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Thread: The Donald's Assassination of General Soleimani – As Stupid as It Gets

  1. #1

    The Donald's Assassination of General Soleimani – As Stupid as It Gets

    By David Stockman
    David Stockman's Contra Corner
    January 9, 2020


    During more than a half-century of Washington watching we have seen stupidity rise from one height to yet another. But nothing – just plain nothing – compares to the the blithering stupidity of the Donald’s Iran “policy”, culminating in the mindless assassination of its top military leader and hero of the so-called Islamic Revolution, Major General Qassem Soleimani.

    To be sure, we don’t give a flying f*ck about the dead man himself. Like most generals of whatever army (including the US army), he was a cold-blooded, professional killer.

    And in this day and age of urban and irregular warfare and drone-based annihilation delivered by remote joystick, generals tend to kill more civilians than combatants. The dead civilian victims in their millions of U.S. generals reaching back to the 1960s surely attest to that.

    Then again, even the outright belligerents Soleimani did battle with over the decades were not exactly alms-bearing devotees of Mother Theresa, either. In sequential order, they were the lethally armed combatants mustered by Saddam Hussein, George W. Bush, the Sunni jihadists of ISIS and the Israeli and Saudi air forces, which at this very moment are raining high tech bombs and missiles on Iranian allies and proxies in Syria, Lebanon and Yemen.

    The only reason these years of combat are described in the mainstream media as evidence of Iranian terrorism propagated by its Quds forces is that the neocons have declared it so. That is, by Washington’s lights Iran is not allowed to have a foreign policy and its alliances with mainly Shiite co-religionists in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Yemen are alleged per se to be schemes of aggression and terror, warranting any and all retaliations including assassination of its highest officials.

    But that’s just colossal nonsense and imperialistic arrogance. The Assad government in Syria, the largest political party in Lebanon (Hezbollah), the dominant population of northern Yemen (Houthis) and a significant portion of the Iraqi armed forces represented by the Shiite militias (the PMF or Popular Mobilization Forces) are no less civilized and no more prone to sectarian violence than anybody else in this woebegone region. And the real head-choppers of ISIS and its imitators and rivals have all been Sunni jihadist insurrectionists, not Shiite-based governments and political parties.

    The truth is, America has no dog in the Shiite versus Sunni hunt, which has been going on for 1300 years in the region. And when it comes to spillover of those benighted forces into Europe or America, recent history is absolutely clear: 100% of all Islamic terrorist incidents in the US since they began in the 1990s were perpetrated or inspired by Sunni jihadists, not Iran or its Shiite allies and proxies in the region.

    So we needs be direct. The aggression in the Persian Gulf region during the last three decades has originated in the Washington DC nest of neocon vipers and among Bibi Netanyahu’s proxies, collaborators and assigns who rule the roost in the Imperial City and among both political parties. And the motivating force has all along been the malicious quest for regime change – first in Iraq and then in Syria and Iran.

    Needless to say, Washington instigated “regime change” tends to provoke a determined self-defense and a usually violent counter-reaction among the changees. So the truth is, the so-called Shiite crescent is not an alliance of terrorists inflicting wanton violence on the region; it’s a league of regime-change resisters and armed combatants who have elected to say “no” to Washington’s imperial schemes for remaking the middle eastern maps.

    So in taking out Soleimani, the usually befuddled and increasingly belligerent occupant of the Oval Office was not striking a blow against “terrorism”. He was just dramatically escalating Washington’s long-standing regime-change aggression in the region, thereby risking an outbreak of even greater violence and possibly a catastrophic conflagration in the Persian Gulf where one-fifth of the world’s oil traverses daily.

    And most certainly, the Donald has now crushed his own oft-repeated intent to withdraw American forces from the middle east and get out of the regime change business – the very platform upon which he campaigned in 2016. There are now upwards of 50,000 US military personnel in the immediate Persian Gulf region and tens of thousands of more contractors, proxies and mercenaries. After Friday’s reckless maneuver, that number can now only go up – and possibly dramatically.

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    In joy-sticking Soleimani while lounging in his plush digs at Mar-a-Lago, the Donald was also not avenging the innocent casualties of Iranian aggression – Americans or otherwise. He was just jamming another regime-change stick in the hornets nest of anti-Americanism in the region that Washington’s bloody interventions have spawned over the decades, and which will now intensify by orders of magnitude.

