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Thread: Trial... Those Torture Drawings in the NYT

  1. #1

    Trial... Those Torture Drawings in the NYT

    john kiriakou
    dec 14, 2019
    Ron Paul Institute

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    The New York Times last week published shocking drawings by Guantanamo prisoner Abu Zubaydah showing in graphic detail the types of tortures he endured at the hands of CIA officers and contractors at secret prisons around the world. The drawings were sickening. With a child’s simplicity, they showed the irrational cruelty of the CIA’s torture program, which weakened our country, violated domestic and international law and ended up saying so much more about us, as Americans, than it did about the terrorists who wished us harm.

    The Times did its duty of reminding us what monsters the CIA produced in the early years of its so-called war on terror, people introduced to most Americans in the Senate’s torture report. These are people such as the CIA’s former Director George Tenet and Deputy Director John McLaughlin. They include unapologetic torture proponents such as former Deputy Director for Operations Jose Rodriguez and current CIA Director Gina Haspel. They are the creators of the torture program: psychologists James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen. And in the photos of Abu Zubaydah’s drawing that the Times ran, the CIA dutifully blacked out even the stick-figure sketches of the actual torturers, those CIA officers who sold their souls to break the law, all in honor of that false god called “national security.”




    Woefully Inadequate Article

    With that said, the Times article, although revelatory in terms of Abu Zubaydah’s personal story, was woefully inadequate. It never mentioned, for example, how the Obama administration[/url] did literally nothing to make any of this right. Remember former President Barack Obama’s decision to hold no one accountable for the torture program and instead https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/31/obama-justice-department-immunity-bush-cia-torturer”]look forward, not backward?”[/url] That didn’t serve justice. It just protected the torturers and the criminals who supported them. Remember the promise to close Guantanamo? It never happened.

    And what about that Senate torture report? We talk about “the Senate torture report” like we actually know what was in it. We don’t. The 5,500-page report was never released. Instead, after a battle royal with the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI), Obama finally allowed only a heavily redacted version, less than 700 pages, of the report’s executive summary to see the light of day. And all of that happened after then-CIA Director and Obama loyalist John Brennan ordered CIA officers to secretly hack into the SSCI’s computer system[/url] to see what committee investigators were up to. Of course, no charges for that were ever filed.

    Abu Zubaydah has been in US custody for a long time. It’s already been nearly 18 years. I know. I captured him on the night of March 22, 2002, in an al-Qaeda safe house in Faisalabad, Pakistan. We were convinced at the time that he was the third-ranking person in al-Qaeda. That was wrong.

    He was certainly a bad man. He had founded both of al-Qaeda’s training camps in southern Afghanistan and he had also created an al-Qaeda safe house in Peshawar, Pakistan, called the “House of Martyrs.” Want to go to Afghanistan to make jihad? Call Abu Zubaydah. Already in Afghanistan and you want to go home? Call Abu Zubaydah. But he was not the No. 3. He had never even joined al-Qaeda. And he had never pledged fealty to Osama bin Laden.

    A Pakistani policeman shot and severely wounded Abu Zubaydah on the night we captured him. He was then transported to a secret CIA prison to recover and to be tortured. As you can imagine, he confessed to a wide variety of terrorism-related crimes, whether he had actually committed them or not. A torture victim will tell his torturer literally anything just to make the torture stop. None of that information, because it was collected illegally, is admissible in a court of law.

    And so, Abu Zubaydah, like every other Guantanamo detainee with the dubious exception of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Muhammad, sits in solitary confinement year after year without ever having been charged with a crime.

    There is only one way out of this national embarrassment. Abu Zubaydah has a constitutional right to face his accusers in a court of law. He has a right to be tried by a jury of his peers. If he is not charged — if he cannot be charged — with a crime, he must be released. That’s the law. It’s the American way.

    Former President George W. Bush got us into this situation by allowing the likes of his Vice President Dick Cheney to run the country. Barack Obama did nothing to improve the situation. Indeed, he sided with the CIA at every opportunity. President Donald Trump (who has publicly supported torture), well… it’s not even worth having that conversation. But the bottom line is that what Abu Zubaydah and others have endured in secret prisons and at Guantanamo is not the American way. It’s not constitutional. It’s not legal. We have to correct this immediately.


    John Kiriakou is a former CIA counterterrorism officer and a former senior investigator with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. John became the sixth whistleblower indicted by the Obama administration under the Espionage Act — a law designed to punish spies. He served 23 months in prison as a result of his attempts to oppose the Bush administration’s torture program.


