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Thread: Iraqi PM: Soleimani was in Iraq to discuss Iran-Saudi de-escalation when he was killed

  1. #1

    Exclamation Iraqi PM: Soleimani was in Iraq to discuss Iran-Saudi de-escalation when he was killed

    Who stands to lose most if Iran-Saudi tensions got de-escalated?
    If this is confirmed to be part of some conspiracy to stop de-escalation between Iran and Saudi and keep wars temperature high, Deep Neocons could be in big trouble in 2020 elections.


    Iraqi prime minister says Qassem Soleimani was in Iraq to 'discuss de-escalating tensions between Iran and Saudis' when he was killed - and claims Trump had asked for help mediating talks after embassy attack

    • Iraq's caretaker prime minister, Adel Abdul Mahdi, told his parliament in Baghdad on Sunday that US strike on Soleimani was a 'political assassination'
    • Abdul Mahdi claimed that Soleimani was due to meet with him on the same day that he was killed by a US drone near the Baghdad airport early on Friday
    • The outgoing Iraqi leader says that Soleimani was supposed to bring him Iran's response to a Saudi proposal for de-escalating regional tensions
    • Saudi Arabia, a regional rival, blames Iran for an attack on the kingdom's oil facilities in September
    • Abdul Mahdi also claims that President Trump called him and asked him to mediate talks with Iran after the US embassy in Baghdad was nearly overrun
    • Supporters of the Shiite group Kataib Hezbollah scaled the walls and barreled through security at the US embassy in Baghdad on Tuesday
    • Abdul Mahdi said he personally intervened to defuse the embassy crisis and that the American president thanked him for doing so

    By Ariel Zilber For Dailymail.com and Associated Press and Afp

    Published: 19:44 EST, 5 January 2020

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...airstrike.html



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  3. #2
    We all know how much his word is worth now that it can't be confirmed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We all know how much his word is worth now that it can't be confirmed.
    Well we know how much worth Trump's word whenever Trump opens his mouth or tweet for that matter.

  5. #4

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    The Saudi's set him up...
    wouldn’t surprise me.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    The Saudi's set him up...
    That's how I would do it , only I would expect the prey too smart to take the bait .
    Do something Danke

  8. #7
    Any real war (in appearance, at least) will be between Iran and the Saudis, not the US and Iran. Spoiler alert: Saudis lose. Something has to happen to publicly to act as a cover story to break the Saudi>US petrodollar standard.

    A paraphrase quote from a high Saudi "royal" some years ago: "My grandfather rode a camel. My father rode in a car. I ride in a Mercedes. My grandchildren will ride a camel."
    Last edited by devil21; 01-06-2020 at 10:38 AM.
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    The Saudi's set him up...
    That would explain quite a bit.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    That's how I would do it , only I would expect the prey too smart to take the bait .
    As I said in another thread, it is quite possible he was willing to martyr himself to advance his cause. He was not a young man.

  12. #10
    Trump Assassinated the Iranian Regime's Top CIA Asset...
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Top-CIA-Asset


    It makes sense that the Iraqi PM is CIA also, and they want to evict US troops because the CIA is no longer in control of the US government and the US military, thanks to Trump.

    Also, my thread mentions that Soleimani was carrying a bioweapon to Iraq, he was not going there to make peace.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #11
    I don't know. Because I don't trust the MSM!

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
    I don't know. Because I don't trust the MSM!
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump Assassinated the Iranian Regime's Top CIA Asset...
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Top-CIA-Asset


    It makes sense that the Iraqi PM is CIA also, and they want to evict US troops because the CIA is no longer in control of the US government and the US military, thanks to Trump.

    Also, my thread mentions that Soleimani was carrying a bioweapon to Iraq, he was not going there to make peace.
    I am sorry nobody is reading your latest chapter of "everybody and everything is the CIA!", but please stop spamming the thread.

  16. #14
    Soleimani Was in Baghdad on Mission for Saudi Peace
    Iraqi PM says Soleimani was supposed to deliver reply to Saudi message
    Jason Ditz - January 5, 2020

    On Thursday night, the US assassinated top Iranian Gen. Qassam Soleimani in a drone strike at Baghdad International Airport. His arrival was actually part of ongoing diplomatic efforts, according to Iraqi PM Adel Abdul-Mahdi.

    Soleimani’s visit was related to well-documented Saudi attempts at diplomacy to ease tensions with Iran. The Saudis had dispatched a message of peace to Iran, with Iraq acting as an intermediary. Soleimani was coming to Iraq to deliver the Iranian government’s reply.

    The US assassination, then, undercut the peace effort to an enormous level. Iraq was keen to facilitate peace between its two neighbors, hopefully to calm down US threats against Iran. Instead, the US undercut the entire process.
    ...
    More: https://news.antiwar.com/2020/01/05/...r-saudi-peace/
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  17. #15
    Soleimani was to deliver Tehran's reply to Saudi de-escalation letter when killed: Iraqi PM
    Sunday - 05 January 2020

    Iraq's Caretaker Prime Minister Adel Abdul-Mahdi has said that Lieutenant General Qassem Soleimani was set to deliver Tehran's reply to an earlier Saudi message regarding de-escalation talks mediated by Baghdad when he was assassinated.

    Abdul-Mahdi made the remarks during an extraordinary parliamentary session in the capital which led to the adoption of a law demanding the withdrawal of US forces from the country on Sunday, the National Iraqi News Agency reported.

    The premier said that he was due to meet Soleimani at 8:30 am local time on Friday before the US assassinated the general a few hours earlier.

    The revelations come as Baghdad has been mediating talks between Tehran and Riyadh following a recent uptick of tensions the region.

    Sunday's parliamentary vote was held in response to Washington's Friday airstrikes targeting Soleimani and his comrades.

    Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the second-in-command of Iraq's Popular Mobilization Units (PMU) was also killed in the attack.
    ...
    The Sunday vote comes as many Iraqi figures and parliamentary factions have been long demanding the withdrawal of US troops from the country, specifically following a series of unclaimed airstrikes on PMU forces.

    Abdul-Mahdi also revealed in his Sunday remarks that Washington had confirmed to Baghdad that Tel Aviv was behind a number of the attacks.

    "America informed us that Israel bombed the warehouses of the PMU last summer," he said, calling on the parliament to take all measures to end the presence of foreign forces in Iraq.
    ...
    More: https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/...o-Saudi-letter
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    The Saudi's set him up...
    Maybe. Or Trump’s neoconservative advisors (Kushner, Pence, Pompeo, Graham, Rubio) took advantage of knowing about it...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    It's not surprising that Iranian allies would attempt to come up with a story that makes their guy look like a saint and Trump look evil.

    All we have is their word.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's not surprising that Iranian allies would attempt to come up with a story that makes their guy look like a saint and Trump look evil.

    All we have is their word.
    You never know, but as Ron and Daniel mentioned in today’s Liberty Report, he seemed comfortable coming to Iraq. And how would anyone know when and where to target him if this wasn’t a well known and planned trip? He probably felt safer traveling with his Iraqi counterpart.

    They also mentioned on the Liberty Report that some establishment reports are coming out now that Trump’s advisers proposed this assassination as a crazy, extreme, throw away idea in hopes of getting some other less extreme actions. And they were surprised that Trump agreed with it.

    The options included striking Iranian ships, missile facilities, or Iranian-backed militia groups in Iraq, The Times said.

    The officials offered the option of killing Soleimani mainly to make the others seem more appealing, which The Times described as a common tactic for US officials advising presidents.
    ...
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...leimani-2020-1
    WASHINGTON — In the chaotic days leading to the death of Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, Iran’s most powerful commander, top American military officials put the option of killing him — which they viewed as the most extreme response to recent Iranian-led violence in Iraq — on the menu they presented to President Trump.

    They didn’t think he would take it. In the wars waged since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Pentagon officials have often offered improbable options to presidents to make other possibilities appear more palatable.

    After initially rejecting the Suleimani option on Dec. 28 and authorizing airstrikes on an Iranian-backed Shiite militia group instead, a few days later Mr. Trump watched, fuming, as television reports showed Iranian-backed attacks on the American Embassy in Baghdad, according to Defense Department and administration officials.

    By late Thursday, the president had gone for the extreme option. Top Pentagon officials were stunned.

    But some officials voiced private skepticism about the rationale for a strike on General Suleimani, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of American troops over the years. According to one United States official, the new intelligence indicated “a normal Monday in the Middle East” — Dec. 30 — and General Suleimani’s travels amounted to “business as usual.”

    That official described the intelligence as thin and said that General Suleimani’s attack was not imminent because of communications the United States had between Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and General Suleimani showing that the ayatollah had not yet approved any plans by the general for an attack. The ayatollah, according to the communications, had asked General Suleimani to come to Tehran for further discussions at least a week before his death.

    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Vice President Mike Pence were two of the most hawkish voices arguing for a response to Iranian aggression, according to administration officials.
    ...
    More: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/04/u...suleimani.html
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    You never know, but as Ron and Daniel mentioned in today’s Liberty Report, he seemed comfortable coming to Iraq.
    He was comfortable going all over the Middle East and he thought that Iran was in control of Iraq and that Trump wouldn't dare to buck the deepstate and target him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    And how would anyone know when and where to target him if this wasn’t a well known and planned trip? He probably felt safer traveling with his Iraqi counterpart.
    They had been tracking him for years.

    Precision drone strikes rely on detailed intelligence, and Soleimani was kept under near-constant surveillance by US, Saudi and Israeli security forces.
    The New York Times reported that the Pentagon used highly classified information from informants, electronic intercepts, reconnaissance aircraft and other surveillance techniques to track the Iranian general’s movements.

    More at: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...red-drone.html




    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    They also mentioned on the Liberty Report that some establishment reports are coming out now that Trump’s advisers proposed this assassination as a crazy, extreme, throw away idea in hopes of getting some other less extreme actions. And they were surprised that Trump agreed with it.
    That's not worth a thing but if we pretend to believe it then it would only indicate that the deepstate didn't want this.
    The response the deepstate wanted was a strike in Iran that would start an actual war and they wanted Suleimani alive to continue creating provocations to get it.
    Iran's leaders thought they could do the bidding of the deepstate and be protected and Trump let them know that they would not be safe.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    The truth may never be known.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  24. #21
    This smells like BS. He was a general. Not a diplomat.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by revgen View Post
    This smells like BS. He was a general. Not a diplomat.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Who stands to lose most if Iran-Saudi tensions got de-escalated?
    If this is confirmed to be part of some conspiracy to stop de-escalation between Iran and Saudi and keep wars temperature high, Deep Neocons could be in big trouble in 2020 elections.
    A couple of things.

    Firstly, it is not established that he was "assassinated". To assume this is to assume that killing him was unjust. The evidence seems to suggest that he was a very bad actor, an enemy combatant whose deliberate actions validly placed him in the crosshairs.

    Secondly, it makes no sense that anyone would have him killed with the objective in mind of maintaining tensions between the parties in question. Unless the false case can be convincingly made that the Saudis had Soleimani offed or that Iran did so to make it look as if Saudis did it, I see no reason that either party would be stupid enough to allow this event to derail deescalation.

    Thirdly, the United States has claimed Soleimani's head, which in itself demolishes the notion that the act was carried forth for the stated purposes. If anything, the act would stand to better solidify relations between the pair, assuming that the efforts are sincere on both sides.

    At this time, I am inclined to believe that that boy placed himself in danger by poking at the sleeping tiger, which them awakened, took exception, and resolved the issue without equivocation.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    Pray for reset.


  27. #24
    This is an interesting twist.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    A couple of things.

    Firstly, it is not established that he was "assassinated". To assume this is to assume that killing him was unjust. The evidence seems to suggest that he was a very bad actor, an enemy combatant whose deliberate actions validly placed him in the crosshairs.

    Secondly, it makes no sense that anyone would have him killed with the objective in mind of maintaining tensions between the parties in question. Unless the false case can be convincingly made that the Saudis had Soleimani offed or that Iran did so to make it look as if Saudis did it, I see no reason that either party would be stupid enough to allow this event to derail deescalation.

    Thirdly, the United States has claimed Soleimani's head, which in itself demolishes the notion that the act was carried forth for the stated purposes. If anything, the act would stand to better solidify relations between the pair, assuming that the efforts are sincere on both sides.

    At this time, I am inclined to believe that that boy placed himself in danger by poking at the sleeping tiger, which them awakened, took exception, and resolved the issue without equivocation.
    1. That's not what assassination means... lol.

    2. So assassinating (yes, assassinating) a top official of a foreign country that has already been subjected with sanctions for decades, which are an act of war, should... not deter deescalation? How does that make any sense? Saudi Arabia and the US are allies, you know.

