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Thread: Trump calls for review of water efficiency standards

  1. #1

    Trump calls for review of water efficiency standards

    President Trump on Friday said the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is reviewing water efficiency standards, claiming that some people flush the toilet “10 times, 15 times” due to a lack of water pressure.
    “We have a situation where we’re looking very strongly at sinks and showers, and other elements of bathrooms,” Trump said during a small business roundtable at the White House. “You turn the faucet on … and you don’t get any water. They take a shower and water comes dripping out.”
    He added that “people are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times, as opposed to once. They end up using more water. So EPA is looking at that.”
    TRUMP wants to deregulate water systems: "We have a situation where we're looking very strongly at sinks & showers...where you turn the faucet on [&] you don't get any water. They take a shower & water comes dripping out...We are looking very seriously at opening up the standard" pic.twitter.com/VZpD1jXiND
    — Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) December 6, 2019
    Trump also noted other bathroom fixtures have slowed water to a trickle.

    “You can’t wash your hands practically, there’s so little water comes out of the faucet, and the end result is you leave the faucet on and it takes you much longer to wash your hands, you end up using the same amount of water,” Trump said.

    More at: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...-saying-people
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

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    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    The toilet water standards were set in 1994 and sure a few did suck initially, since then it really isn't a problem. If you have to flush more than once you have a horrible fixture. I've worked in plumbing, a ~$150 toilet will flush just fine.

    Some of the shower heads with 'water savers' can be annoying, those are mostly on the very cheap shower heads. Most of the time it's a simple O ring you can remove and it's full flow once again. Although most of the time people never clean an aerator in their life and have scale build up, install a water conditioner or soak things in vinegar when needed and it's not a problem.

    Now tell me, who in the world is bitching about these water standards decades later? It's a non issue.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  4. #3
    Rand Paul was the one complaining about it years ago, he was telling Congress about toilets that don't flush and lightbulbs that don't work.

  5. #4
    I have a modern toilet and just 3 days ago I flushed 8 times before even using paper, then had to plunge, and as a result ended up doing laundry for at least another 10 gallons of water, not to mention the mopping and the shower.
    And that was without using paper.
    I am 5'10 and 189.
    I'm not saying this never happened with the old toilets. I am saying that with the old ones it would be a yearly event and down entirely to someone trying to flush a half a roll of paper at once.
    The new ones have all had plungers or snakes right next to them since the day they got installed. Before that the plunger or snake was something we knew existed and there was always a wild goose chase to get it found.

    Listen, I think Trump is an idiot, I am a committed anarchist who hasn't voted in a long time, and even though Trump is the current king of gun control, I WILL GET OUT AND VOTE FOR HIM IF HE LETS ME GET A REAL TOILET.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  6. #5
    Also, I have lived like this, for 22 of the last 25 years, living right next to a major tributary of the Potomac where just the excess that doesnt go through the water treatment plant makes for about 8700 cubic feet per second. So this whole thing was to solve an imaginary problem.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  7. #6
    About $#@!ing time...Good for Trump.

    Let's use this as a teaching moment as well:

    Where in the hell does the FedGov have the authority to regulate how much, of my own damn water, I can use to flush a turd?

    Where do the have the authority to regulate how much of my own damn gasoline my truck uses?

    Or a million other fatwas?

  8. #7
    Not a Federal issue. It is a local issue though, where water shortages and droughts are a problem.

    Unfortunately, it might be a burden on manufacturers to have to cater to all kinds of different regional and local laws. No easy answer. In general, the less laws and water police, the better.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    One and done on my toilet. Claims you can flush a bucket of golf balls in one shot (haven't tried it). If you are in the market for a new one, look at the dimension of the outflow pipe. Bigger is better. And it is a low water use toilet.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-07-2019 at 11:25 AM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    One and done on my toilet. Claims you can flush a bucket of golf balls in one shot (haven't tried it). If you are in the market for a new one, look at the dimension of the outflow pipe. Bigger is better. And it is a low water use toilet.
    We don't go in golf ball sizes. Awhile ago some university or a plumbing trade mag, I forget which, went about and determined the average size of waste, and made some soy product to replicate the properties. Then they used that to test all the brands and styles of water closets out there. The best at that time was Toto. They also have some of the cheapest fixtures out there. Good quality, good price, works fine.

