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Thread: New Bill to Allow Cops to Detain Citizens, Force Them to Explain Who They Are, What They’re Do

  1. #1

    New Bill to Allow Cops to Detain Citizens, Force Them to Explain Who They Are, What They’re Do

    New Bill to Allow Cops to Detain Citizens, Force Them to Explain Who They Are, What They’re Doing


    Matt Agorist
    January 20, 2020


    Kentucky — An ominous bill that is currently making its way through the Kentucky Senate aims to give police unprecedented unconstitutional powers. These new powers will allow cops to stop anyone they want and demand that person tell them who they are, where they are going, and explain their actions. Naturally, it has civil rights advocates up in arms, but it doesn’t seem to be slowing down the bill’s momentum.

    Police merely need to make an unsubstantiated claim that a person is involved in criminal activity which gives them free reign to stop that person, demand his name, home address and age — as well as ask to see his driver’s license, if he has one — and tell him to explain what he is presently doing “to the satisfaction of the officer.”

    If you invoke your constitutional right not to answer the officer’s questions, this new bill grants cops the right to detain you for two hours. Even more ominous is the fact that this detainment is not considered an arrest so you have no right to an attorney and police don’t even have to record it. This non-arrest grey area detention will undoubtedly be rife for abuse.

    Nevertheless, advocates for the police state tyranny say cops must have this new ability—to keep us safe. As Kentucky.com reports, Sen. Stephen Meredith, R-Leitchfield, said Grayson County law enforcement officials asked him for the bill after a number of local incidents showed the need for it.

    “If a man acts suspicious, then why wouldn’t you want to know what his name is?” Meredith said in an interview. “I can’t imagine any legitimate reason in the world why a person would refuse to give their name and photo identification to a police officer if they were asked.”

    In other words, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear…or, in other words, submit to the police state. Wrong!

    Well Sen. Meredith, we’d like to educate you in why a person would refuse to talk to police—because it is our right not to! Legislation like this is straight out of the playbook of every tyranny in history. Remember “Ihre Papiere, Bitte”?


    That phrase often brought shudders to the people who heard it in the 1930s and ’40s. It is German for “Your papers, please”, and this bill is nearly identical to that sinister Nazi policy.

    Critics of the bill are pointing out its obvious unconstitutional nature and note out how cops can already go after people if they suspect them of committing a crime. As Kentucky.com reports:



    Critics say Meredith’s bill would violate the Fourth Amendment’s protection against unreasonable search and seizure and the Fifth Amendment’s protection against self-incrimination.

    Police officers already have the right to approach people on the street and ask their names, but it’s established that citizens can refuse to respond, said Aaron Tucek, a legal fellow at the ACLU of Kentucky. If police can show reasonable suspicion that someone is carrying a deadly weapon, they can proceed to frisk that person, Tucek said.

    But they cannot detain people simply for not identifying themselves or explaining their activities “to the satisfaction of the officer,” Tucek said.



    “The whole section of the bill on detention — they can call it whatever they want, but Supreme Court case law is pretty clear that an arrest is not determined by whether you call it an arrest, it’s determined by the restraint you place on someone’s liberty,” Tucek said. “If you put someone in the back of a police car or if you take them down to the police station or if you otherwise refuse to let them go their own way, that’s an arrest, and in our country, you cannot do that without probable cause.”

    We agree and so does the constitution.


    “The idea that we can detain people because we find them to be suspicious and we think they might commit a crime, that crosses a dangerous line,” Rebecca DiLoreto, who lobbies in Frankfort for the Kentucky Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said. “Now, unfortunately, it has been known to happen. Sometimes it’s in a mostly white community where someone spots a black person walking down the street and they get suspicious and call police.”

    “The ‘crime’ in this case is basically that you’re here and we don’t think, from looking at you, that you should be here,” she added. “The potential for abuse in that seems obvious.”

    DiLoreta also pointed out the menacing nature of cops being able to essentially kidnap anyone they want for hours and keep it off the record. Nobody ever should be taken into police custody without a record being made of it, she said.

