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Thread: VA - Surburbs are too white, proposes law to overide local zoning.

  1. #1

    Exclamation VA - Surburbs are too white, proposes law to overide local zoning.

    Enjoy your diversity.


    Va. Dems eye state law against single-family zoning, say it’s racist, environmentally unsound

    https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/1...tally-unsound/

    By Daily Caller News Foundation December 25, 2019

    Virginia House Del. Ibraheem Samirah introduced a bill that would override local zoning officials to permit multi-family housing in every neighborhood, changing the character of quiet suburbs.

    Oregon passed a similar bill, following moves by cities such as Minneapolis; Austin, Texas; and Seattle.

    Proponents say urban lifestyles are better for the environment and that suburbs are bastions of racial segregation.

    Democrats in Virginia may override local zoning to bring high-density housing, including public housing, to every neighborhood statewide — whether residents want it or not.

    The measure could quickly transform the suburban lifestyle enjoyed by millions, permitting duplexes to be built on suburban lots in neighborhoods previously consisting of quiet streets and open green spaces. Proponents of “upzoning” say the changes are necessary because suburbs are bastions of segregation and elitism, as well as bad for the environment.

    The move, which aims to provide “affordable housing,” might be fiercely opposed by local officials throughout the state, who have deliberately created and preserved neighborhoods with particular character — some dense and walkable, others semi-rural and private — to accommodate people’s various preferences.

    But Democrats tout a state-level law’s ability to replace “not in my backyard” with “yes, in your backyard.”

    House Delegate Ibraheem Samirah, a Democrat, introduced six housing measures Dec. 19, coinciding with Democrats’ takeover of the state legislature in November.

    “Single-family housing zones would become two-zoned,” Samirah told the Daily Caller News Foundation. “Areas that would be impacted most would be the suburbs that have not done their part in helping out.”

    He said suburbs were “mostly white and wealthy” and that their local officials — who have historically been in charge of zoning — were ignoring the desires of poor people, who did not have time to lobby them to increase suburban density.

    In response to a question about whether people who bought homes in spacious suburbs have valid reasons, not based on discrimination, for preferring to live that way — including a love for nature and desire to preserve woods and streams — he said: “Caring about nature is very important, but the more dense a neighborhood is, the more energy efficient it is.”

    He said if local officials seek to change requirements like setbacks to make it impossible to build dense housing in areas zoned to preserve a nature feel, “if they make setbacks to block duplexes, there’d have to be a lawsuit to resolve whether those zoning provisions were necessary.”

    He wrote on Facebook, “Because middle housing is what’s most affordable for low-income people and people of color, banning that housing in well-off neighborhoods chalks up to modern-day redlining, locking folks out of areas with better access to schools, jobs, transit, and other services and amenities.”

    “I will certainly get pushback for this. Some will call it ‘state overreach.’ Some will express anxiety about neighborhood change. Some may even say that the supply issue doesn’t exist. But the research is clear: zoning is a barrier to more housing and integrated communities,” he continued.

    He tweeted Sunday that that would include public housing. “Important Q about new social/public housing programs: where are we going to put the units? Under current zoning, new low-income housing is relegated to underinvested neighborhoods, concentrating poverty more. Ending exclusionary zoning has to be part of broader housing reform,” he said.

    Tim Hannigan, chairman of the Fairfax County Republican Committee — in one of the areas Samirah represents — said that urban Democrats were waging war on the suburbs.

    “This could completely change the character of suburban residential life, because of the urbanization that would develop,” he told the DCNF. “So much of the American dream is built upon this idea of finding a nice quiet place to raise your family, and that is under assault.”

    “This is a power-grab to take away the ability of local communities to establish their own zoning practices … literally trying to change the character of our communities,” he said.

    He said suburbs were not equipped to handle the increased traffic, and “inevitably it will just push people to places where they feel they’ll get away from that, they may move to West Virginia to get their little plot of land.”

    Minneapolis became the first city to eliminated single family zoning in December 2018, after a push by progressive advocacy groups promoting “equity.”

    Austin, Texas, and Seattle soon followed suit.

