Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 69

Thread: According to Ron Paul Congress declares war on Iran with sanctions

  1. #1

    According to Ron Paul Congress declares war on Iran with sanctions

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Misleading title.
    .
    There has been no declaration or authorization.

    'it makes no sense', he says

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Misleading title.
    .
    There has been no declaration or authorization.

    'it makes no sense', he says
    "Sanctions are literally an act of war" he has said this about 70,000 times in 30 years

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Misleading title.
    .
    There has been no declaration or authorization.

    'it makes no sense', he says
    He says that Congress voted for an act of war against Iran, that's the same thing as a declaration.


    19:57
    "A declaration of war again does not necessarily mean a piece of paper that says 'we have declared war against you', under the founders' understanding war is declared when there are actions that create a war"






    And they have declared themselves at war with us:


    The IRGC declares itself to be at war with us.

    The new leader of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps' elite Quds Force once boasted that U.S. troops have “suffered more losses from us than we have suffered losses from them” and has repeatedly ripped President Trump and America’s allies.
    Brigadier Gen. Esmail Qaani, 62, now spearheads the special military unit following the death of Gen. Qassem Soleimani, who was killed Thursday in a U.S. airstrike at Baghdad International Airport in Iraq. He had served as Soleimani’s deputy commander since 1997 – and the Treasury Department says he has used his power to direct funding toward terrorist groups like Hezbollah.
    Qaani, like many other Iranian government and military officials, also has a history of making hostile and inflammatory statements against the U.S.
    “America has suffered more losses from us than we have suffered losses from them,” the Middle East Institute quoted him as saying during a 2017 ceremony in commemoration of Iranian forces and Iranian-backed militias battling in Syria and Iraq.

    More at: https://www.foxnews.com/world/esmail...ce-iran-us-foe


    The original IRANIAN source:
    https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1...AF%D9%87%D8%AF

    Translated:
    https://translate.google.com/#view=h...8%A7%D9%85%2F*

    "The war we have with the United States has been successful in standing up and resisting in the country because we are in the province," Qaani said




    He was a uniformed member and leader of an organization that brags about being at war with us and killing us, he was in Iraq while our people were being killed and our embassy was attacked and was accompanying uniformed members and leaders of the groups carrying out those attacks, groups that his group helped to create, fund and direct.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Must suck living in a state where straws are banned when you're grasping at them.

    His point is that sanctions are an act of war, so if we are going to incite war we need to declare it. It's like you've never heard a single word he said.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He says that Congress voted for an act of war against Iran, that's the same thing as a declaration.
    He said the sanctions were an ACT of war. he did not suggest there was a DECLARATION or authorization. Ron would be the first to say meddling in Iran is none of our business.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    He said the sanctions were an ACT of war. he did not suggest there was a DECLARATION or authorization. Ron would be the first to say meddling in Iran is none of our business.
    Engaging in an act of war is declaring war.
    We should leave and stop the war but Congress put us at war with Iran.

    19:57
    "A declaration of war again does not necessarily mean a piece of paper that says 'we have declared war against you', under the founders' understanding war is declared when there are actions that create a war"

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Engaging in an act of war is declaring war.
    We should leave and stop the war but Congress put us at war with Iran.
    A state of war only exists when it is declared in Congress. Ron does not say there is one like you title suggests. It's quite clear to me.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    "Sanctions are literally an act of war" he has said this about 70,000 times in 30 years
    That doesn't mean Congress has declared it. Where's the debate and declaration? There is none.. not since the 1940's which is exactly the problem.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    A state of war only exists when it is declared in Congress. Ron does not say there is one like you title suggests. It's quite clear to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    That doesn't mean Congress has declared it. Where's the debate and declaration? There is none.. not since the 1940's which is exactly the problem.
    Ron said that Congress engaged in an act of war against Iran, that's the same thing as declaring war against Iran.
    They debated whether to impose sanctions and they declared sanctions imposed, if sanctions are an act of war as Ron declares them to be then Congress debated war and declared it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Engaging in an act of war is declaring war.
    We should leave and stop the war but Congress put us at war with Iran.

    o]
    Stop watching videos and read the damned document. You should (but you won't) discover that the constitution draws distinctions between "declaring," "levying" and "engaging in" war.

