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Thread: Sen. Kaine, Lee: 'We should not be at war with Iran unless Congress authorizes it'

  1. #1

    Sen. Kaine, Lee: 'We should not be at war with Iran unless Congress authorizes it'

    Some powerful points in the Op-Ed. Hopefully it wakes some people up.

    Senators Tim Kaine (D-Va.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) are calling on their Senate colleagues to support a proposed resolution aimed at reining in President Trump's war powers against Iran.

    In a Washington Post op-ed published Wednesday, the two argued that Congress has shirked its responsibility far too often when it comes to "proper use of force to meet global threats."

    In the face of this history, the senators urged their colleagues to change this trend and back a resolution that would prohibit war with Iran without congressional authorization.

    "Our resolution puts a simple statement before the Senate," writes Lee and Kaine, who is also the resolution's author.

    "We should not be at war with Iran unless Congress authorizes it. If senators are unwilling to have this debate — because a war vote is hard or opinion polls suggest that their vote might be unpopular — how dare we order our troops to courageously serve and risk all?"

    The message comes just a day after Kaine told reporters that he gained the necessary Republican votes to pass an amended version of his resolution. Kaine is seeking to move forward with the measure amid escalating tensions between the U.S. and Iran and as lawmakers voice frustrations over the lack of information the Trump administration has provided them.

    In their essay, Kaine and Lee point to the authors of the Constitution to justify their stance on Congress' role in matters related to war. They note that James Madison, the principal drafter of the Constitution, wrote that the executive branch is “most interested in war, & most prone to it” and that the Constitution, “ 'with studied care, vested the question of war' in the legislature."

    They also denounced the Trump administration for being "infuriatingly dismissive of the role of Congress" during a briefing last week about the airstrike Trump ordered that killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Goleimani.

    Officials suggested "that congressional debate might hurt the morale of U.S. troops," the two wrote.

    "They have it backward. Congressional debate and deliberation are designed precisely to protect our troops and their families," they write, pointing to the 18 years of continuous war in the Middle East. "If the United States is to order our troops into harm’s way again, we should at least have an open debate about whether a war with Iran, or indeed any war, is truly in our national interest."

    Lee, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Sen. Todd Young (R-Ind.) have announced their support for Kaine's resolution. The Virginia senator said Tuesday that Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) would also endorse it.

    If it passes the Senate, the House would also need to approve the resolution before it could be sent to the White House, where Trump would be expected to veto it.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...nless-congress



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  3. #2
    Ok but not good enough, how about we adopt a just war theory like Ron Paul had suggested. I really do not trust congress to do the right thing, they are just as bad if not worse than the president. They are all Israeli firsters or afraid to speak up for the interest of the US. The criteria for war shouldn't just be an approval from the congress.

  4. #3
    ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^


    an 1800s definition of the way a POTUS can wage war is at times more apt & fitting than a 20th Century one!!!!!

  5. #4
    It should not be limited to Iran, but it's better than nothing.
    "The Patriarch"

  6. #5

    How Tim Kaine convinced Republicans to vote to rein in Trump's war powers


    When Tim Kaine was pushing Republicans to support his effort to curb military action in Iran, he kept hearing concerns that the resolution was an attack on President Donald Trump.

    The Virginia Democrat recalled that Republican Sens. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) in particular asked whether the resolution was really about the Trump administration.

    “When they said, ‘Is this about President Trump? Isn’t this about any president?’ I said you’re right, it’s about any president,” Kaine said, adding that he then nixed the sections in his resolution that specifically mentioned Trump.

    Lee and Paul eventually backed the resolution, after a briefing from top administration officials about the killing of General Qassem Soleimani left them deeply dissatisfied. And on Tuesday, Kaine got additional support from Republican Sens. Todd Young of Indiana and Susan Collins of Maine, giving him the four Republican votes he needs to pass the measure.

    Senate passage of a proposal to rein in the president's war powers represents a remarkable rebuke, even if there likely aren't enough votes to withstand Trump’s veto.

    Kaine’s effort highlights the Virginia senator’s long obsession with keeping checks on presidential war powers. The one-time vice presidential hopeful notes that he also called for President Barack Obama to come to Congress when it came to the war with ISIS or possibly striking Syria for the use of chemical weapons. That position, Kaine says, has helped him earn trust in his conversations with Republicans when it comes to this president.