    “That’s starting to approach what you see in a police state or Soviet Russia,” DiLoreta said.


    https://thefreethoughtproject.com/bi...owers-to-cops/
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  3. #2
    ...
    There she was just a walking
    Down the street singin'
    Do wah diddy diddy
    Dum diddy do
    Snapping her fingers
    And a shuffling her feet singin'
    Do wah diddy diddy
    Dum diddy do
    ...
    I compiled a "brief" history of events since October 2008 that are defining the global currency war and the role that gold is playing:

    Tin Foil Hats, Economic Reality and the Total Perspective Vortex

    Also, have you contacted your Congressional Rep and asked them co-sponsor Ron Paul's Rep. Paul Broun Jr.'s HR 1098 77: Free Competition in Currencies Act?

  4. #3
    Further Proof that the Nazis won WWII.. despite propaganda to the contrary.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Further Proof that the Nazis won WWII.. despite propaganda to the contrary.
    Its true, they just moved here and set up shop...


    but HEY we got to goto da M00n right?

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post


    but HEY we got to goto da M00n right?
    NASA was never anything but a Ballistic Missile development Program.. to intimidate the World...

    They have never been interested in Exploration. It was and is Weapon Development.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    ...Kentucky — An ominous bill that is currently making its way through the Kentucky Senate aims to give police unprecedented unconstitutional powers.
    ...
    Thank God they only want to check our papers. It would be worse if they could indiscriminately terminate innocent citizens.

    Unprecedented? Oh, there are “precedents”, especially from Presidents. Obama set the precedent that citizens can be killed any time, anywhere, with a drone, based on nothing but his word. Trump did the same for foreign leaders. President precedents.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    There is unfortunately a growing number of people in this country who just refuse to talk to cops, ever.

    At least with this bill, they could be detained for 2 hours. It certainly inconveniences whatever criminal activities they were surely up to.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  9. #8
    We live in a free country, so it only makes sense that Officers should be free to demand that people explain what they are doing and where they are going.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    We live in a free country, so it only makes sense that Officers should be free to demand that people explain what they are doing and where they are going.
    Quite right, comrade. Who could possibly complain, except someone with something to hide?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    So.. apparently the bill's author got so much backlash that he pulled the bill...

    https://www.kentucky.com/news/politi...239502963.html
    I compiled a "brief" history of events since October 2008 that are defining the global currency war and the role that gold is playing:

    Tin Foil Hats, Economic Reality and the Total Perspective Vortex

    Also, have you contacted your Congressional Rep and asked them co-sponsor Ron Paul's Rep. Paul Broun Jr.'s HR 1098 77: Free Competition in Currencies Act?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    There is unfortunately a growing number of people in this country who just refuse to talk to cops, ever.

    At least with this bill, they could be detained for 2 hours. It certainly inconveniences whatever criminal activities they were surely up to.
    Sad news, The "Texan."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    So.. apparently the bill's author got so much backlash that he pulled the bill...

    https://www.kentucky.com/news/politi...239502963.html
    After receiving criticism that he called “painful,” a state senator Tuesday withdrew his controversial bill that would allow police to stop people to demand identification if police think they might be about to commit a crime.
    The Lexington Herald-Leader reported on the bill last week and it was greeted with concern by civil rights lawyers who say it would be an unconstitutional action that disproportionately affected minorities.
    Under Senate Bill 89, if a police officer suspects someone in a public place is involved in criminal activity or is about to commit a crime, the officer could stop that person, demand his name, home address and age — as well as ask to see his driver’s license, if he has one — and tell him to explain what he is presently doing “to the satisfaction of the officer.”
    TOP ARTICLES










    KY Transportation Cabinet opening two more Real ID offices as October deadline looms





    Anyone who refuses to cooperate with police could be detained for up to two hours. That detention would not be considered an arrest, so the person would not have the right to call an attorney, and no official record would be made of the detention.



    In a floor speech Tuesday, Meredith, a hospital official, said he knew the language in the bill was not perfect but he thought there should be serious debate on what he wanted to accomplish after local police reported to him incidents that showed the need for it.

