's in a bill.
    Bunk, that's like saying that the moment the army responds to an invasion you no longer have peace.
    The foreign government intervention puts an end to the free market and only domestic defense against that government intervention can restore it.
    You are the one turning things on their head and claiming that foreign government intervention is the free market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Last of all, I didn't ask where in Scripture does it allow foreigners to harm us; I asked where in the Holy Scriptures does it give civil magistrates the right to control an economy. Your assumption is that the civil magistrate is protecting us from foreigners whenever it manages the economy in some way (as in increasing tariffs), but that's just begging the question.
    Defending against foreign trade warfare is not controlling the economy, I am not assuming anything, I am discussing a case of foreign government intervention and calling for our government to neutralize it.

    You can keep pretending that foreign government intervention is the free market and that eliminating it so that the economy is free of government intervention is "controlling the economy" but it won't make it true.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    I missed the part in the Preamble where it gives the federal government the right to control the free exchange of goods.
    An international pandemic, which could very possibly turn out to be man-made falls under:

    provide for the common defense
    Or do you prefer Red Bill DiBlasio's plan to just nationalize everything?

    Course, what gives the FedGov the right is not in the preamble, but right here:

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:

    [The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations...
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 03-14-2020 at 10:44 PM.
    There are only two things we should fight for.
    One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. - Smedley Darlington Butler

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    Again with the bailouts.
    Did you or anyone else think it was about something else???
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

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