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Thread: USMCA = NAU+TPP

  1. #1

    USMCA = NAU+TPP



    This is why there is no wall going up and no material changes to immigration, regardless of the bs propaganda the resident Trumpkins post daily.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  3. #2
    But, but, but... I was told, on here no less, that this new agreement was going to be full of freedom and liberty!


    Are you saying that is not the case?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  4. #3
    MAGA wing is on a roll.





    Mexico's President gives Jared Kushner their nation’s greatest award for saving NAFTA (renamed USMCA)


    The Order of the Aztec Eagle, issued by Mexico to foreigners who make a significant contribution to the country
    November 30, 2018
    Kushner was inducted into the Order of the Aztec Eagle. It’s an honour reserved for foreigners who make a significant contribution to Mexico’s wellbeing. In this case, it was for a trade agreement.
    The USMCA agreement — which replaces the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) dumped by President Trump — is expected to be signed at the G20 meeting of world leaders in Argentina.
    He was a “grand ally of Mexico”, President Peña Nieto declared at the announcement, which elevates Kushner to the same league as Bill Gates, Queen Elizabeth II, Walt Disney and Nelson Mandela.
    Kushner deserved recognition for “his significant contributions in achieving the renegotiation … avoiding a unilateral departure by the US from the treaty”.


    Trump urges Congress to vote on USMCA

    October 21, 2019
    President Trump on Oct. 21 said that the U.S. trade agreement with Mexico and Canada needs to be voted on, adding that "it's going to be very bipartisan."
    washingtonpost.com/video/politics/trump-urges-congress-to-vote-on-usmca/

  5. #4
    ///
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  6. #5
    Now, let me get this straight. Amash is labeled a "traitor" and accused of helping to "destroy the constitution and rule of law" for participating in a process that is, at least at face value, prescribed by that very constitution.

    Trump, on the other hand, signs this treaty which if ratified would formally hand off American sovereighnty to a multi-national entity and there's very little by way of criticism, let alone such hue and cry as raised against Amash. How is formally handing away American sovereignty any less a "destruction if the constitution and rule of law" than is voting for impeachment?

    Curious.
    Last edited by CCTelander; 12-13-2019 at 11:29 PM.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Now, let me get this straight. Amash is labeled a "traitor" and accused of helping to "destroy the constitution and rule of law" for participating in a process that is, at least at face value, prescribed by that very constitution.

    Trump, on the other hand, signs this treaty which if ratified would formally hand off American sovereighnty to a multi-national entity and there's very little by way of criticism, let alone such hue and cry as raised against Amash. How is formally handing away American sovereignty any less a "destruction if the constitution andvrule of law" than is voting for impeachment?

    Curious.
    They speak highly of the little crumbs here and there, whilst calling us leftist traitors who do not march in lock step. Anti-liberty threads are also bumped repeatedly to drown us out, just like TV during the 2012 election.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    They speak highly of the little crumbs here and there, whilst calling us leftist traitors who do not march in lock step. Anti-liberty threads are also bumped repeatedly to drown us out, just like TV during the 2012 election.

    Yes, those engaging in such bad behavior succeed because they act in concert with each other and, on some issues, even have the support of some of the more respectable members. We who oppose that crap are much less effective because, for whatever reason, we fail to adequately support each others' efforts.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  9. #8
    I don’t understand why we need to negotiate tariffs.

    We could easily write a trade bill that mandates reciprocal tariffs. If they raise their tariffs we raise ours. They lower theirs and we do the same. In principal they wanted this after Hawley-Smoot but WWII ended that idea. If this were to really work we would have to factor in subsidies (and ban them domestically), labor regulations (and ban them domestically), and interest rate manipulation/monetary manipulation (and end the money monopoly). States would have to be penalized when they manipulate their economies in this way by enacting penalty tariffs but negotiating isn’t (or at least doesn’t seem) necessary.

    To me it seems like a trade deal is a great way to get “trade” PR without tackling the problem of market manipulation at it’s source.