    Or maybe you can stop occupying this land you don't belong in, warring with Ron Paul's real supporters. Just leave. Try your own personal non-interventionism, Trumpette.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ron said that Congress engaged in an act of war against Iran, that's the same thing as declaring war against Iran.
    They debated whether to impose sanctions and they declared sanctions imposed, if sanctions are an act of war as Ron declares them to be then Congress debated war and declared it.
    No its not. If it was truly an act of war then Congress has to debate, vote and declare it. There is no debate , vote or declaration so no war. The last time it happened was in the 1940's, perhaps you should read history.


    On December 11, 1941, the United States Congress declared war upon Germany (Pub.L. 77Ė331, Sess. 1, ch. 564, 55 Stat. 796), hours after Germany declared war on the United States after the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Empire of Japan.[1] The vote was 88Ė0 in the Senate and 393Ė0 in the House.

    Seventy-Seventh Congress of the United States of America;

    At the First Session Begun and held at the City of Washington, on Friday, the third day of January, 1941.

    JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring That a State of War Exists Between The Government of Germany and the Government and the People of the United States and Making Provisions To Prosecute The Same

    Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the Government and the people of the United States of America: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

    (Signed) Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the House of Representatives

    (Signed) H. A. Wallace, Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate

    Approved December 11, 1941 3:05 PM E.S.T.

    (Signed) Franklin D. Roosevelt[2]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Germany_(1941)

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Stop watching videos and read the damned document. You should (but you won't) discover that the constitution draws distinctions between "declaring," "levying" and "engaging in" war.

    Or maybe you can stop occupying this land you don't belong in, warring with Ron Paul's real supporters. Just leave. Try your own personal non-interventionism, Trumpette.
    Engaging in or levying war automatically declares war.
    And if you want to nitpick then the fault is all on Congress for starting a war and not issuing the proper paperwork, Trump has a right and a duty to defend Americans in the war Congress started whether they didn't file the proper paperwork or not.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    No its not. If it was truly an act of war then Congress has to debate, vote and declare it. There is no debate , vote or declaration so no war. The last time it happened was in the 1940's, perhaps you should read history.


    On December 11, 1941, the United States Congress declared war upon Germany (Pub.L. 77–331, Sess. 1, ch. 564, 55 Stat. 796), hours after Germany declared war on the United States after the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Empire of Japan.[1] The vote was 88–0 in the Senate and 393–0 in the House.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Germany_(1941)
    Congress did debate the act of war and vote for it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Congress did debate the act of war and vote for it.
    Not against Iran. In fact next week Congress is going to vote against a war with Iran

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Not against Iran. In fact next week Congress is going to vote against a war with Iran
    Congress voted to impose sanctions on Iran, according to Ron that is a vote for an act of war against Iran.

    You can't have it both ways.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Congress voted to impose sanctions on Iran, according to Ron that is a vote for an act of war against Iran.

    You can't have it both ways.
    No, that's not true. I just pasted the declaration of war from 1941 and Congress has not done anything like that with regards to Iran... Are you deliberately being stupid?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    No, that's not true. I just pasted the declaration of war from 1941 and Congress has not done anything like that with regards to Iran... Are you deliberately being stupid?
    Are you claiming that Congress didn't debate and vote for sanctions?
    Or are you claiming that Ron is wrong and sanctions are not an act of war?

    You can't have it both ways.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    No, that's not true. I just pasted the declaration of war from 1941 and Congress has not done anything like that with regards to Iran... Are you deliberately being stupid?
    He's an interventionist, spreading Trump's one-true version of democracy to us third world Paulitarians.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Engaging in or levying war automatically declares war.
    And if you want to nitpick then the fault is all on Congress for starting a war and not issuing the proper paperwork, Trump has a right and a duty to defend Americans in the war Congress started whether they didn't file the proper paperwork or not.
    Not according to the constitution, which clearly you haven't actually read. I will say it again: the constitution clearly draws distinctions between declaring, levying and engaging-in. Sanctions are engaging in, but not declaring. That was Pauls objection to them.