    Although Toto also has some of the most expensive which I actually want to give a try. Their pricier models have bidet functions built in that they measured hundreds of their employees to get the water spray just right. Some poor engineer having to measure hundreds of employee's bums to find the best water location makes me glad I didn't have that job. I've also never used a $4000 toilet before, while Kohler can be pricey I haven't used one that pricey. Some fine restaurants in NYC are listed on Toto's official website as a trial location which is some of the oddest marketing I've seen.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  12. #10
    Some of those old water closets were beautiful, but now with the mandate that they can't be reused (sold) to anybody when they are retired, they are all going to be gone.

  13. #11
    The thing that has always bothered me about city water is that the same water that washes the dishes, clothes and used for bathing and drinking is used to flush the toilet. I think it would be so much better is the water that is used to flush the toilet was separate from the water used for consuming

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    We don't go in golf ball sizes. Awhile ago some university or a plumbing trade mag, I forget which, went about and determined the average size of waste, and made some soy product to replicate the properties. Then they used that to test all the brands and styles of water closets out there. The best at that time was Toto. They also have some of the cheapest fixtures out there. Good quality, good price, works fine.

    Although Toto also has some of the most expensive which I actually want to give a try. Their pricier models have bidet functions built in that they measured hundreds of their employees to get the water spray just right. Some poor engineer having to measure hundreds of employee's bums to find the best water location makes me glad I didn't have that job. I've also never used a $4000 toilet before, while Kohler can be pricey I haven't used one that pricey. Some fine restaurants in NYC are listed on Toto's official website as a trial location which is some of the oddest marketing I've seen.
    Yes but this completely misses the point -

    This
    was
    a
    solved
    problem.

    For a long, long time, it was a solved problem.
    And here we are, 25 years after they made it so you can't just go by any random toilet and expect it to do the thing that is its sole reason for existing.
    You guys always swoop in here with "But just buy this one that underwent extensive testing and it works ok".

    NOT. THE. POINT.

    The point is I shouldn't have to read consumer reports. It's like if all of the sudden the federal government INTENTIONALLY made it so 25% of the time your TV didn't turn on, and then 25 years later people still showed up to shill for that decision by saying "oh just buy a Samsung".

    Do you guys seriously not understand how you sound to us?

    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  15. #13
    It's interesting to see who doesn't really care about reducing government intervention and who does.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    The thing that has always bothered me about city water is that the same water that washes the dishes, clothes and used for bathing and drinking is used to flush the toilet. I think it would be so much better is the water that is used to flush the toilet was separate from the water used for consuming
    Unless you are using rain water, you are using some water which probably came from somebody's toilet. It does get cleaned and processed before being sent down to the next town who will again process it before sending it to your house.

  17. #15
    Every once in a while I need an extra flush to get it down but than again I empty my tank every 5+ days. This is one deregulation that is of very low priority to me.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post

    Listen, I think Trump is an idiot, I am a committed anarchist who hasn't voted in a long time, and even though Trump is the current king of gun control, I WILL GET OUT AND VOTE FOR HIM IF HE LETS ME GET A REAL TOILET.

    That is some statement..


    But if he kept sending more troops to globalist intervention zones and allowed Deep Neocons to push US into another war, then imo we should be prepared to make some toilet efficiency sacrifices for the greater good and cause of liberty and all GOPA wing funded puppets should be voted out of office.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    That is some statement..


    But if he kept sending more troops to globalist intervention zones and allowed Deep Neocons to push US into another war, then imo we should be prepared to make some toilet efficiency sacrifices for the greater good and cause of liberty and all GOPA wing funded puppets should be voted out of office.
    So far there have been no new wars in spite of multiple attempts to get him to start one.

    Trump is the least of all possible goods and he is only getting better.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So far there have been no new wars in spite of multiple attempts to get him to start one.