    But those cities were amending zoning codes that have always been the domain of local governments. Oregon passed state legislation blocking local governments’ single-family zoning in July, CityLab reported.

    It quoted Alex Baca, a Washington, D.C., urbanist with the site Greater Greater Washington, saying that single-family zoning is a tool for wealthy whites to maintain segregated neighborhoods and that the abolition of low-density neighborhoods is necessary for equity.

    CityLab acknowledged that “residents might reasonably desire to keep the neighborhoods they love the way they are,” but said that implementing the law at the state level makes sure that those concerns can be more easily ignored.

    “By preempting the ability of local governments to set their own restrictive zoning policies, the state policy would circumnavigate the complaints of local NIMBY homeowners who want to block denser housing,” it wrote. (RELATED: Dem Prosecutors Fear For Suburbs’ Safety As Radical District Attorneys, Fueled By Soros Cash, Take Control)

    While he implied that suburbs are prejudiced, Samirah himself has a history of anti-Semitic comments, including saying sending money to Israel is worse than funding the Ku Klux Klan.

    “I am so sorry that my ill-chosen words added to the pain of the Jewish community, and I seek your understanding and compassion as I prove to you our common humanity,” he said in February.

    He interrupted a speech in July by President Donald Trump in Jamestown, Virginia, and said, “You can’t send us back! Virginia is our home.”

    His father is Jordanian refugee Sabri Samirah, who authorities banned from the U.S. for a decade after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, in part because of his membership in the Muslim Brotherhood, the Chicago Tribune reported in 2014.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  3. #2
    To hell in a hand basket.

    I hope Virginia folks wake up and do something.

  4. #3
    This is where the fight will be. People are happy to throw as much money at poverty as the government will take as long as poverty cannot be seen, heard, or smelled in their cozy little enclaves. People move where they do to escape having to deal with poverty in any way.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  5. #4
    If the State cannot do it, send the FED's in. Just like they are doing hundreds of miles away from the Rio Grande border. It is right up Trump's alley.

    What is this concern with Property Rights all of a sudden? Nobody actually owns land, neighborhoods or towns. And, it is for the betterment of all, after all.

    What... you took a quick look at my Signature, found some article, and then posted it here on RPF, hoping to start trouble?

    Sheesh!
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  6. #5
    Rich people will just keep moving until eventually they all live together where they can make their own rules. That’s what they do now. It’s not a race issue. It’s a money issue.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  7. #6
    I disagree with all forms of zoning

    Zoning laws are a violation of property rights. They destroy the sense of community in neighborhoods, increase crime, increase traffic congestion, contribute to urban and suburban air pollution, contribute to poverty, contribute to reliance in government — and, thus, reduce self-reliance — and contribute to the ruin of our schools. Most of our urban and suburban problems arose with zoning and other antiproperty laws, to which welfare programs and public housing projects have contributed. Each of these policies came out of the idea that society could and should be engineered from the top down to give rise to efficiency, community, and prosperity. What in fact resulted was the opposite outcome.

    With zoning laws, commercial, industrial, and residential areas are separated from each other. The result is blocks of houses, industrial parks, and strips of stores and restaurants. People have to drive miles to go to the store, to work, or even to the park. It is rare to go to the store and see anyone you know.
    But imagine a neighborhood without zoning laws. It would then be possible to have, say, a small grocery store on the corner where you could buy fresh fruits and vegetables, bread, and meat. That store would likely be within walking distance, be owned by one of your neighbors, and be designed to serve the neighborhood.
    https://mises.org/library/zoning-law...oy-communities