    Sometimes a picture does tell a thousand words, and this one from the funeral procession in Tehran yesterday surely makes a mockery of Secretary Pompeo’s idiotic claim that the middle east is now safer than before. If there was ever a case that this neocon knucklehead should be immediately dispatched to his hog and corn farm back in Kansas, this is surely it.

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    The larger point here is that Imperial Washington and its mainstream media megaphones have so egregiously and relentlessly vilified Iran and falsified the middle east narrative that the Iranian side of the story has been completely lost – literally airbrushed right off the pages of contemporary history in Stalineseque fashion.

    Not that the benighted, mullah-controlled Iranian regime is comprised of anything which resembles white hats. One of the great misfortunes of the last four decades is that the long-suffering people of Iran have not been able to throw-off the cultural and religious shackles imposed by this theocratic regime or escape the economic backwardness and incompetence of what is essentially rule by authoritarian clerics.

    But that’s exactly the crime of Washington’s neocon-inspired hostility and threats to the Iranian regime. It merely rekindles Iranian nationalism and causes the public to rally to the support of the regime, as is so evident at the current moment.

    Worse still, the underlying patriotic foundation of this pro-regime sentiment is completely lost on Imperial Washington owing to its false narrative about post-1979 history. Yet the fact is, in the eyes of the Iranian people the Quds forces and Soleimani have plausible claims to having been valiant defenders of the nation.

    In the original instance, of course, Soleimani earned his chops on the battlefield contending with the chemical weapons-dropping air force of Saddam Hussein during the 1980s. And Saddam was the invader whose chemical bombs achieved especially deadly accuracy against often barely armed teenage Iranian soldiers owing to spotting and targeting assistance rendered by the U.S. air force – a Washington assisted depredation that a whole generation of Iranians know all about, even if present day Washington feints ignorance.

    Then after Bush the Younger visited uninvited and unrequested Shock & Awe upon Baghdad and much of the Iraqi countryside, it transpired that the nation’s majority Shiite population didn’t cotton much to being “liberated” by Washington. Indeed, the more radical elements of the Iraqi Shiite community in Sadr City and other towns of central and south Iraq took up arms during 2003-2011 against what they perceived to be the American “occupiers” because, well, it was their country.

    Needless to say, their Shiite kinsman in Iran were more than ready to give aid and comfort to the Iraqi Shiite in their struggle against what by then was perceived as Iran’s own mortal enemy. After all, a full year before Bush the Younger launched the utterly folly of the second gulf war in March 2003, his demented neocon advisors and speechwriters, led by the insufferable David Frum, had concocted a bogeyman called the Axis of Evil, which included Iran and marked it as next in line for Shock & Awe.

    But the idea that the Iraqi people and especially its majority Shiite population would have been dancing in the streets to welcome the US military save for the insidious interference of Iran is just baseless War Party propaganda.

    Stated differently, Washington sent 158,000 lethally armed fighters into a country that had never threatened America’s homeland security or harbored its enemies, and had no capacity to do so in any event. But contrary to the glib assurances of Rumsfeld, Cheney and the rest of the neocon jackals around Bush, these US fighters soon came to be widely viewed as “invaders”, not liberators, and met resistance from a wide variety of Iraqi elements including remnants of Saddam’s government and military, radicalized Sunni jihadists and a motley array of Shiite politicians, clerics and militias.

    Foremost among these was the Sadr clan which emerged as the tribune of the the dispossessed Shiite communities in the south and Baghdad. They rose to prominence after Bush the Elder urged the Shiite to rise up against Saddam after the 1991 Gulf War, and then left them dangling in the wind.

    No US support materialized as the regime’s indiscriminate crackdown on the population systematically arrested and killed tens of thousands of Shiites and destroyed Shiite shrines, centers of learning, towns and villages. According to eyewitness accounts, Baathist tanks were painted with messages like “No Shiites after today,” people were hanged from electric poles, and tanks ran over women and children and towed bodies through the streets.

    From this horror and brutality emerged Mohammad Mohammad Sadeq al-Sadr, the founder of the Sadrist movement that today, under the leadership of his son Muqtada, constitutes Iraq’s most powerful political movement. After the collapse of the Baathist regime in 2003, the Sadrist movement formally established its own militia, known as the Jaysh al-Mahdi, or the Mahdi Army.