    Trump is the least of all possible goods and he is only getting better.
    He does have more troops and bombs in the old wars though. He did get us involved in Yemen when we weren't. True he didn't start that war but he was the one who got the US involved. Record drone strikes. Dropped Mother of All Bombs on Afghanistan.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-07-2019 at 09:14 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    That is some statement..


    But if he kept sending more troops to globalist intervention zones and allowed Deep Neocons to push US into another war, then imo we should be prepared to make some toilet efficiency sacrifices for the greater good and cause of liberty and all GOPA wing funded puppets should be voted out of office.
    Ok first, to belabour the point further, I am not going to allow you or anyone else to further the efficiency narrative here.

    If your car gets 50mpg when it runs, but every tenth time you start it it dumps 10 gallons of gas on the ground and forces you to do 10 minutes of maintenance to get it to the point where it can be used again, that is not efficiency.

    If you have an employee who outperforms everyone else by 25 percent but one day a week he gets fall-down drunk and wont get out of bed until you show up and personally cook him an egg breakfast, that is not efficiency.

    We are 25 years in here, the jury is back, and there is no argument that supports the idea that this is about efficiency that doesn't make the arguer an idiot.

    If this was purely about water efficiency then we would have been required to compost our waste. If it was supposed to be a balance of efficiency and dignity then we would have had a tax break like they have for solar, or they would have incentivized dual flush systems.

    No, it was and is about control. It is about telling every man, woman, and child living here that they are not allowed to have an inexpensive option to completely remove their own feces from their homes.

    In a world where everyone hears that and simply shrugs off being disallowed basic $#@!ing sanitation, what the hell makes you think there's a possibility they're gonna say boo to the wars?

    They successfully convinced everyone that they either have to live with $#@! stains on their bowl or they have to clean their toilets four times more than necessary. If nobody will fight back on that, then we have officially always been at war with Eurasia.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Ok first, to belabour the point further, I am not going to allow you or anyone else to further the efficiency narrative here.

    If your car gets 50mpg when it runs, but every tenth time you start it it dumps 10 gallons of gas on the ground and forces you to do 10 minutes of maintenance to get it to the point where it can be used again, that is not efficiency.

    If you have an employee who outperforms everyone else by 25 percent but one day a week he gets fall-down drunk and wont get out of bed until you show up and personally cook him an egg breakfast, that is not efficiency.

    We are 25 years in here, the jury is back, and there is no argument that supports the idea that this is about efficiency that doesn't make the arguer an idiot.

    If this was purely about water efficiency then we would have been required to compost our waste. If it was supposed to be a balance of efficiency and dignity then we would have had a tax break like they have for solar, or they would have incentivized dual flush systems.

    No, it was and is about control. It is about telling every man, woman, and child living here that they are not allowed to have an inexpensive option to completely remove their own feces from their homes.

    In a world where everyone hears that and simply shrugs off being disallowed basic $#@!ing sanitation, what the hell makes you think there's a possibility they're gonna say boo to the wars?

    They successfully convinced everyone that they either have to live with $#@! stains on their bowl or they have to clean their toilets four times more than necessary. If nobody will fight back on that, then we have officially always been at war with Eurasia.
    Well said.


    So far there are no better options, only much worse options.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Well said.


    So far there are no better options, only much worse options.

  25. #22
    I was kinda goofing around LOL +rep to fisharmor for an elaborate argument.

    To be very serious and clear, I oppose interventions in domestic toilet functions as well as foreign freedom spread interventions.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I don't think an outhouse can hold the office of President.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't think an outhouse can hold the office of President.
    Maybe if you put one of these in it?




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  29. #25
    I, for one, am glad that Trump has taken care of all the various major problems in the United States since 2016 and now all that's left for him to do in this term is tidy up a few old regulations on toilets and what-not. What a great feeling!

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Yes but this completely misses the point -

    This
    was
    a
    solved
    problem.

    For a long, long time, it was a solved problem.
    And here we are, 25 years after they made it so you can't just go by any random toilet and expect it to do the thing that is its sole reason for existing.
    You guys always swoop in here with "But just buy this one that underwent extensive testing and it works ok".