    But Meredith said he did not expect an outlash against him for introducing the bill.
    He said he has been subject to “trial by social media. It’s a modern day version of the Salem witch trials.”
    Meredith said he has received emails and threatening tweets in which he has been branded a communist, fascist, racist, idiot, scum, un-American and “an old, wrinkled white guy.”
    The hatred toward him, said Meredith, “would make the devil cringe.”
    “It’s been a painful three to four days, Mr. President,” said Meredith

    The lawmaker said no one can question his love for this country and that the intent of his legislation was to protect law-abiding citizens.
    He then said he has decided to drop the bill and went on to decry a lack of civility.
    “There has to be a turning point,” Meredith said.
    Critics say Meredith’s bill would violate the Fourth Amendment’s protection against unreasonable search and seizure and the Fifth Amendment’s protection against self-incrimination.
    Police officers already have the right to approach people on the street and ask their names, but it’s established that citizens can refuse to respond, said the ACLU of Kentucky. If police can show reasonable suspicion that someone is carrying a deadly weapon, they can proceed to frisk that person.

    They cannot detain people simply for not identifying themselves or explaining their activities to the satisfaction of the officer.





    State Sen. Stephen Meredith LRC PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ N
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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Sad news, The "Texan."
    So says, the "American" with a german username. You might fly planes but its probably for the Luftwaffe

    After receiving criticism that he called “painful,” a state senator Tuesday withdrew his controversial bill that would allow police to stop people to demand identification if police think they might be about to commit a crime.
    That's a shame. I'm sure the bill was mostly good, probably with a couple minor tweaks it could have gotten passed.

    I'll send this over to my Texas representatives, so they can learn from this bill's mistakes and pass a better version of this bill.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  15. #13
    Subsistence living on gruel in a 3rd world country is sounding better and better.

    Oh, it should be of no surprise that all these $#@!bags look like psycho child molesters.
    Last edited by Slave Mentality; 01-23-2020 at 04:37 PM.
    I do not consent.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Further Proof that the Nazis won WWII.. despite propaganda to the contrary.
    The exact opposite. Further proof the communists won WWII. You know the bolsheviks were mostly Jewish right?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    So.. apparently the bill's author got so much backlash that he pulled the bill...

    https://www.kentucky.com/news/politi...239502963.html
    Good. He tries pulling this little stunt again and he should get tarred and feathered.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  18. #16
    Police officers already have the right to approach people on the street and ask their names
    That this is a “new” law is a bit confusing, seeing as Police have pretty much always in practice stopped anyone they want at any time and asked for ID.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That this is a “new” law is a bit confusing, seeing as Police have pretty much always in practice stopped anyone they want at any time and asked for ID.
    Stop-and-ID varies from state to state. KY currently does not have a stop-and-ID statute but this was the attempt to start one. In practice, a cop can try to talk to you and get you to willingly identify yourself as the representative of the ALL CAPS NAME on the state's identification card but has no ability to require you to do it under duress.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  21. #18

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandmastersexsay View Post
    The exact opposite. Further proof the communists won WWII. You know the bolsheviks were mostly Jewish right?
    Don't Phucking Care.

    There is PURE Nazi Law and Action.Right here Right Now. There is very little Communist anything,,as that is nothing but a Utopian Fantasy ,,and Contrary To Human Nature. it wont exist.. Socialism is as close as human society gets,, and National Socialism is one of the ugliest forms of Authoritarianism. as if Nationalism wasn't bad enough alone.

    Clue,,
    Fear of Communism has established and Grown the Socialism in this country. And in Others.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 01-23-2020 at 08:57 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That this is a “new” law is a bit confusing, seeing as Police have pretty much always in practice stopped anyone they want at any time and asked for ID.
    used to have the Right to remain silent..
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Don't Phucking Care.

    There is PURE Nazi Law and Action.Right here Right Now. There is very little Communist anything,,as that is nothing but a Utopian Fantasy ,,and Contrary To Human Nature. it wont exist.. Socialism is as close as human society gets,, and National Socialism is one of the ugliest forms of Authoritarianism. as if Nationalism wasn't bad enough alone.
    Totalitarianism. Its like Ben and Jerry's--it has flavors.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Totalitarianism. Its like Ben and Jerry's--it has flavors.
    I am anti- Authoritarian..

    any flavor..