    The vast Shiite underclass needed protection, social services and leadership, and the Sadrist movement stepped into these gaps by reactivating Sadeq al-Sadr’s network. In the course of US occupation, the Mahdi Army’s ranks of supporters, members and fighters swelled, particularly as sectarian conflict intensified and discontent towards the occupation grew out of frustration with the lack of security and basis services. At one point the Mahdi Army numbered more than 60,000 fighters, and especially as Iraq degenerated into total sectarian chaos after 2005, it became a deadly thorn in the side of US forces occupying a country where they were distinctly unwelcome.


    But the Mahdi Army was homegrown; it was Arab, not Persian, and it was fighting for its own homes and communities, not the Iranians, the Quds or Soleimani. In fact, the Sadrists strongly opposed the Iranian influence among other Shiite dissident groups including the brutal Badr Brigade and the Iran-aligned Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution (SCIRI). As the above study further noted,

    Iraqis today refer to the Sadrist Movement’s Peace Brigades as the “rebellious” militias, because of their refusal to submit not only to Iran, but also to the federal government and religious establishment. Muqtada al-Sadr has oriented his organization around Iraqi nationalistic sentiments and derided the Iran-aligned militias. In line with the true political outlook of his father and his followers, Muqtada’s supporters chanted anti-Iranian slogans and stormed the offices of the Dawa Party, ISCI and the Badr Brigade when they protested against the government in May 2016.

    As it happened, the overwhelming share of the 603 US servicemen the Pentagon claims to have been killed by Iranian proxies were actually victims of the Mahdi Army uprisings during 2003-2007. These attacks were led by the above mentioned Iraqi nationalist firebrand and son of the movements founder, Muqtada al-Sadr.

    In fact, however, the surge in U.S. deaths at that time was the direct result of subsequently disgraced General David Petraeus’ infamous “surge” campaign. Among others, it targeted al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army in the hope of weakening it. Beginning in late April 2007, the US launched dozens of military operations aimed solely at capturing or killing Mahdi Army officers, causing the Mahdi Army to strongly resist those raids and impose mounting casualties on US troops.

    So amidst the fog of two decades of DOD and neocon propaganda, how did Iran and Soleimani get tagged over and over with the “killing Americans” charge, as if they were attacking innocent bystanders in lower Manhattan on 9/11?

    It’s just the hoary old canard that Iran was the source of the powerful roadside bombs called Explosively Formed Penetrators (EFPs) that were being used by many of the Shiite militias, as well as the Sunni jihadists in Anbar province and the west. Yet that claim was debunked more than a decade ago by evidence that the Mahdi Army and other Shiite militias were getting their weapons not just from the Iranians but from wherever they could, as well as manufacturing their own.

    As the estimable Iran expert, Gareth Porter, recently noted:

    The command’s effort to push its line about Iran and EFPs encountered one embarrassing revelation after another. In February 2007 a US command briefing asserted that the EFPs had “characteristics unique to being manufactured in Iran.” However, after NBC correspondent Jane Arraf confronted the deputy commander of coalition troops, Lt. Gen. Ray Odierno, with the fact that a senior military official had acknowledged to her that US troops had been discovering many sites manufacturing EFPs in Iraq, Odierno was forced to admit that it was true.

    Then in late February 2007, US troops found another cache of parts and explosives for EFPs near Baghdad, which included shipments of PVC tubes for the canisters that contradicted its claims. They had come not from factories in Iran, but from factories in the UAE and other Arab countries, including Iraq itself. That evidence clearly suggested that the Shiites were procuring EFP parts on the commercial market rather than getting them from Iran.

    Although the military briefing by the command in February 2007 pointed to cross-border weapons smuggling, it actually confirmed in one of its slides that it was being handled by “Iraqi extremist group members” rather than by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). And as Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch, the US commander for southern Iraq, admitted in a July 6 press briefing, his troops had not “captured anybody that we can directly tie back to Iran.”


    On the other hand, what the Iranian Quds forces have actually accomplished in Iraq and Syria has been virtually expunged from the mainstream narrative. To wit, they have been the veritable tip of the spear in the eradication of the Islamic State.