    Zoning is theft, pure and simple. In his fantastic introduction to the Austrian School, Economics for Real People, Gene Callahan correctly identifies eminent domain as a form of property theft, especially noting the use of government condemnation in order to secure rightfully owned property for commercial development.It is easy to see government as the crowbar that influence-seekers use to jimmy locks and force private property owners from their land. Here we have the clear picture of Ma and Pa Kettle and clan fighting the law and "progress" armed only with shotguns, corn squeezing, chewing tobacco and shear grit. The flip side to eminent domain, zoning, is not so easily seen. But as Bastiat revealed, the unseen is as important as the seen.
    Zoning is typically defined along the lines of a government-regulated system of land-usage imposed in order to ensure orderly development. Zoning is usually a component of the larger conceptual ideal called regional planning. Of course, planned development is really the name of the road toward planned chaos.
    Zoning uses all the standard interventionist lines of thought, most notably the concepts of externalities and utility. Those who advocate zoning really believe that acting man does not have the ability to create communities that are functional and prosperous. Without plans and maps drafted and drawn by the local elected elite, developers with knowledge and foresight, and a whole lot of money to gain or lose, would purposively layout communities that are sterile and functionless. Only the marginal vote-getters — those elected — and their appointed allies are omniscient enough to peer into the crystal ball and define the perfect setting for future life and leisure. The rest of us can only marvel at their visions.
    https://mises.org/library/zoning-theft
    Last edited by presence; 12-26-2019 at 08:39 AM.

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  8. #7
    Should it really be one way or the other?

    How about there be no laws on this issue and people just live or build how they want?
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    I disagree with all forms of zoning

    Zoning laws are a violation of property rights
    You have no property rights.

    You own nothing, you just rent from government.

    Government has decided that the current crop of squatters must be run off and displaced by a new group of squatters, since the old group are getting too uppity.

    That is why I posted this article, not as a defense of zoning, (which I knew would provoke a bunch of knee jerk reactive squalling) but as an indication of government sponsored hostility and pogramism towards native white folks and the continuing campaign to replace, displace and remove them.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    It’s not a race issue.
    Yes it is.

    The malignant, foreign flag, $#@! proposing the law says it is:

    Virginia House Del. Ibraheem Samirah said suburbs were “mostly white and wealthy”.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post

    Virginia House Del. Ibraheem Samirah said suburbs were “mostly white and wealthy”.
    If "republicans" can use eminent domain for the "betterment of all", why shouldn't democrats be able to also? What makes "republican" violation of rights better than the other team?

    Or do you now think rights should be absolute [like I do] now that the "tables are turned"?
    ____________

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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    As do I.
    More importantly I can say with confidence that in VA the zoning has been kept artificially suburban.
    The reason is as simple as it is obvious, and also an indicator of the article writer's lack of due diligence.
    The reason is that cities vote blue, and countrysides vote red.

    Everyone has known that for at least decades. The Republicans have always known this and have used it intentionally to keep the state red for as long as possible.

    It has nothing to do with guaranteeing everyone can have a yard. (I mean, it's obvious that if that's what the issue was there would be no reason to have overbearing HOAs in every neighborhood here, because ppl would want to take care of their little piece of land.)

    So once again, I remind everyone that VA is in this situation in part because of Republican $#@!-ups. They had about 30 years to spread a coherent message, and to try to figure out a way to let the market create high population densities that believed in conservative principles.

    Instead, they created some of the worst traffic in the world by resisting any improvement to our living conditions.

    When I first moved here Dulles Airport was getting finished up. Republicans oversaw the building of an international airport in the middle of cow pasture way out west from DC. And then they stood in the way of sending a train out there. And watched high enough density neighborhoods spring up all around that they all voted blue anyway, making their half-assed effort to hold on to power worth nothing anyway.

    Now, 30 years later, now that the dems are in power, they're finally talking about having train access to the airport.

    In the meanwhile they've allowed "town centers" to crop up everywhere in NoVA, which is a strip mall with apartments. And they are always located somewhere there used to be the last fallow land available, because literally everything else has been turned into pressboard estates... But now it's literally impossible to turn these "town centers" into the TOWNs they could have been because that would require retrofitting a train station.

    Does anyone remember the name Danica Roem? That's the name of a dude in a skirt who won a local election here a couple years ago, and he won because he ran on doing something about the traffic. People didnt give a $#@! whether he was an apache helicopter. All they knew is one candidate was talking about doing SOMETHING and the other wasnt.

    Keep posting about what's going on in VA and I will keep showing you all how it's all the Republicans' fault. Maybe we can get that word out.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  14. #12
    So we're against zoning laws but also against overriding those zoning laws so people can have affordable housing???
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

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  15. #13

  16. #14
    I'll admit I have cognitive dissonance on this.

