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Thread: The Intercept: Donald Trump Murdered Qassim Suleimani

  1. #1

    The Intercept: Donald Trump Murdered Qassim Suleimani

    https://theintercept.com/2020/01/09/...eimani-murder/

    DONALD TRUMP HAS DRAGGED America into a moral abyss. And yet Congress, the press, and the public are unwilling to admit that we are now standing in blood. The nation is enabling a murderous demagogue, and we are all complicit.

    The president of the United States has murdered a high-ranking official of a foreign government. The assassination last week of Iranian Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani was a state-sponsored murder.

    But no one in the Washington establishment seems prepared to come out and say the hard truth: Donald Trump is a murderer.

    This criminal moment has been a long time coming.

    The United States has an assassination ban. The ban was put in place following disclosures by the Church Committee in the 1970s, which revealed that the CIA had secretly attempted to kill a series of foreign leaders, most notably Cuba’s Fidel Castro.

    At the time of the Senate committee’s investigation, no one in the American government or media publicly defended assassination as a tool of a modern nation-state. It was simply not the accepted practice of a democracy that wanted to serve as a role model for the world.

    But the reform-minded 1970s now seem quaint in a nation whose greatest military innovation in the 21st century has been the targeted killing of individuals by remote control.

    US President Donald Trump leaves after making a statement on Iran at the Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach Florida, on January 3, 2020. - President Donald Trump said on January 3, 2020 that America does not seek war or regime change with Iran, less than a day after the US launched an airstrike in Baghdad that killed Iran's top general, Qasem Soleimani.

    For the last two decades, both Republican and Democratic presidents have worked quietly to skirt the assassination ban in order to take advantage of new aviation, missile guidance, and surveillance technologies to find and kill individuals all over the world. To launch targeted killings without violating the assassination ban, presidents have counted on compliant government lawyers to issue secret legal opinions that rubber-stamped their actions.

    The Clinton administration started this process in 1998, in the wake of the bombings of two U.S. embassies in East Africa by Al Qaeda. In response, the White House decided to launch cruise missile strikes against what they claimed were terrorist training camps near Khost, Afghanistan. The primary target was Osama bin Laden.

    At the time, I was covering national security and intelligence for the New York Times. I asked White House officials whether the action had violated the assassination ban. They responded that it had not because the target was the “command and control infrastructure” of Al Qaeda. When I asked them what they meant by “command and control infrastructure,” they reluctantly admitted that the “command and control infrastructure” of Al Qaeda was its leadership, meaning bin Laden. I realized that the Clinton administration’s lawyers had prepared a euphemism-laden opinion to provide legal cover for Bill Clinton and his advisers. That was the beginning of what has become a very long pattern.

    After 9/11, political concerns about the assassination ban went by the boards because there was such overwhelming public support for the new, so-called global war on terror. But the government’s lawyers still worried about the assassination ban and other rules and regulations governing the use of state-sponsored violence.

    That’s why the congressional legislation known as the Authorization for Use of Military Force has been so important to government lawyers. The AUMF, passed by Congress just days after 9/11, has provided the basic legal authorization for counterterrorism strikes ever since.

    Armed with the AUMF and other legal backstops, the Bush and Obama administrations began to kill at will. The killing has never stopped. It has been a vicious campaign that has claimed countless innocent lives, destabilized nations, and been almost entirely counterproductive. It has made Americans numb to endless war.

    But the United States gained public and legal support for targeted killings only for what it described as the asymmetric fight against terrorism. It targeted suspected terrorists: “non-state actors.”

    That is where Trump has now crossed a clear line. He conducted a drone strike to murder the official who served as Iran’s viceroy in Iraq. Qassim Suleimani was most definitely not a “non-state actor.”


    Suleimani was the head of the Quds Force, the elite external operations arm of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, which operated with impunity throughout Iraq under his leadership. He ran Iran’s ground campaign against ISIS in Iraq, in parallel to the American air campaign, and employed Shia militias and their ruthless tactics to defeat the cult-like group. The United States has been happy to take credit for the victory over ISIS in Iraq, without admitting that it relied heavily upon Suleimani’s horrific paramilitary actions and his strategic acumen.

    But he was much more than a special forces commander or spymaster; he was Iran’s most important envoy, and he served as Tehran’s intimidating political fixer throughout the Middle East.