    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...gs-in-the-nyt/
    Last edited by PAF; 12-14-2019 at 05:06 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  3. #2
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

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  4. #3
    Torture is un-american.
    This is what the Nazis & the Communist did!

  5. #4
    I have a sense that this is a really important topic, and I'd like to offer an opinion, but I'm not exactly sure where a True American (TM) would stand on it. I think I'll just wait until SS weighs in. After all, when it comes to being a True, Red, White and Blue American, he's pretty much the Gold Standard, right? I wouldn't want to accidentally side with commies or turrists.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    I have a sense that this is a really important topic, and I'd like to offer an opinion, but I'm not exactly sure where a True American (TM) would stand on it. I think I'll just wait until SS weighs in. After all, when it comes to being a True, Red, White and Blue American, he's pretty much the Gold Standard, right? I wouldn't want to accidentally side with commies or turrists.
    Say what you want. He won't know what he thinks until Trump weighs in on the subject. And since he put a torturer in charge of the CIA, Trump isn't going to even mention it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Say what you want. He won't know what he thinks until Trump weighs in on the subject. And since he put a torturer in charge of the CIA, Trump isn't going to even mention it.

    Well, you can never go wrong with:

    'Murica! $#@! yeah!
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
    Torture is un-american.
    This is what the Nazis & the Communist did!
    American's have tortured plenty. American's, not necessarily America, have financed the Communists since the beginning. We are above nothing and special in no way.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Say what you want. He won't know what he thinks until Trump weighs in on the subject. And since he put a torturer in charge of the CIA, Trump isn't going to even mention it.

    What? You mean Bloody Gina Haspel ISN'T a Great American(TM)? And Trump appointed her anyway? How can this be?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  11. #9
    ///
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    What? You mean Bloody Gina Haspel ISN'T a Great American(TM)? And Trump appointed her anyway? How can this be?
    Who says?

    Next you'll say Tomás de Torquemada wasn't a Great Spaniard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Who says?

    Next you'll say Tomás de Torquemada wasn't a Great Spaniard.

    "You can't Torquemada anything!"
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    I have a sense that this is a really important topic, and I'd like to offer an opinion, but I'm not exactly sure where a True American (TM) would stand on it. I think I'll just wait until SS weighs in. After all, when it comes to being a True, Red, White and Blue American, he's pretty much the Gold Standard, right? I wouldn't want to accidentally side with commies or turrists.

    It's not torture if you don't consider them to be human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  15. #13
    **EDIT: Don’t want to be dissapeared.**
    Last edited by Slave Mentality; 12-14-2019 at 08:48 PM.

  16. #14
    Endorsing torture was a major step backwards for America.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    **EDIT: Don’t want to be dissapeared.**

    Oh come on! Live a little! You'll be in good company in the "re-education center."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    Endorsing torture was a major step backwards for America.
    Too many know nothing of Hole Time.. (Generally considered Torture in Civilized Countries..)

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    john kiriakou
    dec 14, 2019
    Ron Paul Institute

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	abu.jpg 
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ID:	7286

    The New York Times last week published shocking drawings by Guantanamo prisoner Abu Zubaydah showing in graphic detail the types of tortures he endured at the hands of CIA officers and contractors at secret prisons around the world. The drawings were sickening. With a child’s simplicity, they showed the irrational cruelty of the CIA’s torture program, which weakened our country, violated domestic and international law and ended up saying so much more about us, as Americans, than it did about the terrorists who wished us harm.

    The Times did its duty of reminding us what monsters the CIA produced in the early years of its so-called war on terror, people introduced to most Americans in the Senate’s torture report. These are people such as the CIA’s former Director George Tenet and Deputy Director John McLaughlin. They include unapologetic torture proponents such as former Deputy Director for Operations Jose Rodriguez and current CIA Director Gina Haspel. They are the creators of the torture program: psychologists James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen. And in the photos of Abu Zubaydah’s drawing that the Times ran, the CIA dutifully blacked out even the stick-figure sketches of the actual torturers, those CIA officers who sold their souls to break the law, all in honor of that false god called “national security.”




    Woefully Inadequate Article

    With that said, the Times article, although revelatory in terms of Abu Zubaydah’s personal story, was woefully inadequate. It never mentioned, for example, how the Obama administration[/url] did literally nothing to make any of this right. Remember former President Barack Obama’s decision to hold no one accountable for the torture program and instead https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/31/obama-justice-department-immunity-bush-cia-torturer”]look forward, not backward?”[/url] That didn’t serve justice. It just protected the torturers and the criminals who supported them. Remember the promise to close Guantanamo? It never happened.