    With that said, Trump has done more good in three years than any other President in my life. I never thought he would save anything. He’s turned the lights on and the roaches are exposed. I’ll take it.

    Edit: reciprocal & thought
    Last edited by Gumba of Liberty; 12-13-2019 at 04:53 PM.



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  11. #9
    The MAGA is good and the MAGA is wise.

    All of you guys need to embrace the MAGA and bathe in it's goodness.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    I don’t understand why we need to negotiate tariffs.

    We could easily write a trade bill that mandates tariffs. If they raise their tariffs we raise ours. They lower theirs and we do the same. In principal they wanted this after Hawley-Smoot but WWII ended that idea. If this were to really work we would have to factor in subsidies (and ban them domestically), labor regulations (and ban them domestically), and interest rate manipulation/monetary manipulation (and end the money monopoly). States would have to be penalized when they manipulate their economies in this way by enacting penalty tariffs but negotiating isn’t (or at least doesn’t seem) necessary.

    To me it seems like a trade deal is a great way to get “trade” PR without tackling the problem of market manipulation at it’s source.

    With that said, Trump has done more good in three years than any other President in my life. I never through he would save anything. He’s turned the lights on and the roaches are exposed. I’ll take it.
    Yeah, simple is better. There are so many factors, caveats and workarounds. Once they get into negotiating every detail and every special interest “ask”, you end up with a massive agreement with god only knows what buried in there. No telling what Pelosi has added. “Pass the bill first and then you can find out what’s in it”.

    Matching tariffs is more how you deal with a nation that refuses to negotiate. If you can sign a deal, keep it simple.

    “The US, Canada and Mexico shall have a standard, across the board import tariff on goods and services of 5%. There shall be no export tariffs.”

    Two sentences. Pass it Congress and Trump sign it. I dare them!
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Yes, those engaging in such bad behavior succeed because they act in concert with each other and, on some issues, even have the support of some of the more respectable members. We who oppose that crap are much less effective because, for whatever reason, we fail to adequately support each others' efforts.
    "more respectable members" like the mod who banned Superfluous, ostensibly for always talking about the same thing and allegedly putting words in the mouths of others? Funny how everyone who does that--daily--doesn't get banned for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "more respectable members" like the mod who banned Superfluous, ostensibly for always talking about the same thing and allegedly putting words in the mouths of others? Funny how everyone who does that--daily--doesn't get banned for it.

    THAT is a very good point. Don't expect anything better than a snide dismissal, if you get anything at all.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SimmerDown View Post
    The MAGA is good and the MAGA is wise.

    All of you guys need to embrace the MAGA and bathe in it's goodness.
    Weren't you banned? Jamesiv
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Weren't you banned? Jamesiv
    In the ban rampage.

    It seems he was allowed to make another account as a compromise.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In the ban rampage.

    It seems he was allowed to make another account as a compromise.
    Interesting. Does he know that his avatar is a Roman cult god named Mithras, one of the early "versions" of the character Jesus? Oh wait, I bet he does, since this global communist government agenda is a Vatican thing and he cheers for it.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Now, let me get this straight. Amash is labeled a "traitor" and accused of helping to "destroy the constitution and rule of law" for participating in a process that is, at least at face value, prescribed by that very constitution.

    Trump, on the other hand, signs this treaty which if ratified would formally hand off American sovereighnty to a multi-national entity and there's very little by way of criticism, let alone such hue and cry as raised against Amash. How is formally handing away American sovereignty any less a "destruction if the constitution andvrule of law" than is voting for impeachment?

    Curious.


    Take your pick, left wing, right wing, same bird.
    "The Patriarch"



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Now, let me get this straight. Amash is labeled a "traitor" and accused of helping to "destroy the constitution and rule of law" for participating in a process that is, at least at face value, prescribed by that very constitution.

    Trump, on the other hand, signs this treaty which if ratified would formally hand off American sovereighnty to a multi-national entity and there's very little by way of criticism, let alone such hue and cry as raised against Amash. How is formally handing away American sovereignty any less a "destruction if the constitution andvrule of law" than is voting for impeachment?

