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Thread: Why Sexual Morality May be Far More Important than You Ever Thought

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Why Sexual Morality May be Far More Important than You Ever Thought

    https://frjohnpeck.com/why-sexual-mo...-ever-thought/

    Unwin examines the data from 86 societies and civilizations to see if there is a relationship between sexual freedom and the flourishing of cultures. What makes the book especially interesting is that we in the West underwent a sexual revolution in the late 1960’s, 70’s, and 80’s and are now in a position to test the conclusions he arrived at more than 40 years earlier.

    So what did he find?

    I have prepared a 26-page collection of quotes from his book that summarize his findings; but even that would leave you with a significant under-appreciation of the rigour and fascinating details revealed in data from 86 cultures. Here are a few of his most significant findings:

    Effect of sexual constraints: Increased sexual constraints, either pre or post-nuptial, always led to increased flourishing of a culture. Conversely, increased sexual freedom always led to the collapse of a culture three generations later.

    Single most influential factor: Surprisingly, the data revealed that the single most important correlation with the flourishing of a culture was whether pre-nuptial chastity was required or not. It had a very significant effect either way.

    Highest flourishing of culture: The most powerful combination was pre-nuptial chastity coupled with “absolute monogamy”. Rationalist cultures that retained this combination for at least three generations exceeded all other cultures in every area, including literature, art, science, furniture, architecture, engineering, and agriculture. Only three out of the eighty-six cultures studied ever attained this level.

    Effect of abandoning prenuptial chastity: When strict prenuptial chastity was no longer the norm, absolute monogamy, deism, and rational thinking also disappeared within three generations.

    Total sexual freedom: If total sexual freedom was embraced by a culture, that culture collapsed within three generations to the lowest state of flourishing — which Unwin describes as “inert” and at a “dead level of conception” and is characterized by people who have little interest in much else other than their own wants and needs. At this level, the culture is usually conquered or taken over by another culture with greater social energy.

    Time lag: If there is a change in sexual constraints, either increased or decreased restraints, the full effect of that change is not realized until the third generation. (Note: I’ve added a clarifying footnote at the end of this article. See footnote #13)


    Read rest here: https://frjohnpeck.com/why-sexual-mo...-ever-thought/
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    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  3. #2
    ....

    Unwin found that when strict prenuptial chastity was abandoned, absolute monogamy, deism, and rational thinking disappeared within three generations of the change in sexual freedom. So how are we doing as we enter the second generation since our own sexual revolution at the end of the 20th century?

    As predicted, absolute monogamy has already been replaced with modified monogamy. Common-law relationships are becoming the norm. Although divorce occurred prior to the 1970’s, the mainstream of our culture still maintained the view that marriage should be for life, and common-law relationships were regarded with some distaste. That has clearly changed. Those who actually practice life-long commitments in marriage have become the minority, with couples born prior to the sexual revolution much more likely to maintain a life-long commitment in marriage.

    Deism is already rapidly declining, exactly as predicted. Prior to the 1960’s, a combination of rationalism and a belief in God was the norm for mainstream culture. Not only has belief in God greatly decreased since the 1960’s, but there has been a trend to remove the concept of God from government, the educational system, and the public forum. Those who still believe in God sense a strong societal pressure to keep deistic beliefs private. In its place, is a surprising rise in superstition,[7] classified by Unwin as a “monistic” culture, two levels down from the rationalist culture we had prior to the sexual revolution. There has also been a huge increase in the percentage of the population that classifies itself as non-religious, a symptom of the lowest, “zoistic” level of Unwin’s categories.[8]

    The swiftness with which rational thinking declined after the 1970’s is astounding. In its place arose post-modernism, characterized by “scepticism, subjectivism, or relativism” and “a general suspicion of reason”.[9] But it gets worse … post-modernism is giving way to “post truth”. In direct contrast to rational thinking, a post-truth culture abandons “shared objective standards for truth” and instead, stands on appeals to feelings and emotions, and what one wants to believe.[10] People can now “identify” themselves as something which flat-out contradicts science and rational thinking and, in many cases, receive the full support and backing of governments and educational systems. Not only do people feel they have a right to believe what they want, but any challenge to that belief, even if supported by truth and logic, is unacceptable and offensive. Here is a quote from Unwin that has become particularly a propos in the last couple decades since our own sexual revolution …
    Last edited by TER; 12-09-2019 at 02:49 AM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  4. #3
    All good is connected and sexual morality vs. immorality is far more powerful than many understand.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    r/K theory is real.

    http://anonymousconservative.com/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Some objections:

    1. The decline of Western civilization began long before the sexual revolution of the 60s (or the less well known one of the 20s). The trend with which libertarians should be concerned (ever growing state power) has been in place since the late 18th or early 19th century. The bra-burning was theatrical but unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Sexual depravity is generally a symptom, not a cause, of social decline. For example, during times of extreme crisis in the medieval period in Europe, such as in the wake of the plague, heretical "sexual revolutionaries" often popped up. If you ever saw the film "The Road," about a post-apocalyptic world, you'll recall the line about "fires in the hills and strange chanting." That's just a film, of course, but it reflects a fairly universal human tendency. You might call it the "smoke em while you got em" reflex. Go to any great gallery of medieval paintings and look for the ones depicting orgies (over which various gargoyles and such may be hovering). You'll find they coincide with disasters.