    And what about that Senate torture report? We talk about “the Senate torture report” like we actually know what was in it. We don’t. The 5,500-page report was never released. Instead, after a battle royal with the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI), Obama finally allowed only a heavily redacted version, less than 700 pages, of the report’s executive summary to see the light of day. And all of that happened after then-CIA Director and Obama loyalist John Brennan ordered CIA officers to secretly hack into the SSCI’s computer system[/url] to see what committee investigators were up to. Of course, no charges for that were ever filed.

    Abu Zubaydah has been in US custody for a long time. It’s already been nearly 18 years. I know. I captured him on the night of March 22, 2002, in an al-Qaeda safe house in Faisalabad, Pakistan. We were convinced at the time that he was the third-ranking person in al-Qaeda. That was wrong.

    He was certainly a bad man. He had founded both of al-Qaeda’s training camps in southern Afghanistan and he had also created an al-Qaeda safe house in Peshawar, Pakistan, called the “House of Martyrs.” Want to go to Afghanistan to make jihad? Call Abu Zubaydah. Already in Afghanistan and you want to go home? Call Abu Zubaydah. But he was not the No. 3. He had never even joined al-Qaeda. And he had never pledged fealty to Osama bin Laden.

    A Pakistani policeman shot and severely wounded Abu Zubaydah on the night we captured him. He was then transported to a secret CIA prison to recover and to be tortured. As you can imagine, he confessed to a wide variety of terrorism-related crimes, whether he had actually committed them or not. A torture victim will tell his torturer literally anything just to make the torture stop. None of that information, because it was collected illegally, is admissible in a court of law.

    And so, Abu Zubaydah, like every other Guantanamo detainee with the dubious exception of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Muhammad, sits in solitary confinement year after year without ever having been charged with a crime.

    There is only one way out of this national embarrassment. Abu Zubaydah has a constitutional right to face his accusers in a court of law. He has a right to be tried by a jury of his peers. If he is not charged — if he cannot be charged — with a crime, he must be released. That’s the law. It’s the American way.

    Former President George W. Bush got us into this situation by allowing the likes of his Vice President Dick Cheney to run the country. Barack Obama did nothing to improve the situation. Indeed, he sided with the CIA at every opportunity. President Donald Trump (who has publicly supported torture), well… it’s not even worth having that conversation. But the bottom line is that what Abu Zubaydah and others have endured in secret prisons and at Guantanamo is not the American way. It’s not constitutional. It’s not legal. We have to correct this immediately.


    John Kiriakou is a former CIA counterterrorism officer and a former senior investigator with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. John became the sixth whistleblower indicted by the Obama administration under the Espionage Act — a law designed to punish spies. He served 23 months in prison as a result of his attempts to oppose the Bush administration’s torture program.


    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...gs-in-the-nyt/
    Even with this we get this:

    And so, Abu Zubaydah, like every other Guantanamo detainee with the dubious exception of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Muhammad


    PROVE IT because after years of digging into 9/11 conspiracy, I do not believe it. I am fully convinced it was an inside job. That Italian documentary, September 11; The New Pearl Harbor, left me thinking the whole thing may have been planned in the Pentagon.

    Whatever happened and whatever these prisoners did or did not do, this an atrocity. That these people are STILL in prison is just unbelievable.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post

    Whatever happened and whatever these prisoners did or did not do, this an atrocity. That these people are STILL in prison is just unbelievable.
    Tortured in prison for almost two decades without ever being tried. That's the unbelievable part.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    Tortured in prison for almost two decades without ever being tried. That's the unbelievable part.
    I know. He may be a really nasty piece of work, too, considering what he was doing prior to being kidnapped by US forces but what does that have to do with the United States? NOTHING. All of the Gitmo prisoners and their incarceration is predicated upon the lie of 19 Arabs with box cutters. I'm so sick of this fake reality that is based upon lies.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Oh come on! Live a little! You'll be in good company in the "re-education center."
    Just ordered thin blue line and support our troops bumper stickers, a blue bulb for my porch light, and finally getting my eagle tattoo. I will come visit you brah.

    Edit: also began listening to Lee Greenwood while worshipping at my Founding Fathers shrine(s).
    Last edited by Slave Mentality; 12-15-2019 at 07:35 AM.

  24. #21
    Oh, and torture is yet another sign of the endless depravity these types are capable of. Don’t be so ignorant of history to think that they would not dehuminize and do the same to your brothers in your own backyard. Sickening to ponder the logical conclusions here.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    Oh, and torture is yet another sign of the endless depravity these types are capable of. Don’t be so ignorant of history to think that they would not dehuminize and do the same to your brothers in your own backyard. Sickening to ponder the logical conclusions here.
    In a heartbeat.
    "The Patriarch"



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