Where do you stand on Trump 4 years later?

[oyarde]

Vote LP and let them blame each other!

Bernie is horrible and so is Trump.

I am not even sure I can consider the LP to any longer be a legitimate party . I often voted for candidates in that party in the past but probably no longer . It is pretty much just an arm of the dem party being ran by sarwack.

[oyarde]

Trump has ben exactly what I expected . It is his to lose . This poll is running about Half and Half by the way about like the last five presidential elections and the next one .

[Cleaner44]

I am not even sure I can consider the LP to any longer be a legitimate party . I often voted for candidates in that party in the past but probably no longer . It is pretty much just an arm of the dem party being ran by sarwack.

Unfortunately the Libertarian Party has taken major steps backwards. They are far way from the days of Ron Paul and Harry Browne.

[donnay]

Unfortunately the Libertarian Party has taken major steps backwards. They are far way from the days of Ron Paul and Harry Browne.

Exactly.

[phill4paul]

I'm with Mike Rowe...

[donnay]

I'm with Mike Rowe...

I like the Lex Luthor look.

[Todd]

Lower Federal government spending - No
Bring the troops home - No
Audit the Fed - No

Vote for Trump - No

Drain the swamp (neocons, lifers in positions of power within the Deepstate, dismantle the MIC) - No


I don't know what people are smoking that believe this guy has changed anything of any substance. So he tweets and slams and disrespects the media and Democrats better than anyone else. So what?

[Cleaner44]

Drain the swamp (neocons, lifers in positions of power within the Deepstate, dismantle the MIC) - No


I don't know what people are smoking that believe this guy has changed anything of any substance. So he tweets and slams and disrespects the media and Democrats better than anyone else. So what?

Does this count as substance?

Trump Is Remaking the Federal Judiciary at a Historic Rate
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...e__142073.html

[Working Poor]

I think the 1at and 2nd amendments would have been taken out by now if Trump had not been elected.

[phill4paul]

Drain the swamp (neocons, lifers in positions of power within the Deepstate, dismantle the MIC) - No


I don't know what people are smoking that believe this guy has changed anything of any substance. So he tweets and slams and disrespects the media and Democrats better than anyone else. So what?

Nothing of substance? Two Supreme appointees that have changed the court. Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

SUPREME COURT
In 5-4 ruling, Supreme Court allows Trump plan to deny green cards to those who may need government aid

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...MMXSKmRoaV8HGs

[Todd]

Does this count as substance?

Trump Is Remaking the Federal Judiciary at a Historic Rate
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...e__142073.html

Not really and too early to tell. Come see me in 10 years and let me know if those appointments helped stave off any loss of liberty. I have zero faith in a legal system run by a class of people who make laws to benefit themselves and their buddies.

[Cleaner44]

Drain the swamp (neocons, lifers in positions of power within the Deepstate, dismantle the MIC) - No


I don't know what people are smoking that believe this guy has changed anything of any substance. So he tweets and slams and disrespects the media and Democrats better than anyone else. So what?

Does the elimination of the Obamacare individual mandate penalty count as substance?

[Todd]

Does the elimination of the Obamacare individual mandate penalty count as substance?

That's a good start. seems like a band aid to me. The mandate isn't the part of the law that is destroying and increasing health care costs.

[donnay]

Lifting the many restrictions/regulations that past Presidents placed on businesses and people is more liberty.

[phill4paul]

Not really and too early to tell. Come see me in 10 years and let me know if those appointments helped stave off any loss of liberty. I have zero faith in a legal system run by a class of people who make laws to benefit themselves and their buddies.

So denying admission to tax ticks, welfare whores, is a 'no go' for you? Gotta wait ten years?

[phill4paul]

That's a good start. seems like a band aid to me. The mandate isn't the part of the law that is destroying and increasing health care costs.

Does POTUS make the law? No. Congress does. But, good on a POTUS that can challenge it in a way that at least something is accomplished.

[Cleaner44]

That's a good start. seems like a band aid to me. The mandate isn't the part of the law that is destroying and increasing health care costs.

So you admit it counts as substance and then tear it down and minimize it. Do you see every glass as half empty or is this just something you do with Trump?

I can tell you that the Obamacare individual mandate penalty was costing me money every year and that is real money my family is able to keep. This has increased my individual liberty.

[Todd]

So denying admission to tax ticks, welfare whores, is a 'no go' for you? Gotta wait ten years?

I'm saying systemic changes of real substance take time. It doesn't magically change over night. 3 steps forward and 1 step back is not the type of change I'm interested in. In no way am I saying that ending certain programs is not a good thing. I've just seen it all before and it doesn't represent much except window dressing of the rotten structure. Give me the structural changes to the foundation.

[Todd]

So you admit it counts as substance and then tear it down and minimize it. Do you see every glass as half empty or is this just something you do with Trump?

I can tell you that the Obamacare individual mandate penalty was costing me money every year and that is real money my family is able to keep. This has increased my individual liberty.