    They tried doing this in my town shortly after I purchased a house. It's mostly single-family residential and they wanted to change the main single-family district for apartment development. They excluded the more "affluent" single-family districts from this change. They wanted to do this while still banning "garage apartments/Fonzi Flats". Of course, everyone was outraged and they withdrew the ordinance.

    I'm for no zoning laws too--let the market determine what works best or set up contracts with deed restrictions. This is still a zoning restriction. I wouldn't have moved here if I knew I could be living next to apartment complexes. So I admit I'm a hypocrite on this, but has AF said, you don't really own anything anyway. I see the city as the actual landlord who establishes the rules that I sometimes get to vote on.
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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yes it is.

    The malignant, foreign flag, $#@! proposing the law says it is:

    Virginia House Del. Ibraheem Samirah said suburbs were “mostly white and wealthy”.
    Born in the US, but spent much of his youth as a Palestinian refugee in Jordan. You privileged white Americans don’t know what it’s like to be a refugee or live in sub-standard, overcrowded conditions (yet).
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    If "republicans" can use eminent domain for the "betterment of all", why shouldn't democrats be able to also? What makes "republican" violation of rights better than the other team?

    Or do you now think rights should be absolute [like I do] now that the "tables are turned"?
    If I had property rights, I would have the right not to sell to the likes of Ibraheem Samirah and his fellow invaders.

    Thereby making that the most effective tool against them overrunning me.

    If that was the point you were trying to make, I agree and always have agreed.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Born in the US, but spent much of his youth as a Palestinian refugee in Jordan. You privileged white Americans don’t know what it’s like to be a refugee or live in sub-standard, overcrowded conditions (yet).
    Yup, we will soon enough though.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  21. #18
    Democrats hate white people!

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    I'll admit I have cognitive dissonance on this.

    They tried doing this in my town shortly after I purchased a house. It's mostly single-family residential and they wanted to change the main single-family district for apartment development. They excluded the more "affluent" single-family districts from this change. They wanted to do this while still banning "garage apartments/Fonzi Flats". Of course, everyone was outraged and they withdrew the ordinance.

    I'm for no zoning laws too--let the market determine what works best or set up contracts with deed restrictions. This is still a zoning restriction. I wouldn't have moved here if I knew I could be living next to apartment complexes. So I admit I'm a hypocrite on this, but has AF said, you don't really own anything anyway. I see the city as the actual landlord who establishes the rules that I sometimes get to vote on.
    Bingo.

    I'd no more buy pay government and bankster rents on a home or land that was subject to having a ten thousand unit Soviet bloc Stack a Prole housing flat built right next door than I would with one that had a sewage treatment plant right next door.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
    Democrats hate white people!
    Yes they do and they are actively working daily to silence their voices, divest them of wealth and render them second class citizens.

    They are not "democrats" by the way, they are, in fact, Bolsheviks and Marxists.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Bingo.

    I'd no more buy pay government and bankster rents on a home or land that was subject to having a ten thousand unit Soviet bloc Stack a Prole housing flat built right next door than I would with one that had a sewage treatment plant right next door.
    It is an interesting cultural issue. People come to the US from different societies and have different ideas on what is acceptable, desirable or aesthetically pleasing. Could be as simple as someone painting a house a very different color, or tearing down the house to build a different one.

    For example, people from China tend to have no desire or need for a yard. Thus, the entire concept of the US suburb is foreign to many of them. They might put up a 4 story box taking up every inch of property next door to a single story ranch home, if zoning did not prevent it. It’s simply a clash of cultural norms.

    HOAs tend to squelch this kind of “disharmony”, but they are a special kind of tyranny.
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yes they do and they are actively working daily to silence their voices, divest them of wealth and render them second class citizens.

    They are not "democrats" by the way, they are, in fact, Bolsheviks and Marxists.
    I view all Democrats as communists. They are communists since the 30s.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    So we're against zoning laws but also against overriding those zoning laws so people can have affordable housing???
    Well the progressives don't want to eliminate zoning laws, they just want to gain control of them so that they can push their social agenda.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
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  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    I'll admit I have cognitive dissonance on this.