    He dominated the political landscape in Baghdad. In November, The Intercept and the New York Times reported on leaked Iranian intelligence cables that publicly documented Iran’s deep influence in Iraq from Iran’s perspective for the first time. What jumped off the pages in the leaked cables was Suleimani’s personal political power in Iraq and his hold on many of Iraq’s top political, military, and security officials.

    Last October, Suleimani intervened at the highest levels of Iraqi politics to keep Iraqi Prime Minister Adil Abdul-Mahdi in office amid massive protests and calls for his resignation. American officials serving in Iraq always thought they heard Suleimani’s footsteps.

    In April 2019, the Trump administration designated the Revolutionary Guards, and Suleimani’s Quds Force, terrorist organizations. It was the first time the United States had ever designated a unit of another government a terrorist group.

    At the time, the long-debated action was broadly portrayed as just another step in Trump’s reckless campaign to ratchet up economic sanctions on Iran and Iranian leaders. But I believe that the terrorist designation was Suleimani’s death warrant. I would not be surprised if the drone strike against Suleimani was supported by a secret legal opinion claiming that since he was the leader of a designated terrorist organization, he was a legitimate target in the war on terror under the AUMF and other counterterrorism legal guidelines. I’m sure that the lawyers at the National Security Council, the White House, and the Justice Department are sleeping well, knowing that they found a quick legal fix to allow Donald Trump to murder a foreign government official.

    If we had a real Congress, there would be a congressional investigation into whatever lame, paper-thin legal rationalizations have been written by government lawyers to back up this murder. Instead, we are left with the nagging realization that Trump has just found a new loophole to circumvent the assassination ban.

    But such actions prompt responses. Iran’s parliament has passed a bill designating all U.S. military forces terrorists.

    The threat of retaliation has always been one of the most potent arguments against the use of assassination as a national security tool: It can prompt other countries to target Americans for assassination. And if international strictures against assassination are eliminated, we will be one step closer to the abandonment of the laws of war.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.



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  3. #2
    Operation Vengeance was the American military operation to kill Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto of the Imperial Japanese Navy on April 18, 1943, during the Solomon Islands campaign in the Pacific Theater of World War II. Yamamoto, commander of the Combined Fleet of the Imperial Japanese Navy, was killed on Bougainville Island when his transport bomber aircraft was shot down by United States Army Air Forces fighter aircraft operating from Kukum Field on Guadalcanal.
    The mission of the U.S. aircraft was specifically to kill Yamamoto and was based on United States Navy intelligence on Yamamoto's itinerary in the Solomon Islands area. The death of Yamamoto reportedly damaged the morale of Japanese naval personnel, raised the morale of the Allied forces, and was intended as revenge by U.S. leaders who blamed Yamamoto for the attack on Pearl Harbor that initiated the formal state of war between Imperial Japan and the United States.
    The U.S. pilots claimed to have shot down three twin-engined bombers and two fighters during the mission, but Japanese sources show only two bombers were shot down. There is a controversy over which pilot shot down Yamamoto's plane, but most modern historians credit Lieutenant Rex T. Barber.
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Operation Vengeance was the American military operation to kill Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto of the Imperial Japanese Navy on April 18, 1943, during the Solomon Islands campaign in the Pacific Theater of World War II. Yamamoto, commander of the Combined Fleet of the Imperial Japanese Navy, was killed on Bougainville Island when his transport bomber aircraft was shot down by United States Army Air Forces fighter aircraft operating from Kukum Field on Guadalcanal.
    The mission of the U.S. aircraft was specifically to kill Yamamoto and was based on United States Navy intelligence on Yamamoto's itinerary in the Solomon Islands area. The death of Yamamoto reportedly damaged the morale of Japanese naval personnel, raised the morale of the Allied forces, and was intended as revenge by U.S. leaders who blamed Yamamoto for the attack on Pearl Harbor that initiated the formal state of war between Imperial Japan and the United States.
    The U.S. pilots claimed to have shot down three twin-engined bombers and two fighters during the mission, but Japanese sources show only two bombers were shot down. There is a controversy over which pilot shot down Yamamoto's plane, but most modern historians credit Lieutenant Rex T. Barber.
    It seems that Jefferson "murdered" the Barbary Pirates and that the US Navy "murdered" the operators of the Japanese minisub that tried to enter Pearl Harbor hours before the attack.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    The United States has been happy to take credit for the victory over ISIS in Iraq, without admitting that it relied heavily upon Suleimani’s horrific paramilitary actions and his strategic acumen.
    Trump and this joke of NeoCon admin is taking credit for the deafet of ISIS in Syria as well while they didnt do anything those that stopped ISIS was Syria's allies. Not the Kurds.