See above. Kicking a field goal when your down 2 touchdowns may be good for you guys.

[Todd]

.

BTW. I would agree whole heartedly on your assessment of why Trump was better than Clinton. The best thing about him is his ability to freak out the media and progressives.

[phill4paul]

I'm saying systemic changes of real substance take time. It doesn't magically change over night. 3 steps forward and 1 step back is not the type of change I'm interested in. In no way am I saying that ending certain programs is not a good thing. I've just seen it all before and it doesn't represent much except window dressing of the rotten structure. Give me the structural changes to the foundation.

That would be wonderful if it could actually happen in that way. But, it can't. So, the millions of tiny slices that bleed us are being reverse. In increments. But, $#@! they are being reversed. At least some. And not all in a manner most relevant to us personally.
Ron Paul's call to bring the troops home on 'day one' was a great pipe dream. Because we now now that on day two he would have been impeached.
Take what you can get. For myself, I'll take Trump over any of the Dems. Anytime. Any day.

[donnay]

I love Dr. Paul but even he could not accomplish as much as Trump has done. As you can see Dr. Paul said, "we marched right in, we can march right out." is easier said than done when you are up against the warmongers in government.

[Anti Globalist]

I'm with Mike Rowe...

Is Trump even capable of growing a mustache and beard? His two oldest sons certainly are capable but I've never seen a picture or video of Trump with facial hair.

[Cleaner44]

See above. Kicking a field goal when your down 2 touchdowns may be good for you guys.

I still want to same things I wanted with Ron Paul back in 2007, but now I am looking at different approaches to achieve such goals. Our 2007-2012 approach didn't turn out as we hoped. I can't expect to get a different result doing the same thing. So what does the quest for more liberty look like going forward?

I start with 2 simple facts:
Democrats voters and politicians openly despise the Constitution.
Republican voters and politicians praise the Constitution.

Now Republicans don't actually adhere to the Constitution as much as we would like, but they certainly are much more friendly to the Constitution than Democrats.

Democrats = anti-Constitution
Republican = pro-Constitution

Cleaner44 = pro-Constitution

I see allies in the GOP. I see an opportunity to move the party toward the Constitution instead of away from it.

2008 and 2012 was the time to punish the GOP for nominating liberal Republicans. 2016 and 2020 are the time to punish the Democrats.

A field goal is better than turning it over on downs or throwing a pick six.

[Todd]

I still want to same things I wanted with Ron Paul back in 2007, but now I am looking at different approaches to achieve such goals..

Me too. And one of the major lessons I learned from that is that the system the Ron used to change things doesn't work.

What amazes me is how anyone could go through what we went through in 2008 and 2012 and come away doubling down on making the political "system" work to bring about any substantive change or "freedom".

As George Carlin said: It's a big club and you ain't in it.

Sorry, I just don't trust it anymore.

[Cleaner44]

Me too. And one of the major lessons I learned from that is that the system the Ron used to change things doesn't work.

What amazes me is how anyone could go through what we went through in 2008 and 2012 and come away doubling down on making the political "system" work to bring about any substantive change or "freedom".

As George Carlin said: It's a big club and you ain't in it.

Sorry, I just don't trust it anymore.

You shouldn't trust the system. It is an out of control monstrosity that is more inclined to infringe on your rights than anything else.

Meanwhile you can either disengage and not vote... or do what you can to influence the system to protect your rights as much as it is possible if at all.

Personally, watching liberal scream at the sky is enough to keep me engaged. It really is a fun time to watch liberals lose to Trump over and over. Your mileage may vary.

[Warlord]

I've said it once and i'll say it again it's time to give UP on presidential politics.

We need to focus on getting conservative senators and congressmen in office. This means supporting people for state tep and then helping them further down the line. Imagine 10 Rand Paul's in the U.S Senate. We could get stuff done!

[Anti Globalist]

A complete overthrow of our corrupt government or a civil war is the only way the country can be saved at this point. Unfortunately that will never happen since our society loves putting beta males on a pedestal while alpha males are looked down upon.

[Cleaner44]

I've said it once and i'll say it again it's time to give UP on presidential politics.

We need to focus on getting conservative senators and congressmen in office. This means supporting people for state tep and then helping them further down the line. Imagine 10 Rand Paul's in the U.S Senate. We could get stuff done!

In my opinion Trump has caused many Republican voters to love Rand and hate Mitt and McCain. That is a good result. Republican voters are fed up with RINOs and that is good for getting more conservative candidates.

[tfurrh]

In my opinion Trump has caused many Republican voters to love Rand and hate Mitt and McCain. That is a good result. Republican voters are fed up with RINOs and that is good for getting more conservative candidates.

They may be fed up with RINOs and the polished establishment candidates, but it will take a generation or two to weed out the Neocons. And that's ONLY if Trump stops beating the war drums. If he keeps on it'll only further cement our party in this ideology