    They tried doing this in my town shortly after I purchased a house. It's mostly single-family residential and they wanted to change the main single-family district for apartment development. They excluded the more "affluent" single-family districts from this change. They wanted to do this while still banning "garage apartments/Fonzi Flats". Of course, everyone was outraged and they withdrew the ordinance.

    I'm for no zoning laws too--let the market determine what works best or set up contracts with deed restrictions. This is still a zoning restriction. I wouldn't have moved here if I knew I could be living next to apartment complexes. So I admit I'm a hypocrite on this, but has AF said, you don't really own anything anyway. I see the city as the actual landlord who establishes the rules that I sometimes get to vote on.

    It's a tough thing. If it isn't your land then you don't have a right to say what the land owner does on their own property.

    But sometimes what the land owner does on their property affects your property.

    Zoning laws are anti-freedom for sure and often times they are used to push agendas or weaponized or set up so that one has to pay off the local government/mafia just to be able to use one's own property.

    But yet you may not want a strip club moving in across the street from your house.

    There is a blog called the Anti Planner which discusses this very topic.

    Interestingly Houston has no zoning laws from what I understand.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    So we're against zoning laws but also against overriding those zoning laws so people can have affordable housing???
    They are putting public housing in there too, and they will also likely subsidize "green" housing aka apartments or whatever.

    Edit: Not to mention you have the welfare state that is bringing in a lot of immigrants and paying poor people to have large families in small apartments.
    Last edited by dannno; 12-26-2019 at 12:49 PM.
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  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    It’s not a race issue.
    Yes it is.

    The jerk proposing the law says it is:

    Virginia House Del. Ibraheem Samirah said suburbs were “mostly white and wealthy”.

    ETA - @euphemia

    I apologize, my reply to you was crude.

    I forget you are IRL a sweet grandma sometimes.

    ;-)
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  31. #27
    Liberals need to get a clue. The black middle class is the fastest growing dynamic. There are many expensive subdivisions in our county that are racially integrated. It may not be at the actual racial breakdown of our county, but it is changing all the time. Given time, neighborhoods will naturally integrate. There are some schools in our county that do not bus for racial reasons. The districts are already integrated.
    #NashvilleStrong

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  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yes it is.

    The jerk proposing the law says it is:

    Virginia House Del. Ibraheem Samirah said suburbs were “mostly white and wealthy”.

    ETA - @euphemia

    I apologize, my reply to you was crude.

    I forget you are IRL a sweet grandma sometimes.

    ;-)
    I’m always a sweet grandma. I didn’t see your post. In any case we are good. I am against zoning as much as you are. I’m in a urban lower-middle class neighborhood in a large metropolitan area ruined by liberals. We don’t have acreage in a snow covered wonderland like you do. My perspective is different than yours, but we are very close on the issue of zoning and property rights.
    #NashvilleStrong

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  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    If "republicans" can use eminent domain for the "betterment of all", why shouldn't democrats be able to also? What makes "republican" violation of rights better than the other team?

    Or do you now think rights should be absolute [like I do] now that the "tables are turned"?
    The common defense against invaders is a just and legitimate government function, forced diversity is not.

    The invaders you want to let waltz across the border will bring this and much more, you will not be allowed any of your rights and probably not your life when they take over.
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  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It's a tough thing. If it isn't your land then you don't have a right to say what the land owner does on their own property.

    But sometimes what the land owner does on their property affects your property.

    Zoning laws are anti-freedom for sure and often times they are used to push agendas or weaponized or set up so that one has to pay off the local government/mafia just to be able to use one's own property.

    But yet you may not want a strip club moving in across the street from your house.

    There is a blog called the Anti Planner which discusses this very topic.

    Interestingly Houston has no zoning laws from what I understand.


    Considering this would be a state law controlling muni regulations, I guess I wouldn't care since it would apply to everyone and every city. Don't tell my neighbors though.
    Last edited by EBounding; 12-28-2019 at 09:59 AM.
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