    Indeed, in Iraq it was the wobbly Iraqi national army that Washington stood up at a cost of billions, which turned tail and ran when ISIS emerged in Anbar province in 2014. So doing, they left behind thousands of US armored vehicles, mobile artillery and even tanks, as well as massive troves of guns and ammo, which enabled the Islamic State to briefly thrive and subjugate several million people across the Euphrates Valley.

    It was also Washington that trained, equipped, armed and funded the so-called anti-Assad rebels in Syria, which so weakened and distracted Damascus that that the Islamic State was briefly able to fill the power vacuum and impose its barbaric rule on the citizens of Raqqa and its environs. And again, it did so in large part with weaponry captured from or sold to ISIS by the so-called moderate rebels.

    To the contrary, the panic and unraveling in Iraq during 2014-2015 was stopped and reversed when the Iranians at the invitation of Baghdad’s Shiite government helped organize and mobilize the Iraqi Shiite militias, which eventually chased ISIS out of Mosul and Anbar.

    Likewise, outside of the northern border areas liberated by the Syrian Kurds, it was the Shiite alliance of Assad, Hezbollah and the Iranian Quds forces that rid Syria of the ISIS plague.

    Yes, the US air force literally incinerated two great cities temporarily occupied by the Islamic State – Mosul and Raqqa. But it was the Shiite fighters who were literally fighting for their lives, homes and hearth who cleared that land of a barbaric infestation that had been spawned and enabled by the very Washington neocons who are now dripping red in tooth and claw.

    So we revert to the Donald’s act of utter stupidity. On the one hand, it is now evident that the reason Soleimani was in Baghdad was to deliver an official response from Tehran to a recent Saudi de-escalation offer. And that’s by the word of the very prime minister that Washington has stood up in the rump state of Iraq and who has now joined a majority of the Iraqi parliament in demanding that Iraq’s putative liberators – after expending trillions in treasure and blood – leave the country forthwith:

    Before the vote Prime Minister Adil Abdul-Mahdi told the parliament that he was scheduled to meet with Soleimani a day after his arrival to receive a letter from Iran to Iraq in response to a de-escalation offer Saudi Arabia had made. The US assassinated Soleimani before the letter could be delivered by him. Abdul-Mahdi also said that Trump had asked him to mediate between the US and Iran. Did he do that to trap Soleimani? It is no wonder then that Abdul-Mahdi is fuming.

    At the same time, the positive trends that were in motion in the region just days ago – ISIS gone, Syria closing in on the remaining jihadists, Saudi Arabia and Iran tentatively exploring a more peaceful modus vivendi, the Yemen genocide winding to a close – may now literally go up in smoke. As the always sagacious Pat Buchanan observed today,

    What a difference a presidential decision can make.

    Two months ago, crowds were in the streets of Iraq protesting Iran’s dominance of their politics. Crowds were in the streets of Iran cursing that regime for squandering the nation’s resources on imperial adventures in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen. Things were going America’s way.

    Now it is the Americans who are the targets of protests.

    Over three days, crowds numbering in the hundreds of thousands and even millions have packed Iraqi and Iranian streets and squares to pay tribute to Soleimani and to curse the Americans who killed him.


    We have long believed that there is nothing stupider in Washington than the neocon policy mafia that has wrecked such unspeakable havoc on the middle east as well as upon American servicemen and taxpayers who have been marched time and again into the jaws of their folly.

    But, now, the Donald has single-handedly given even neocon stupidity a run for the money.


    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/01/...id-as-it-gets/
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  3. #2
    WOW. A well researched and powerful article. Thanks for posting.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    During more than a half-century of Washington watching we have seen stupidity rise from one height to yet another. But nothing – just plain nothing – compares to the the blithering stupidity of the Donald’s Iran “policy”, culminating in the mindless assassination of its top military leader and hero of the so-called Islamic Revolution, Major General Qassem Soleimani.
    How can we know that this assassination is stoopid, if we don’t even known what is really about?
    Is it part of Trump’s campaign strategy to be re-elected in 2020?!?

    Is it to curb the massive Iraqi protests against the corrupt regime?

    The drone strike that assassinated General Soleimani on 3 January happened at the Baghdad International Airport (within 100 miles from Iran’s border).
    Why didn’t Iraq shoot down the drone?!?