    Curious.
    Right? Remember when Bush and the TPP were exposed? Nobody here was defending him, or pretending that deal was at all Libertarian.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Right? Remember when Bush and the TPP were exposed? Nobody here was defending him, or pretending that deal was at all Libertarian.
    Please point to anyone defending the USMCA.

    There are plenty of people trying to tell us not to worry about the impeachment coup.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post


    Take your pick, left wing, right wing, same bird.

    Bingo!
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Please point to anyone defending the USMCA.

    There are plenty of people trying to tell us not to worry about the impeachment coup.
    You certainly don't put any effort into opposing it, and the impeachment is nothing but political theatre. It won't come to anything. Dems get to claim they gave it the old college try and repubs get to strut around and claim they saved the country.
    "The Patriarch"

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    You certainly don't put any effort into opposing it, and the impeachment is nothing but political theatre. It won't come to anything. Dems get to claim they gave it the old college try and repubs get to strut around and claim they saved the country.
    The MSM gets to bleat about history being made, and crap gets through Congress in a bipartisan manner and signed by Trump with even less attention paid than usual. And the trolls even get to rehabilitate Chief Neocon Pansy Graham.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Now, let me get this straight. Amash is labeled a "traitor" and accused of helping to "destroy the constitution and rule of law" for participating in a process that is, at least at face value, prescribed by that very constitution.

    Trump, on the other hand, signs this treaty which if ratified would formally hand off American sovereighnty to a multi-national entity and there's very little by way of criticism, let alone such hue and cry as raised against Amash. How is formally handing away American sovereignty any less a "destruction if the constitution andvrule of law" than is voting for impeachment?

    Curious.
    All part of the distraction, eh?

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    You certainly don't put any effort into opposing it
    LOL

    Urge your representatives to Get US Out! of NAFTA & USMCA (clean thread)

    Started by Swordsmyth, 12-04-2018
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    But, but, but... I was told, on here no less, that this new agreement was going to be full of freedom and liberty!

    Are you saying that is not the case?


    Turn left and follow the officer to the remagafication facility.



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  29. #25
    Now, I myself love the USMCA.

    ...especially the part where were export our socialism to Mexico by way of forcing them to adopt a minimum wage and support unionism.

    Make The World Red Again (so GM can pay those union pensions)!

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Interesting. Does he know that his avatar is a Roman cult god named Mithras, one of the early "versions" of the character Jesus? Oh wait, I bet he does, since this global communist government agenda is a Vatican thing and he cheers for it.
    You sir, are no lover of liberty.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    All part of the distraction, eh?

    "Nothin' up my sleeve..."

    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    You certainly don't put any effort into opposing it, and the impeachment is nothing but political theatre. It won't come to anything. Dems get to claim they gave it the old college try and repubs get to strut around and claim they saved the country.

    Immigration? MANY THOUSANDS of posts denouncing any kind of approach to any issues that it might raise other than sending people with guns to impede or shoot ANYONE attempting to immigrate. Multiple posts virtually every day, often repeating the exact same content.

    Impeachment? MANY HUNDREDS (perhaps by now even a couple thousand) of posts making wildly hyperbolic claims and prognostications of utter doom. Multiple posts virtually every day.

    USMCA? "See? I posted a thread and criticised it a couple of times in other threads."

    Yep, EXACTLY the same level of effort and opposition.

    SMMFH
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Immigration? MANY THOUSANDS of posts denouncing any kind of approach to any issues that it might raise other than sending people with guns to impede or shoot ANYONE attempting to immigrate. Multiple posts virtually every day, often repeating the exact same content.

    Impeachment? MANY HUNDREDS (perhaps by now even a couple thousand) of posts making wildly hyperbolic claims and prognostications of utter doom. Multiple posts virtually every day.

    USMCA? "See? I posted a thread and criticised it a couple of times in other threads."

    Yep, EXACTLY the same level of effort and opposition.

    SMMFH


    There are so many people here supporting it that I need to debate?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I stand corrected.
    "The Patriarch"

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