    Now go away.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    He's an interventionist, spreading Trump's one-true version of democracy to us third world Paulitarians.
    I want us to end the wars and come home and I promote that here and other places.
    But I want Trump to protect our people from the wars Congress started until that happens.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Are you claiming that Congress didn't debate and vote for sanctions?
    Or are you claiming that Ron is wrong and sanctions are not an act of war?

    You can't have it both ways.
    l

    No, read this carefully:

    A sanctions Bill does not equate to a declaration of war. A declaration of war is a separate resolution like the one ive shown you from 1941. Ron is CORRECT that sanctions are an act of war and leads to future conflict. You are simply confused.

  26. #23

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Not according to the constitution, which clearly you haven't actually read. I will say it again: the constitution clearly draws distinctions between declaring, levying and engaging-in. Sanctions are engaging in, but not declaring. That was Pauls objection to them.

    Now go away.
    Quote the part that you think negates what I said.
    Congress started a war whether they filed the proper paperwork or not.
    Jefferson never got a declaration of war against the Barbary pirates because a state of war existed whether our Congress issued a declaration or not.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    l

    No, read this carefully:

    A sanctions Bill does not equate to a declaration of war. A declaration of war is a separate resolution like the one ive shown you from 1941. Ron is CORRECT that sanctions are an act of war and leads to future conflict. You are simply confused.
    An act of war starts a war and Congress voted for one, the lack of an official declaration is a problem for Congress not Trump.
    Jefferson never got a declaration of war against the Barbary pirates because a state of war existed whether our Congress issued a declaration or not.

    Congress started a war with Iran and Trump must protect out people from the Iranians that Congress started a war with.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    An act of war starts a war and Congress voted for one, the lack of an official declaration is a problem for Congress not Trump.
    Jefferson never got a declaration of war against the Barbary pirates because a state of war existed whether our Congress issued a declaration or not.

    Congress started a war with Iran and Trump must protect out people from the Iranians that Congress started a war with.
    Trump has no authorization to strike without Congress approving of it. He is not a dictator or a King. The founders put it in the constitution for a reason.

    You won't listen. I'm done and will leave you with what Amash wrote :


    https://twitter.com/justinamash/stat...28185281830913

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Trump has no authorization to strike without Congress approving of it. He is not a dictator or a King. The founders put it in the constitution for a reason.

    You won't listen. I'm done and will leave you with what Amash wrote :


    https://twitter.com/justinamash/stat...28185281830913
    Congress started a war with Iran and both Trump's position as Commander in Chief and standing authorization from Congress in the War Powers act gives him the power to conduct that war in defense of our people.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    What the $#@! is going on here anymore? This place has been over run by a demented version of John McCains ghost.
    "The Patriarch"

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Quote the part that you think negates what I said.
    Congress started a war whether they filed the proper paperwork or not.
    Jefferson never got a declaration of war against the Barbary pirates because a state of war existed whether our Congress issued a declaration or not.
    I don't think that you can honestly believe that Ron Paul was protesting the fact that we declared war via sanctions while he was simultaneously protesting the fact that we hadn't declared war. That makes no sense.

    Of course engaging and levying is not declaring, which is the exact point Ron Paul was making. His point is that Congress should not be imposing sanctions because it's an act of war, but they had not declared war. Of course, you aren't here to support Ron Paul, you're here to support Trump so obviously you are not going to agree with Ron Paul on very much.


    Article III, Section 3, Clause 1 : Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

    Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Must suck living in a state where straws are banned when you're grasping at them.


    His point is that sanctions are an act of war, so if we are going to incite war we need to declare it.

    It's like you've never heard a single word he said.
    Sanctions are an "act of war" & should not exist unless war has been constitutionally declared.
    There is no spoon.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-16-2020, 10:32 PM
  2. RP to Congress: Iran sanctions=act of war
    By heavenlyboy34 in forum Ron Paul Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-16-2020, 10:29 PM
  3. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 02-07-2014, 12:11 PM
  4. Congress looks to expand sanctions on Iran
    By tsai3904 in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 10-07-2012, 11:34 AM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-08-2009, 10:29 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •