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Thread: Rep. Justin Amash reacts to Iran War

  1. #1

    Rep. Justin Amash reacts to Iran War

    Rep. Justin Amash, an independent congressman from Michigan who left the Republican Party last year, spoke out against Soleimani, but also took Trump to task for his use of military force against Iran, in a tweet that seemingly warned the president against taking further action without congressional approval.

    ďThereís a reason our Constitution grants Congress the power to declare war: Every American may be intimately affected by a violent conflict,Ē Amash wrote in his statement. Understanding that Soleimani was not a good person, Amash nevertheless pointed out that the Constitution ďdemands consent for war from the people, acting through their representatives and senators in Congress.Ē

    Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power to declare war. Many presidents, however, have used their Article II powers as commander-in-chief to engage in military action, sometimes for several years at a time, without an official declaration of war from the national legislature.

    The last official war declarations made by Congress, according to archives from the U.S. Senate website, happened during World War II.
    https://hillreporter.com/after-us-st...ng-a-war-54805



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    This was the sword to fall on.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  5. #4
    This seems almost disingenuous, given Congress has stood idly by for every undeclared war since Korea.

    While I recognize the evil of endless war and would have been happy to see Congress nip it all in the bud from Korea through Eye-Rack and Afghanistan, it remains the inescapable reality that there are those who endeavor to bring us to harm. The question then is what does one do about threats when credible intelligence says someone is up to no-good? I suppose we could sit and wait until something happens, but when it does, the same people who called you a warmongering baby killer suddenly shriek all hawkish and start calling for your head on a stick like a corn dog because you let it happen.

    People really need to make up their minds one way or another as to what sort of life they wish to live and stop trying to have their cake and eat it too. The world is full of man-made dangers. You either prepare to defend yourself, accepting the consequences, or you wash your hands of direct responsibility and accept THOSE consequences. Can't have it both ways.

    Given this world of deeply lousy humanity, I am not nearly as pissed off with Trump as I am with all the screaming hypocrites.
    Last edited by osan; 01-14-2020 at 04:40 AM.

  6. #5
    Key words in everything you were are "credible intelligence.". So far that's what is lacking. Even Donald Trump stop supporters like Rand Paul and Mike Lee have not been given credible intelligence. The most credible intelligence at this point is that general soleimani was in Iraq to deliver around response to a Saudi peace proposal.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    This seems almost disingenuous, given Congress has stood idly by for every undeclared war since Korea.

    While I recognize the evil of endless war and would have been happy to see Congress nip it all in the bud from Korea through Eye-Rack and Afghanistan, it remains the inescapable reality that three are some who endeavor to bring us to harm. The question, then is what does one do about them when credible intelligence says someone is up to no-good? I suppose we could sit and wait until she nothing happens, but when it does, the same people who called you a warmongering baby killer suddenly shriek all hawkish and start calling for your head on a stick like a corn dog.

    People really need to make up their minds one way or another as to what sort of life they wish to live and stop trying to have their cake and eat it too. The world is full of man-made dangers. You either prepare to defend yourself, accepting the consequences, or you wash your hands of direct responsibility and accept THOSE consequences. Can't have it both ways.

    Given this world of deeply lousy humanity, I am not nearly as pissed off with Trump as I am with all the screaming hypocrites.

  7. #6
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Key words in everything you were are "credible intelligence.". So far that's what is lacking. Even Donald Trump stop supporters like Rand Paul and Mike Lee have not been given credible intelligence. The most credible intelligence at this point is that general soleimani was in Iraq to deliver around response to a Saudi peace proposal.
    His reasons for being there were irrelevant to the purpose of the mission to kill him. He could have been there to blow the Ayatollah, it matters no whit. He was an active combatant and we snuffed his ass.

    If people were better behaved, there would be no need, much less justification for sending them to the Void. But they aren't. This is the $#@!ty reality of the world of humans. I don't like it and I'd bet you don't much care for it either. But that's the way it is. The choice, then, remains whether one is going to act to defend against the bad boys, or sit idly as they kill you off piecemeal. Choice is ours.

    That said, I think much of our foreign policy sucks the big tuna, so we stand some lessons in proper behavior as well. But do not for one moment drink the koolaid that asserts we are the only bad actors on the planet. We are not even close to that.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.


  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Uh, so does this mean that EVERYTHING we do in the Middle East is on par with killing the General?

    If so, then why are we talking about this specific incident so much when there are thousands of others like it?

    If you want to rank everything we have done in the Middle East, killing the General was at the bottom of the list of things we did wrong.

    Killing innocent people is wrong. Killing young soldiers who are just fighting for their country is $#@!ty. Killing a General who was fomenting violence and war, sending soldiers into battle to kill innocent people, who was responsible for killing and torturing over 1,600 Iranian citizens for protesting their government.. I don't really see a whole lot wrong with that.
    Last edited by dannno; 01-15-2020 at 01:06 PM.
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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Killing innocent people is wrong

    I assume you KNOW that the general wasn't the only person killed in this strike. The leader of the Iraqi militia was also killed and so were 5 innocent people who were with them.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    I assume you KNOW that the general wasn't the only person killed in this strike. The leader of the Iraqi militia was also killed and so were 5 innocent people who were with them.
    You mean the members of the militia that had just attacked our embassy?
    Attacking an embassy is an act of war.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You mean the members of the militia that had just attacked our embassy?
    Attacking an embassy is an act of war.
    So your now saying we're at war with Iraq? A country that was liberated and has an elected government. That makes no sense.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    So your now saying we're at war with Iraq? A country that was liberated and has an elected government. That makes no sense.
    Are the militias part of the government of Iraq?

    The militias are at war with us.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Are the militias part of the government of Iraq?

    The militias are at war with us.
    The militia is the official army of the iraqi government. How can they be at war with the US ? They're supposed to be allies. You really are sounding stupid now. It's tiresome

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    The militia is the official army of the iraqi government. How can they be at war with the US ? They're supposed to be allies. You really are sounding stupid now. It's tiresome
    Did they attack our embassy or not? (YES they did)
    They also told us to leave. (and we should leave)
    They are not our allies.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Did they attack our embassy or not? (YES they did)
    They also told us to leave. (and we should leave)
    They are not our allies.
    There were no deaths at the embassy, which should not be there in the first place. There is no declared war against Iraq. If its such a big deal Trump should go to Congress and get authorization.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    There were no deaths at the embassy, which should not be there in the first place. There is no declared war against Iraq. If its such a big deal Trump should go to Congress and get authorization.
    Attacking the embassy is an act of war whether there were any deaths or not and there is no reason we shouldn't have an embassy in Iraq. (we should perhaps have smaller one)

    Trump was Protecting our people by killing those engaged in war against us.

    Now we should come home and end the wars.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Attacking the embassy is an act of war whether there were any deaths or not and there is no reason we shouldn't have an embassy in Iraq. (we should perhaps have smaller one)

    Trump was Protecting our people by killing those engaged in war against us.

    Now we should come home and end the wars.
    There was no attack. The Iran/Shiite allied Iraqi security forces that the US fought the Iraq war for let the protesters in. There were no injuries.
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    There was no attack. The Iran/Shiite allied Iraqi security forces that the US fought the Iraq war for let the protesters in. There were no injuries.
    There was an attack, forcible entry happened, property was damaged and more would have happened if Trump hadn't sent reinforcements.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    So your now saying we're at war with Iraq? A country that was liberated and has an elected government. That makes no sense.
    Hey, don't be disingenuous. He said no such thing. But he was 100% correct in stating that attacking an embassy is indeed an act of war. This should not be difficult to grasp.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.


  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    His reasons for being there were irrelevant to the purpose of the mission to kill him. He could have been there to blow the Ayatollah, it matters no whit. He was an active combatant and we snuffed his ass.
    He was an active combatant against ISIS. We did them a favor.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    He was an active combatant against ISIS. We did them a favor.
    He was also an active combatant against us.

    Were we doing him a favor to bomb ISIS?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He was also an active combatant against us.
    No actual proof of that. The "evidence" is the speculation that an Iraqi military that fought Iran to a draw and that dubya stupidly disbanded couldn't figure out WW II era explosive technology that was first used in oil fields even though Iraq's main export was oil.

    Were we doing him a favor to bomb ISIS?
    Iran back in 2013 tried to make peace with the U.S. They went for the same deal that Bush gave Ghaddafi and that Obama later renigged on. We have a common enemy in Saudi backed Wahabi extremists. Instead John Bolton, the same John Bolton that Trump stupidly brought into his inner circle and that later gave aid and comfort to Adam Schiff, is the one who killed the Lawrence Wilkerson / Iran peace initiative. I personally believe the strike was a move by Trump to appease John Bolton to keep him from testifying. There is absolutely no reason for the United States to be on a war footing with Iran. None whatsoever. Justin Amash, Mike Lee and Rand Paul all agree on this.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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