    Given the chance i would glady side over with Turkey when it comes to the issues that Turkey has with Kurds.

  6. #5
    I am not sympathetic to not putting military generals or politicians on alert that there is consequences for their actions. Hell, I'd target bankers too.
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ NƎI⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post

    Given the chance i would glady side over with Turkey when it comes to the issues that Turkey has with Kurds.
    Those are artificial boundaries drawn up be the British. Why do you want to limit Kurds from a sovereign Kudistan?
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

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    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Those are artificial boundaries drawn up be the British. Why do you want to limit Kurds from a sovereign Kudistan?
    In history books there was no chance thing as a Kudistan of course the Saudis would love it for it to happen though. It helps fuel their agenda, but knowing my knowledge America wouldn't sell out Turkey in fears that Turkey might punish Europe more knowing they have more migrants waiting to be send then Libya currently.

    As for claiming that those are artificial boundaries drawn up be the British well i could say the same thing about Kuwait and maybe that's why Americans and British are using their own puppet gov there so they can always justify to use Kuwait as a launching pad to attack either Iran or Iraq.


    Kuwait used to be part of the Basra Province till the fall of the Ottoman empire, i guess they dont teach you this kind of stuff in schools eh?
    Last edited by AngryCanadian; 01-10-2020 at 03:53 PM.

  9. #8
    Having just murdered someone, it would seem that the ordinary person would have a fit of conscience. Nope, not the war criminal in chief, he just calmly went down to dinner after the assassination. True indications of a psychopath. Neocons on the march.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    Having just murdered someone, it would seem that the ordinary person would have a fit of conscience. Nope, not the war criminal in chief, he just calmly went down to dinner after the assassination. True indications of a psychopath. Neocons on the march.
    Neocons are on the march and their brainless followers follow them like a sheep to the meat grinder.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Operation Vengeance was the American military operation to kill Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto of the Imperial Japanese Navy on April 18, 1943, during the Solomon Islands campaign in the Pacific Theater of World War II. Yamamoto, commander of the Combined Fleet of the Imperial Japanese Navy, was killed on Bougainville Island when his transport bomber aircraft was shot down by United States Army Air Forces fighter aircraft operating from Kukum Field on Guadalcanal.
    The mission of the U.S. aircraft was specifically to kill Yamamoto and was based on United States Navy intelligence on Yamamoto's itinerary in the Solomon Islands area. The death of Yamamoto reportedly damaged the morale of Japanese naval personnel, raised the morale of the Allied forces, and was intended as revenge by U.S. leaders who blamed Yamamoto for the attack on Pearl Harbor that initiated the formal state of war between Imperial Japan and the United States.
    The U.S. pilots claimed to have shot down three twin-engined bombers and two fighters during the mission, but Japanese sources show only two bombers were shot down. There is a controversy over which pilot shot down Yamamoto's plane, but most modern historians credit Lieutenant Rex T. Barber.
    Why are we getting all these comparisons to the Japanese on this? First SS with the mini-sub and now this with Yamamoto. Are we officially at war with Iran? FFS, did they attack one of our naval bases and I missed it? The leap from one to the other is ridiculous. It is the US who is threatening Iran on it's home turf not the other way around.
    "The Patriarch"