    3. I don't think Trump had Soleimani killed to prevent peace between Saudi and Iran, he just did it to get more votes from the Oorah retard wing of the Republican party

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Maybe. Or Trump’s neoconservative advisors (Kushner, Pence, Pompeo, Graham, Rubio) took advantage of knowing about it...
    Meh... possible, but this paints Trump as a feckless victim, which I am hard pressed to buy. Possibly, Trump is one of Themme and everything we see is pure theatre. The Donald is treading a remarkably fine line such that I STILL do not know whether he is to be trusted. If he's a bad guy, I have to hand it to him for his virtuoso performance in this regard. Most have neither the brains to sort the role to this level of detail, or the patience to see it through. If he is a bad guy, he represents dedication to an objective that the number of others of equal commitment since the days of Sumer cn probably be counted on one hand, possibly with fingers left over. With that said, I will still not commit my trust to him. This has been quite the wild ride.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    Pray for reset.


  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    1. That's not what assassination means... lol.
    From the Oxford etymological dictionary:
    assassinate (v.)

    1610s, from past participle stem of Medieval Latin assassinare (see assassin). "Assassinate means to kill wrongfully by surprise, suddenly, or by secret assault" [Century Dictionary]. Of reputations, characters, etc., from 1620s. Related: Assassinated; assassinating.

    Please address your attention to the bold, italicized, underlined term. Now go back to what I wrote. The assumption has been by some that he was wrongfully killed. That assumption is eminently questionable and has in no way been established as being truth, at least no to my eyes.

    2.
    So assassinating (yes, assassinating) a top official of a foreign country that has already been subjected with sanctions for decades, which are an act of war, should... not deter deescalation? How does that make any sense? Saudi Arabia and the US are allies, you know.

    Let us examine this. If we assume, per your implications of tone and word, that both the Saudis and Iranians are in fact and indeed sincere about not standing at one another's throats and the USA who is a foe of one and an uneasy ally of the other (again assuming those nations are what they appear and all the Wahhabist bull$#@! is not just more political theater), then what I have written makes strong, if not conclusively convincing, sense. Brothers in Islam attempt to mend fences and America steps in and murders one of the envoys of peace. What YOU need to explain is how that is likely to turn those brothers at each other's throats and not leave them eyeballing the captain who has proudly proclaimed the head in question.

    Good luck with that, but my mind is open to persuasion.

    3. I don't think Trump had Soleimani killed to prevent peace between Saudi and Iran, he just did it to get more votes from the Oorah retard wing of the Republican party
    To all appearances, and I have yet to see anything convincing that contradicts, he was a very bad actor. We are living in a world of utter $#@!, courtesy of the nearly universal corruption that is humanity. It is SO bad, that ever since about 1900, the technological levers given men in their various forms have lead not to ever greater peace, but increased barbarity and efficiency in the commission of the worst crimes imaginable.
    Last edited by osan; 01-07-2020 at 06:13 PM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    Pray for reset.


  32. #28
    That's a lot of fancy words to say that we should have never been in the Middle East to start with.
    I do not consent.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    A couple of things.

    Firstly, it is not established that he was "assassinated". To assume this is to assume that killing him was unjust. The evidence seems to suggest that he was a very bad actor, an enemy combatant whose deliberate actions validly placed him in the crosshairs.
    Nomenclature is not an issue here, it can by called anything and that won't change ground realities about this incidence and risk of escalation on wars path.

    Just to understand your premise and views about 'bad actors' and 'justice', if in coming years GOP wars neocons party received another blowback from voters and a POTUS named Al Assad Hussein Omani got elected (repeating Barack Hussein Obama election blowback) with mideast donors money and decided to drone Israeli PM Netanyahu declaring him a 'bad actor' who had killed many civilians of other races, would you see that as 'just' action?