    2. Any conclusions about the sexual habits of pre-modern societies are at risk of mistaking theory for practice. The Victorians did not, believe it or not, follow the sexual habits of Victorian ideology. The ruling class entirely ignored the sermonizing from the little old lady at Windsor castle, except in public, when they put on a show for the sake of respectability. Meanwhile, the commoners pretended to care, while otherwise going about their debaucherous business. Queen Victoria's own eldest son, Bertie, of the Marlborough fast set, future King Edward VII, was a notorious womanizer.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Some objections:

    1. The decline of Western civilization began long before the sexual revolution of the 60s (or the less well known one of the 20s). The trend with which libertarians should be concerned (ever growing state power) has been in place since the late 18th or early 19th century. The bra-burning was theatrical but unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Sexual depravity is generally a symptom, not a cause, of social decline. For example, during times of extreme crisis in the medieval period in Europe, such as in the wake of the plague, heretical "sexual revolutionaries" often popped up. If you ever saw the film "The Road," about a post-apocalyptic world, you'll recall the line about "fires in the hills and strange chanting." That's just a film, of course, but it reflects a fairly universal human tendency. You might call it the "smoke em while you got em" reflex. Go to any great gallery of medieval paintings and look for the ones depicting orgies (over which various gargoyles and such may be hovering). You'll find they coincide with disasters.

    2. Any conclusions about the sexual habits of pre-modern societies are at risk of mistaking theory for practice. The Victorians did not, believe it or not, follow the sexual habits of Victorian ideology. The ruling class entirely ignored the sermonizing from the little old lady at Windsor castle, except in public, when they put on a show for the sake of respectability. Meanwhile, the commoners pretended to care, while otherwise going about their debaucherous business. Queen Victoria's own eldest son, Bertie, of the Marlborough fast set, future King Edward VII, was a notorious womanizer.
    There are many different facets of decline and a decline can start with any of them and while it is true that past generations were not composed entirely of saints it is also incontestable that far more people behaved far more in line with morality in the past when our culture was rising instead of falling.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Maintaining the highest standard of sexual morality would lead to wiping out STDs and eliminating any reason to abort a child.
    ďWhen plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies itĒ~~ Frederic Bastiat

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are many different facets of decline and a decline can start with any of them and while it is true that past generations were not composed entirely of saints it is also incontestable that far more people behaved far more in line with morality in the past when our culture was rising instead of falling.
    I see no evidence for that. The reason that the modern world appears uniquely degenerate is not that it actually is (or at least not to a significant degree), but that technological and economic changes have made popular culture massively more visible. If there had been reality TV in the 15th century, we'd be shocked and appalled: or maybe not shocked, since it would look a lot like 21st century reality TV (but with witches).
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I see no evidence for that. The reason that the modern world appears uniquely degenerate is not that it actually is (or at least not to a significant degree), but that technological and economic changes have made popular culture massively more visible. If there had been reality TV in the 15th century, we'd be shocked and appalled: or maybe not shocked, since it would look a lot like 21st century reality TV (but with witches).
    You picked another low point for comparison, morality goes up and down over the course of history.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You picked another low point for comparison, morality goes up and down over the course of history.
    If you mean the 15th century, I chose that entirely at random.

    I could just as well have said the 5th (on either side of Christmas), or any other.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  13. #11
    Per registered decision, member has been banned for violating community standards as interpreted by TheTexan (respect his authoritah) as authorized by Brian4Liberty Ruling

    May God have mercy on his atheist, police-hating, non-voting, anarchist soul.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 12-12-2019 at 07:44 PM.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish

  14. #12
    Impulse control.

    Poor impulse control, whether in the blood, or a cultural phenomenon, is the hallmark of dying society.

    Forward thinking and planning for the future encourages impulse control.

    Convince a society that there is no future, either in the real sense or spiritual sense, and you remove any need for or sense of impulse control.

    A people then devolve into monsters, madmen and animals, controlled and whipsawed about by lusts, passions and emotions.

  15. #13
    Even if we assume everything in the OP is true, the fact remains that people are free to march themselves to ruin.

    That said, I take deep issue with these findings as it cannot be trusted that they don't derive from even highly tacit assumptions based in old world perversions of truer human virtues.

  16. #14
    I don't know about sexual morality, but the prevalent type of sexual relationship within a human society has vast consequences that impose themselves, to some degree, on just about every other facet of society. Humans are primates and the behavior of all primate species is determined first by resources and then by reproduction. Monogamous primates have the lowest levels of within and between group competition. Among humans this would free up more resources for other endeavors.

    I guess my point is that analyzing OP's implied question through primate behavioral ecology tends to generate similar answers, which is obviously more complex than the tidbit above.

    American society is being turned into some kind of $#@!ed up Orangutan thing. One male services the reproductive needs of multiple females, who are not connected to each other by any kind of appreciable social bonds. Such groupings result in the highest levels of sexual dimorphism, as well as the highest and most vicious level of within group competition (among males, anyways).
    Last edited by bv3; 01-02-2020 at 08:43 PM.

  17. #15
    It comes down to honesty.

    If you promise to commit. Keep your promise.

    If you're not entirely committed, be upfront about it.

    If you don't love that person anymore, tell them so.

    A society that practices dishonest sexual relationships, most likely practices dishonesty in all relationships. It's less about sex and more about trust.



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