    Qasem Soleimani was a supporter of the US-backed Arab Spring since it began in late 2010.
    In a May 2011 speech in Qom, Soleimani declared that the uprisings “provide our revolution with the greatest opportunities … we must witness victory in Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria. This is the fruit of the Islamic Revolution”.

    Soleimani has also supported Syria’s president Assad (with his British banker wife).

    In the summer of 2018, President Donald made another one of his famous BS tweets to Iranian President Hassan Rouhani:
    NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!
    In response, Soleimani tore into Trump with unusual bombast in a speech:
    The U.S. president … made some idiotic comments on Twitter. It is beneath the dignity of the president of the great Islamic country of Iran to respond, so I will respond, as a soldier of our great nation. You threaten us with a measure that the world has not seen before. First of all, it has been over a year since Trump became U.S. president, but that man’s rhetoric is still that of a casino, of a bar. He talks to the world in the style of a bartender or a casino manager.

    Mr. Trump, the gambler! […] You are well aware of our power and capabilities in the region. You know how powerful we are in asymmetrical warfare. Come, we are waiting for you. We are the real men on the scene, as far as you are concerned. You know that a war would mean the loss of all your capabilities. You may start the war, but we will be the ones to determine its end.
    It’s unfortunate that Soleimani forgot to mention that Donald Trump has in fact been a failed casino manager: https://ctc.usma.edu/qassem-soleiman...onal-strategy/
    (http://archive.is/Cx1Cy)


    Not only Qasem Soleimani was killed in the drone attack, but also the Iraqis Mohammed Reza Al-Jaberi (senior Iraqi commander and head of public affairs of the Hashd), and Abu Mahdi Al-Muhandis (deputy chairman of the Hashd): http://www.renegadetribune.com/solei...f-war-on-iran/
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

  5. #4
    Think so?

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Think so?

    [vidE[/video]
    What I think is that you've lost your damned mind and and are now resorting to posting self-serving content from the very same Evangelicals that wanted us to invade Iraq in the first place. I guess you didn't read anything but the headline, because this is third sentence.

    To be sure, we don’t give a flying f*ck about the dead man himself. Like most generals of whatever army (including the US army), he was a cold-blooded, professional killer.
    This is the fourth sentence.

    Like most generals of whatever army (including the US army), he was a cold-blooded, professional killer.
    What are you trying to tell us here? Because no matter how I look at it, Trump had no constitutional right to kill him. This is a war crime.
    Last edited by angelatc; 01-09-2020 at 10:12 AM.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    What I think is that you've lost your damned mind and and are now resorting to posting self-serving content from the very same Evangelicals that wanted us to invade Iraq in the first place. I guess you didn't read anything but the headline, because this is third sentence.



    This is the fourth sentence.



    What are you trying to tell us here? Because no matter how I look at it, Trump had no constitutional right to kill him. This is a war crime.
    You should probably watch the video, instead of turning it off after four sentences.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You should probably watch the video, instead of turning it off after four sentences.
    I watched it.

    Cliff notes: "I am an Iranian and I know things. This guy was a turrorist and he killed lots of people, so it's ok that he's dead. I've got alot of anecdotal twitter tweets that say so and in Iran we are so happy we are going to party like it's 1999 and call it "Thanks Donald Trump day".
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.





    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You should probably watch the video, instead of turning it off after four sentences.
    First, I do not do video. I didn't watch a single second of it.

    Second - Ron Paul. I do not care if she says she has video of her and her convent being gang-raped and beheaded by sex-trafficking CIA agents masked as Iranian intelligence officers in Israel under Soleimani's orders.

    Trump had no authority to order the hit. Seeing you defending this with such passion leads me to believe you've lost your mind.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    First, I do not do video. I didn't watch a single second of it.

    Second - Ron Paul. I do not care if she says she has video of her and her convent being gang-raped and beheaded by sex-trafficking CIA agents masked as Iranian intelligence officers in Israel under Soleimani's orders.

    Trump had no authority to order the hit. Seeing you defending this with such passion leads me to believe you've lost your mind.
    Here's a great article by Judge Nap, Angela. He points out that even terrorists - or whatever they call them- have rights to due process

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/01/...assassination/

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    I watched it.