    No King but Jesus.. Outlaw to this world.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Quite right, comrade. Who could possibly complain, except someone with something to hide?
    Quite right, which I am sure is why the ACLU will cooperate, to be forthcoming and transparent.
    Where is John Galt?


    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    There is unfortunately a growing number of people in this country who just refuse to talk to cops, ever.

    At least with this bill, they could be detained for 2 hours. It certainly inconveniences whatever criminal activities they were surely up to.
    My enterprises are so well run they would continue while I take a two hour lunch break .
    Do something Danke . Zippy approves this message .



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That this is a “new” law is a bit confusing, seeing as Police have pretty much always in practice stopped anyone they want at any time and asked for ID.
    And ask where you are coming from and where you are going .
    Do something Danke . Zippy approves this message .

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Stop-and-ID varies from state to state. KY currently does not have a stop-and-ID statute but this was the attempt to start one. In practice, a cop can try to talk to you and get you to willingly identify yourself as the representative of the ALL CAPS NAME on the state's identification card but has no ability to require you to do it under duress.
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    used to have the Right to remain silent..
    An interesting dynamic. What is “under duress”? We have a Police State where they are trained that any refusal (contempt of cop) must be met with escalating violence. Who would refuse a question from the authority? What is the reality?

    Now let’s contrast that with a story in today’s headlines. Harvey Weinstein is on trial. What is the #metoo movement about? Anyone who is a “boss” is in a position of power and authority. Even if there is a voluntary or consensual relationship, it is considered under duress and forced. A criminal abuse of power. What is the difference?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    A criminal abuse of power. What is the difference?
    Was Harvey a Pal of Epstien??

    me too--experienced with the Police State..

    used to look forward to this outside (free)world

    Now it is looking like the Main Yard..

    Contemplating 40 Years.. Feb 4 1980, First Bank Robbery.
    My name was changed to Jesse James in the BoCoMo Jail,

    a bit later I met the Savior,, and was Baptized in the Missouri State Penn.

    40 years as a Free Man in Christ
    40 years as an Outlaw in this world

    I know what Authoritarianism is.. I studied it in a Macrocosm that I lived in.

    i hate to see the "free" world looking like that.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    An interesting dynamic. What is “under duress”? We have a Police State where they are trained that any refusal (contempt of cop) must be met with escalating violence. Who would refuse a question from the authority? What is the reality?

    Now let’s contrast that with a story in today’s headlines. Harvey Weinstein is on trial. What is the #metoo movement about? Anyone who is a “boss” is in a position of power and authority. Even if there is a voluntary or consensual relationship, it is considered under duress and forced. A criminal abuse of power. What is the difference?
    I understand your reply is mostly rhetorical but provides a good opportunity to expand further.

    Under duress=fear of arrest or consequence. Since much of what police engage in today are -commercial contract litigation operations-, not common law crime enforcement (crimes=victims), the UCC applies. UCC is the law of contracts and every state has incorporated the UCC into their state statutes. No one can force you into a contract (anything you sign is a contract! Including citations or arrest papers!) so anyone seeking to force you into a contract is placing you under duress. Go search for "your state ucc 1-308" to understand better. In NC it is 25-1-308 and simply states that you reserve your rights even though you are being forced into a contract under duress. OTOH, since it's often a contract matter with the cop, you also have the ability to state your terms for entering the contract Most cops have surety bonds that ensure they perform as agreed in contractual matters.....think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    used to have the Right to remain silent..
    My extensive research of legal rabbit hole matters and putting much of it into practice in real-life encounters has taught me that while remaining silent is the best move in some cases, it usually is NOT the best move. Why? Because silence is considered consent in legal matters. You have to refute assertions by your adversary, otherwise they are considered facts on record. As my reply to Brian demonstrates above, silence is the wrong move in most run-of-the-mill encounters with police. Of course, confessing to any violation is where people's talking gets them in trouble and that's what a cop wants you to do but if you can avoid that stupidity, silence can be just as damaging, if not worse, than saying the right things.
    Last edited by devil21; 01-24-2020 at 12:25 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  33. #29
    Who supports it the Republicans?

    Anyone against it?
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."



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