    What is not disputed in reporting about him so far is that he :

    - helped US overthrwow Taliban in Afghanistan after 9/11

    - helped US form Iraqi government after Saddam overthrow

    - helped defeat ISIS in Syria, Iraq

    - helped Lebanon defeat Israel in 2006 war that killed over 100 Israeli soldiers

    What is disputed about his role:
    - he was working for CIA and killed 600 troops in Iraq


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post

    Secondly, it makes no sense that anyone would have him killed with the objective in mind of maintaining tensions between the parties in question. Unless the false case can be convincingly made that the Saudis had Soleimani offed or that Iran did so to make it look as if Saudis did it, I see no reason that either party would be stupid enough to allow this event to derail deescalation.
    Not a strong argument imo, it also assumes everyone acts/reacts in bloody wars in a perfectly rational and sane manner. But it is very plausible that an entity that gains from Iran-Saudi tensions could try to stop any development that could reduce wars tensions and lead to exit of foreign troops from mideast (possibly even in a failing manner that would expose them, as happened in case of Israeli Operation Sussanah terror attacks against US/UK targets in Egypt few decades ago). If OP news is based on facts, it could escalate/descalate situation or laws of unintended consequences could take things in any of the many possible directions.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    At this time, I am inclined to believe that that boy placed himself in danger by poking at the sleeping tiger, which them awakened, took exception, and resolved the issue without equivocation.
    There are plenty idicators that this act was reckless step and carries risk of further escalation with very zealous actors involved who don't always act rationally.
    Highlited is feel good rhetoric , reminded of similar rhetoric when Bush-Cheney aided by then neocon hawks invaded Iraq to remove 'bad actor' Saddam. History has showed how that talk was followed by Barack Hussein Obama revolution and caused rethinking.


    Best way to end costly deadly forever wars is to bring troops home , let our closest allies defend themselves and convert some of weapons industries to other peaceful channels. If too much money is needed to win elections and big money donors cannot be ignored, better solution is to reform political system.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    From the Oxford etymological dictionary:
    assassinate (v.)

    1610s, from past participle stem of Medieval Latin assassinare (see assassin). "Assassinate means to kill wrongfully by surprise, suddenly, or by secret assault" [Century Dictionary]. Of reputations, characters, etc., from 1620s. Related: Assassinated; assassinating.

    Please address your attention to the bold, italicized, underlined term. Now go back to what I wrote. The assumption has been by some that he was wrongfully killed. That assumption is eminently questionable and has in no way been established as being truth, at least no to my eyes.

    2.


    Let us examine this. If we assume, per your implications of tone and word, that both the Saudis and Iranians are in fact and indeed sincere about not standing at one another's throats and the USA who is a foe of one and an uneasy ally of the other (again assuming those nations are what they appear and all the Wahhabist bull$#@! is not just more political theater), then what I have written makes strong, if not conclusively convincing, sense. Brothers in Islam attempt to mend fences and America steps in and murders one of the envoys of peace. What YOU need to explain is how that is likely to turn those brothers at each other's throats and not leave them eyeballing the captain who has proudly proclaimed the head in question.

    Good luck with that, but my mind is open to persuasion.
    3. I don't think Trump had Soleimani killed to prevent peace between Saudi and Iran, he just did it to get more votes from the Oorah retard wing of the Republican party[/QUOTE]

    To all appearances, and I have yet to see anything convincing that contradicts, was a very bad actor. We are living in a world of utter $#@!, courtesy of the nearly universal corruption that is humanity. It is SO bad, that ever since about 1900, the technological levers given men in their various forms have lead not to ever greater peace, but increased barbarity and efficiency in the commission of the worst crimes imaginable.[/QUOTE]

    Nice, you found a suitable definition, written in a dictionary from the 1800's. Literally every other modern dictionary mentions nothing of the justifiability of the killing when defining "assassinate."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_Adolf_Hitler

    I guess they must call it "assassination attempts" because they consider assassinating hitler wrongful.

    Assassination refers to the the sudden, unexpected killing of someone, typically of prominence, regardless of whether or not it's justifiable.

    Why we can say Soleimani was assassinated and someone else, say Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi was not assassinated, has nothing to do with the justifiability. It's because there was nothing sudden or unexpected about the killing of Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. He was on the run from thousands of people trying to kill him for years. The same can't be said about Soleimani. Now just stop, I'm right, you're wrong.

    2. The salafis who run Saudi do not consider Iranians "brothers in Islam." They call them Majusi i.e. Zoroastrians. I do not necessarily buy into the claim that Soleimani "was on a peace mission." But regardless of whether he was or not, his assassination deters deescalation because Iran and its subsidiaries are not thinking about peace right now, they are thinking about how to go about reprisal attacks, of which Saudi is certainly a possible target

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