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Why are we getting all these comparisons to the Japanese on this? First SS with the mini-sub and now this with Yamamoto. Are we officially at war with Iran? FFS, did they attack one of our naval bases and I missed it? The leap from one to the other is ridiculous. It is the US who is threatening Iran on it's home turf not the other way around.
    We were not yet at war with Japan when the minisub tried to enter Pearl Harbor and Iran has been killing Americans for years and bragging about being at war with us which is more than Japan had done.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Why are we getting all these comparisons to the Japanese on this? First SS with the mini-sub and now this with Yamamoto. Are we officially at war with Iran? FFS, did they attack one of our naval bases and I missed it? The leap from one to the other is ridiculous. It is the US who is threatening Iran on it's home turf not the other way around.
    The propaganda-ists are chanting, 'but he killed 'Mercuns!!!" even though the sources the true anti-war people here trust say that's just a lie.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We were not yet at war with Japan when the minisub tried to enter Pearl Harbor and Iran has been killing Americans for years and bragging about being at war with us which is more than Japan had done.
    And we have been killing them for years, not to mention interfering in a huge and malevolent manner in their politics. But Suleimani wasn't piloting a mini-sub and we aren't at war with Iran, yet. In fact, I would wager that if we quit trying to militarily control the region and stuck with engaging in commerce instead the Iranians would have zero problems with us.
    "The Patriarch"

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    And we have been killing them for years, not to mention interfering in a huge and malevolent manner in their politics. But Suleimani wasn't piloting a mini-sub and we aren't at war with Iran, yet. In fact, I would wager that if we quit trying to militarily control the region and stuck with engaging in commerce instead the Iranians would have zero problems with us.
    Remind me again why we had a base in the Asia Pacific?
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Remind me again why we had a base in the Asia Pacific?
    Well, it surely couldn't have been because we were planning, indeed provoking conflict there.
    "The Patriarch"

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    And we have been killing them for years, not to mention interfering in a huge and malevolent manner in their politics. But Suleimani wasn't piloting a mini-sub and we aren't at war with Iran, yet. In fact, I would wager that if we quit trying to militarily control the region and stuck with engaging in commerce instead the Iranians would have zero problems with us.
    I want us to leave too, but until we do we must protect our people.

    He was a uniformed member and leader of an organization that brags about being at war with us and killing us, he was in Iraq while our people were being killed and our embassy was attacked and was accompanying uniformed members and leaders of the groups carrying out those attacks, groups that his group helped to create, fund and direct.
    That's close enough to being in a minisub trying to enter the harbor.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I want us to leave too, but until we do we must protect our people.

    He was a uniformed member and leader of an organization that brags about being at war with us and killing us, he was in Iraq while our people were being killed and our embassy was attacked and was accompanying uniformed members and leaders of the groups carrying out those attacks, groups that his group helped to create, fund and direct.
    That's close enough to being in a minisub trying to enter the harbor.
    Blarg, blarg, blarg. The fact is we created the situation. If we weren't there creating conflict there wouldn't be any, that is the bottom line, period.
    "The Patriarch"

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Blarg, blarg, blarg. The fact is we created the situation. If we weren't there creating conflict there wouldn't be any, that is the bottom line, period.
    I never disagreed.
    But that's not a reason to not protect our people until we can leave.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I never disagreed.
    But that's not a reason to not protect our people until we can leave.
    I understand "our people" aren't the ones making the decisions. But what would your reaction be if Iran assassinated our top General there?

    Top U.S. General: It’s ‘Very Possible’ Iran Will Attack Again
    ANAMA, Bahrain—Since May, the Pentagon has dispatched 14,000 additional U.S. troops, an aircraft carrier, and tens of thousands of pounds of military equipment to the Middle East to respond to what it says are alarming new threats from Iran. But despite the stepped-up U.S. military posture, the top U.S. general in the region believes the Iranian threat continues to rise—and Tehran is likely to continue lashing out.

    “I think the strike on Saudi Aramco in September is pretty indicative of a nation that is behaving irresponsibly,” said Gen. Kenneth McKenzie, the commander of U.S. Central Command, in a Friday interview, referring to the Sept. 14 Iran-sponsored attack on Saudi facilities that took half of Riyadh’s oil production offline.

    “My judgment is that it is very possible they will attack again.”

    McKenzie, who stepped into his new job in March, assumed command of the world’s most volatile theater at a particularly turbulent time. Over the past eight months, the Taliban has intensified attacks in Afghanistan, Turkey invaded northeast Syria, the Islamic State has threatened to resurge, and Yemen continues to be the world’s worst humanitarian disaster. But Iran is the one common thread undermining regional stability through direct attacks on its neighbors, supporting disruptive proxies such as the Taliban in Afghanistan and Yemen’s Houthi rebels, and increasingly penetrating Iraq and Syria.