    “Republicans know I pressured Obama on this,” Kaine said, adding he “wouldn’t get very far” if he had only pressured Trump. “They know I’m on the Armed Services Committee, they know I pressed Obama as much as I press Trump, they know I got a son in the military”

    Senate Republicans, when asked about Kaine, also like to highlight his criticism of Obama.

    “While President Obama was still in office he was willing to step forward and express concerns where others weren’t,” Lee said. “I like that.”

    Young, who described Kaine’s initial draft of the resolution as “politically charged,” said the Virginia lawmaker’s consistency gives him credibility on the matter — “a consistency few others bring to the issue.”

    “The other thing that gives him credibility is he has approached this without — to my knowledge — taking political potshots at the president, and that stands in stark contrast to some others,” the Indiana Republican added.

    Kaine said there are about 10 to 12 Republicans who could possibly back the War Powers Resolution. But it’s likely to be met with resistance from most members of the Senate GOP, who have raised concerns about the resolution’s timing amid recent tensions with Iran and fear further restricting Trump’s authority.

    Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) said in a statement Tuesday that he will oppose Kaine’s resolution, arguing it would “send the wrong message to Iran” and “tie the President’s hands in responding to further potential Iranian aggression.”

    Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.), a strong Trump ally, said the resolution was “political gamesmanship” and that “anything that Donald Trump does, the response from Democrats - you should be suspicious.”

    And Collins, who initially had concerns about the message Kaine’s resolution would send to Iran, had qualms about some of the earlier language, particularly when it came to removing troops from hostilities. Kaine, however, helped convince her by clarifying language that the resolution aimed to “terminate the use of U.S. forces in hostilities." That change appeared to appease Collins.

    The Maine Republican said Monday, prior to announcing her support for the resolution, that Kaine was “very receptive,” adding he “made changes that in my view improve the resolution.”

    Kaine initially drafted the War Powers resolution three months ago. The latest version of his resolution can come to the Senate floor as early as next week. But the timing for the resolution remains in limbo given the impeachment trial. It’s unclear yet whether the Senate will vote on legislation while the trial takes place. Once it passes the Senate, it will go to the House.

    The resolution is not the first time the Senate has asserted congressional authority over Trump’s foreign policy. Last year, the Senate passed a bipartisan War Powers resolution to end U.S. support for the Saudi-backed war in Yemen, which Trump vetoed.

    The chamber also voted on an amendment to the defense authorization bill from Kaine and Sen. Tom Udall (D-N.M.) that would require Trump to seek congressional approval for military action in Iran. The amendment, however, didn’t meet the 60-vote threshold to pass.

    Kaine recalled that at the start of his tenure in the Senate, few senators were interested in discussing Congress’ role in war powers. He says that’s changing now because of two factors: the belief that Trump is impulsive and the amount of time that’s passed since Congress authorized the military use of force in 2001 and 2002 in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.

    “I felt very lonely — like nobody was interested in this when I started, and more and more people are now interested in this issue,” he said. “The longer we're in this state of perpetual war ... the people see that there's some impulsive action they're like, 'we gotta, we gotta do something to clean this up.'”
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-powers-098914

  7. #6
    Funny how Tim Kaine is trying to portray himself as an anti-war guy. If he was president, he'd be saying he doesn't need congressional approval.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  8. #7
    War is not a piece of paper. When the conditions of war exist, I want proper defence of our country and citizens.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    War is not a piece of paper. When the conditions of war exist, I want proper defence of our country and citizens.
    Amash gave good answer to your point:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...76#post6910776



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  11. #9
    Let's debate the theory behind declaring war after 20 years of abuse.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    It should not be limited to Iran, but it's better than nothing.
    It's almost worthless if it's limited to Iran.
    They want to let the next deepstate puppet declare war on any other country.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    War is not a piece of paper. When the conditions of war exist, I want proper defence of our country and citizens.
    19:57
    "A declaration of war again does not necessarily mean a piece of paper that says 'we have declared war against you', under the founders' understanding war is declared when there are actions that create a war"

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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