    Cliff notes: "I am an Iranian and I know things. This guy was a turrorist and he killed lots of people, so it's ok that he's dead. I've got alot of anecdotal twitter tweets that say so and in Iran we are so happy we are going to party like it's 1999 and call it "Thanks Donald Trump day".
    Thank you. This is interesting study in cognitive dissonance to be sure. Dannno is telling us that Soleimani was an evil deep state operative that was openly assassinated by Donald Trump, and this anonymous woman is verifying that he was, in fact evil.

    As bizarre as that statement is, nobody is even disputing any of that because that's not the relevant point. The point is that no president has the right to order politically expedient assassinations.
    Last edited by angelatc; 01-09-2020 at 10:43 AM.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Here's a great article by Judge Nap, Angela. He points out that even terrorists - or whatever they call them- have rights to due process

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/01/...assassination/
    Of course they do. These are Ron Paul forums. We know this. At least, I thought we did.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    I watched it.

    Cliff notes: "I am an Iranian and I know things. This guy was a turrorist and he killed lots of people, so it's ok that he's dead. I've got alot of anecdotal twitter tweets that say so and in Iran we are so happy we are going to party like it's 1999 and call it "Thanks Donald Trump day".
    Why didn't your summary include the fact that he recently murdered and tortured 1,600 Iranians protesting in their country??

    Could that be why a lot of Iranians don't like him?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The point is that no president has the right to order politically expedient assassinations.
    Was General Soleimani ever in the US? If he had ever crossed US state lines, the assassination could be constitutionally justified by the Commerce Clause.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Why didn't your summary include the fact that he recently murdered and tortured 1,600 Iranians protesting in their country??

    Could that be why a lot of Iranians don't like him?
    Look Danno...I don't mourn his death. What kind of precedent do you think this sets for an already lawless International system that the US perpetuates? I thought the Donald was supposed to be changing that. Who else do you want to target? Take your pick because their are thousands just like him in this world. It's B.S.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.





    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Why didn't your summary include the fact that he recently murdered and tortured 1,600 Iranians protesting in their country??

    Could that be why a lot of Iranians don't like him?

    Could that be why a lot of Iranians don't like him?
    Where is the evidence that a lot of Iranians don't like him? i still haven't found the evidence for that claim. The only ones cheering his death are the ones who are pushing a regime change.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Look Danno...I don't mourn his death. What kind of precedent do you think this sets for an already lawless International system that the US perpetuates? I thought the Donald was supposed to be changing that. Who else do you want to target? Take your pick because their are thousands just like him in this world. It's B.S.
    Consider that if I am right (and I certainly believe I am), that a significant amount of the lawlessness and corruption is due to the deep state/CIA. This guy was a deep state/CIA asset who was trying to start a war with our country and who even the Mullah's secretly wanted to get rid of.. but he embedded himself so far none of them could take him out without looking really, really bad.. So Trump made a deal with them to help them out. Now Trump will make peace agreements with Iran, and eventually lift sanctions, and this will all lead to much more peaceful relations.

    Now Iran is going to behave much better. Iran will be great again because Trump is in power and he isn't going to let the deep state keep them down any longer.

    Trump will arrest the deep state pedophiles who make up the satanic cabal that controls our country.

    This will significantly cut down on our problems in the longterm.

    The debate over whether taking out a terrorist who had killed thousands, including Iranian civilians, Iraqis and Americans - and whose own country wanted him gone.. ya, I guess it's a debate worth having in a more perfect world, but I don't think it is so egregious that it is going to outweigh all of the benefits coming from removing all these deep state actors from various threatening governments, including our own.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Consider that if I am right (and I certainly believe I am), that a significant amount of the lawlessness and corruption is due to the deep state/CIA. This guy was a deep state/CIA asset who was trying to start a war with our country and who even the Mullah's secretly wanted to get rid of.. but he embedded himself so far none of them could take him out without looking really, really bad.. So Trump made a deal with them to help them out. Now Trump will make peace agreements with Iran, and eventually lift sanctions, and this will all lead to much more peaceful relations.

    Now Iran is going to behave much better. Iran will be great again because Trump is in power and he isn't going to let the deep state keep them down any longer.

    Trump will arrest the deep state pedophiles who make up the satanic cabal that controls our country.

    This will significantly cut down on our problems in the longterm.