    While Iran’s primary goal is to preserve its clerical regime, Tehran has long had hegemonic ambitions, McKenzie said. Over the last 10 years, Iran has invested heavily in ballistic missiles and other capabilities in order to threaten its neighbors. Indeed, according to a new report on Iran’s military power from the Defense Intelligence Agency—the first of its kind—Tehran significantly increased its defense spending from its recent low in 2014 to $27.3 billion, or 6 percent of GDP, in 2018.

    In recent months, the regime has lashed out against a new threat: a U.S. maximum pressure campaign that has imposed heavy economic costs, including forcing Iran to slash its defense budget to $20.7 billion, or 3.8 percent of GDP, in 2019. In addition to Iran’s alleged attacks on commercial shipping in the Persian Gulf and the Sept. 14 attack on Saudi oil, U.S. defense officials have been warning for months about “credible” threats to U.S. forces, but they have declined to say what exactly that threat looks like.

    McKenzie shed new light on the threat, saying he is particularly concerned about the possibility of a strike involving large numbers of drones and missiles—much like the Aramco attack, which used dozens of Iran-manufactured cruise missiles and drones to devastate Saudi oil infrastructure.

    U.S. officials are particularly concerned about the threat to critical desalination plants in the Gulf, said a senior U.S. military official in the region. An attack on these facilities, which could threaten the region’s primary source of drinking water and potentially cause a humanitarian crisis, would be a “gamechanger,” the official said.

    McKenzie cautioned that Tehran’s actions are unpredictable. “I wouldn’t discount anything from Iran,” McKenzie said. “When a nation behaves that irresponsibly, you have to be very cautious when you evaluate what they might do in the future.”
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/23...-general-says/
    "The Patriarch"

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Blarg, blarg, blarg. The fact is we created the situation. If we weren't there creating conflict there wouldn't be any, that is the bottom line, period.
    Meanwhile, we're totes besties with Saudi Arabia!
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I understand "our people" aren't the ones making the decisions. But what would your reaction be if Iran assassinated our top General there?




    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/23...-general-says/
    That we should come home.
    And that we should have protected him.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Meanwhile, we're totes besties with Saudi Arabia!
    It's all good, the Saudis are into freedom and $#@!.
    "The Patriarch"

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    It's all good, the Saudis are into freedom and $#@!.
    Since Sword is always posting stats about how many crimes Mexican illlegals commit here, how long before we shoot a Mexican general in the face I wonder? Not in person, of course. That would be manly.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Since Sword is always posting stats about how many crimes Mexican illlegals commit here, how long before we shoot a Mexican general in the face I wonder? Not in person, of course. That would be manly.
    If the Mexican army starts killing our people then we should kill any of them that try and declare war on Mexico.
    Then we can take about 100 yards of Mexican territory and create a kill zone to keep all the invaders out.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Let's not forget that Gina Haskell, the head of the CIA and the alleged source of the "intelligence" is a neocon's neocon. Personally oversaw the torture program in Iraq, personally destroyed video records of that program, and should never have been allowed to work in government ever again.

    I am far more frightened of this bitch than any Iranian anywhere on the planet Yet I am not allowed to shoot her in the face?
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That we should come home.
    And that we should have protected him.
    So because we didn't do either it's pretty much our fault he was killed?
    "The Patriarch"

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Let's not forget that Gina Haskell, the head of the CIA and the alleged source of the "intelligence" is a neocon's neocon. Personally oversaw the torture program in Iraq, and should never have been allowed to work in government ever again.
    What, are you on the side of the terrorists now?
    "The Patriarch"

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    What, are you on the side of the terrorists now?
    So far Sword's accused me of siding with terrorists, Russians, and the Chinese, so it's only a matter of time that he'll get around to angrily spitting something about Iran in my general direction

    I guess I feel an attack is imminent.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    So because we didn't do either it's pretty much our fault he was killed?
    It would also be the fault of whoever killed him.
    Whether they were justified would be a different question, but it would also be an irrelevant question to us, we have a duty to protect our people whether we should be in Iraq or not.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If the Mexican army starts killing our people then we should kill any of them that try and declare war on Mexico.
    Then we can take about 100 yards of Mexican territory and create a kill zone to keep all the invaders out.
    Sign the $#@! up, or shut the $#@! up tough guy.

    Really. Think about it the next time “we try and declare war on______” wants to come out of you. Human beings die in wars and it isn’t your imaginary monsters getting killed.

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