    NOT. THE. POINT.

    The point is I shouldn't have to read consumer reports. It's like if all of the sudden the federal government INTENTIONALLY made it so 25% of the time your TV didn't turn on, and then 25 years later people still showed up to shill for that decision by saying "oh just buy a Samsung".

    Do you guys seriously not understand how you sound to us?

    You are absolutely right, this is a long time solved issue. You don't need the best rated flushing one, go and buy anything from a lowes, home depot, ace hardware, etc and it will be fine. The absolute last thing any hardware store wants is someone returning a fixture because it doesn't work. Yes some are rated better yet we're not talking 15 flushes compared to 1 flush, they'll all be 1 flush. While I understand where you're coming concerning regulations, from a functionality issue this is not a problem.

    Talking about a more limited government approach and how regulations affect nearly everything in our life is one thing, making totally asinine statements about 15 flushes should be pointed out for being entirely stupid. That is even beyond hyperbole. I know nothing new with this pres.

    Although the free market appears to be at work in this industry. More water efficient using fixtures are becoming more common, those that offer dual flush buttons based on what you did instead of a 1 flush for all. Of course as this is mandated in other countries it could be the manufacturers are giving options, trying to standardize globally, or simply trying to upsell a feature. No water urinals are a thing also.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  31. #27
    Human waste should be composted.

    If human waste is to be flushed, houses could easily have gray water holding tanks that fill from showers and drains and gray water used to flush toilets and other purposes. Toilet waste could then be flushed into an onsite septic or to the city sewer. More water goes down the drain from the sinks, showers, clothes washers, and dish washers than is needed to flush toilets.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    You are absolutely right, this is a long time solved issue. You don't need the best rated flushing one, go and buy anything from a lowes, home depot, ace hardware, etc and it will be fine. The absolute last thing any hardware store wants is someone returning a fixture because it doesn't work. Yes some are rated better yet we're not talking 15 flushes compared to 1 flush, they'll all be 1 flush. While I understand where you're coming concerning regulations, from a functionality issue this is not a problem.
    You've never once deposited something a low-flow toilet couldn't handle with one flush? Never once?

    How many of you do you suppose there are? About seven?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  33. #29
    Water is our most precious resource. Bad habits, supply, convenience and probably other factors lead to its waste. People take long showers with the water running constantly. When at the kitchen sink, the water is constantly going down the drain. People throw dirty dishes in the sink and soak them. If a person takes their dirty dish and wipes it out as soon as they are done eating, the dish looks clean. If the same dish is left with food remnants to dry and harden the debris is much harder to get off. Dishes should be pre-washed. Take a dish pan or big pot or mixing bowl, put a small amount of water in it, get a stainless steel scratch pad and clean the debris off the dishes without any extra water. Stack those dishes in an orderly fashion on the side of the sink. Discard the water. Take the container rinse it, put in new water with soap. Wash all the dishes and stack the soapy un-rinsed dishes. When done washing all dishes rinse all dishes using a dishpan. Save the rinse water and use for something else. Get coffee cups and drinking glasses that only one person uses. There is no need for the same person to use 15 different glasses to drink water throughout the day. Get a pitcher of water and fill it up. Put the pitcher in the refrigerator instead of running water down the drain for extended periods of time waiting for the water to get cold. Use cold water to wash your hands instead of wasting gallons of water waiting for hot water to get from your tank to the upper floor faucet. Turn off the water while soaping up when in the shower.........When you don't have water or you have very limited supply and getting more is problematic, you will not use it to flush your $#@!.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Water is our most precious resource. Bad habits, supply, convenience and probably other factors lead to its waste.
    Because once water gets dirty, it's lost forever.

    Why not tell us to avoid bringing water to a rolling boil, as if once it's steam we'll never see it again?

    This isn't about water. This is about sewer treatment plants. This is about being downstream from large cities. This is about government trying to make us feel guilty for living because government is having trouble doing what government insists only it can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

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