    The debate over whether taking out a terrorist who had killed thousands, including Iranian civilians, Iraqis and Americans - and whose own country wanted him gone.. ya, I guess it's a debate worth having in a more perfect world, but I don't think it is so egregious that it is going to outweigh all of the benefits coming from removing all these deep state actors from various governments.


    Now Iran is going to behave much better. Iran will be great again because Trump is in power and he isn't going to let the deep state keep them down any longer.
    After killing their general? you think Iran is going to bend over to America and Israel while they are threatening them to get out of the region and Syria? Never.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Where is the evidence that a lot of Iranians don't like him? i still haven't found the evidence for that claim. The only ones cheering his death are the ones who are pushing a regime change.
    What's wrong with regime change if it is coming from within? The Iranian regime isn't that great. But they may get a lot better now that this guy is gone.

    I think every country in the world should change their regime from within, to a more free regime, or get rid of it entirely.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    What's wrong with regime change if it is coming from within? The Iranian regime isn't that great. But they may get a lot better now that this guy is gone.

    I think every country in the world should change their regime from within, to a more free regime, or get rid of it entirely.

    What's wrong with regime change if it is coming from within?
    Are you this serious?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    What's wrong with regime change if it is coming from within?
    Are you this serious?
    Ya, not sure if you are aware, but most people here don't like governments. Do you like your government?

    Do you like the US government? Do you think we should change it? Then you are for regime change.

    I like Trump because he is removing the regime that has controlled this country for over a century.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Look Danno...I don't mourn his death. What kind of precedent do you think this sets for an already lawless International system that the US perpetuates? I thought the Donald was supposed to be changing that. Who else do you want to target? Take your pick because their are thousands just like him in this world. It's B.S.
    I agree. But your intellectual side might appreciate this article - https://spectator.us/case-genghis-trump/
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, not sure if you are aware, but most people here don't like governments. Do you like your government?

    Do you like the US government? Do you think we should change it? Then you are for regime change.

    I like Trump because he is removing the regime that has controlled this country for over a century.
    Careful what you wish for. Remember, the president had no constitutional authority to order the assassination.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  26. #23
    Who would have ever thunk that Danno would be among several newby members led by a Trump Shill that would create a narrative paradigm shift at Ron Paul Forums where "The means justify the Ends".
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.





    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Careful what you wish for. Remember, the president had no constitutional authority to order the assassination.
    Uh, ya, pretty sure if the CIA assassinated Trump they wouldn't have any Constitutional authority either. But they would still do it anyway.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    What's wrong with regime change if it is coming from within? .
    Ok, I am, for once speechless. Let me explain where ya lost me here. Trump assassinating a high-ranking official in a foreign government isn't ''coming from within.''
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh, ya, pretty sure if the CIA assassinated Trump they wouldn't have any Constitutional authority either. But they would still do it anyway.
    What if an Iranian assassin gets him. There are alot of twitter tweets that think he's a terrorist. You ok with that? Sounds logical to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.





    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Who would have ever thunk that Danno would be among several newby members led by a Trump Shill that would create a narrative paradigm shift at Ron Paul Forums where "The means justify the Ends".
    A lot of original people here believed that 9/11 was an inside job that was carried out by the elite who party at Bohemian Grove where they perform satanic sacrifices. They are a satanic cabal who control the banking and monetary system, and are pushing for one world government and world communism.

    They have been succeeding for a long time.

    Now they are not. Because Trump.

    Taking out this group of people is IMPERATIVE if we want freedom in the future. If you want to go back to being ruled by those people, then keep trying to play the rules of the game while your true enemy breaks them at every turn.

    I want a free society as much, maybe more than you do. We have to get there first. This is the journey. There are dragons to defeat.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh, ya, pretty sure if the CIA assassinated Trump they wouldn't have any Constitutional authority either. But they would still do it anyway.
    And it would also be illegal.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    And it would also be illegal.
    Yep, it wouldn't stop them though.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh, ya, pretty sure if the CIA assassinated Trump they wouldn't have any Constitutional authority either. But they would still do it anyway.
    Is it fair for me to summarize your position as '' Yes it was illegal, but it's ok because the President did it,'' or is ''Yes it was illegal but it's ok because Trump did it,'' more accurate then?

    Is ursurping the Constitution something that only Trump can do, or is it a power we want all presidents to have?
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

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