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Thread: Trump calls for review of water efficiency standards

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Because once water gets dirty, it's lost forever.

    Why not tell us to avoid bringing water to a rolling boil, as if once it's steam we'll never see it again?

    This isn't about water. This is about sewer treatment plants. This is about being downstream from large cities. This is about government trying to make us feel guilty for living because government is having trouble doing what government insists only it can do.
    Call it what you want. Our water management has been a total failure on all levels.



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  3. #32
    Recently I was in SC at a property I own and the well went dry. When I am there I stay in a camper. My sister was with me. We had no water. I took a 60 gallon plastic food grade container that I already had and put it on a trailer. I mounted a shallow well pump on top of it and drilled a hole in the lid. I hooked up a garden hose to it and connected to my camper. Sixty gallons lasted 2 people 3 days with showers and all needs. That is 10 gallons per person per day. Every three days had to connect trailer and drive to water source to fill barrel. When something is hard to acquire, you do not waste it. In the case of water, I do not waste it even when it freely flows from the tap. The world needs to treat water differently. Water is not a right. The latest season of Goliath on Amazon Prime is about water.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Call it what you want. Our water management has been a total failure on all levels.
    I'm not saying government is competent. Clearly it is not. I'm saying about the only way to make water disappear is to apply electrical energy, and separate the hydrogen and oxygen. And even then you have to combine the hydrogen with something else pretty quickly, or it'll just oxidize and you'll have water again.

    Cities have a NIMBY problem with dumping their sewage out to evaporate, instead of sending it downstream. Yes, using clean water sensibly alleviates that. But pretending water ever gets "used up", as if it isn't one of the most stable and durable substances on the planet, is just aiding and abetting abuse like the EPA declaring every farm pond and rain puddle a Federal Water Resource and stripping us of property rights.

    Is clean water important? Yes. Do we need to foul three and a half gallons of clean water every time we take a whiz? No. Is that a waste? Yes, though it's actually a waste of energy and fluoride, and other things water treatment plants use, not water itself.

    Is the language we use to talk about this important? Only if we want to solve problems, as opposed to inviting the federal government to use water as an excuse to install tyranny.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-08-2019 at 07:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I'm not saying government is competent. Clearly it is not. I'm saying about the only way to make water disappear is to apply electrical energy, and separate the hydrogen and oxygen. And even then you have to combine the hydrogen with something else pretty quickly, or it'll just oxidize and you'll have water again.

    Cities have a NIMBY problem with dumping their sewage out to evaporate, instead of sending it downstream. Yes, using clean water sensibly alleviates that. But pretending water ever gets "used up", as if it isn't one of the most stable and durable substances on the planet, is just aiding and abetting abuse like the EPA declaring every farm pond and rain puddle a Federal Water Resource and stripping us of property rights.
    I believe in individual property rights. Get the government out. Let people extract their drinking water from any mud puddle they wish of purchase it from any supplier. For something as plentiful as water, when you need it and don't have it, you will wish you did.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I'm not saying government is competent. Clearly it is not. I'm saying about the only way to make water disappear is to apply electrical energy, and separate the hydrogen and oxygen. And even then you have to combine the hydrogen with something else pretty quickly, or it'll just oxidize and you'll have water again.

    Cities have a NIMBY problem with dumping their sewage out to evaporate, instead of sending it downstream. Yes, using clean water sensibly alleviates that. But pretending water ever gets "used up", as if it isn't one of the most stable and durable substances on the planet, is just aiding and abetting abuse like the EPA declaring every farm pond and rain puddle a Federal Water Resource and stripping us of property rights.

    Is clean water important? Yes. Do we need to foul three and a half gallons of clean water every time we take a whiz? No. Is that a waste? Yes, though it's actually a waste of energy and fluoride, and other things water treatment plants use, not water itself.

    Is the language we use to talk about this important? Only if we want to solve problems, as opposed to inviting the federal government to use water as an excuse to install tyranny.
    It seems like every person should have some high tech device that just extracts all their water needs from the air. No need for water pipes or lakes, reservoirs, of wells.

  8. #36
    If people want the government to provide water to them, they should go pick it up in containers. Forget about water pipes from the city. Truck water in like they do oil and charge by the gallon. So long as it is so abundant and easy to abuse no one will treat it with respect.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    If people want the government to provide water to them, they should go pick it up in containers.
    Because driving jugs around in a million sedans is just so much more energy efficient than running one pump.

    We just went from dirty water to dirty air. Yay?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Because driving jugs around in a million sedans is just so much more energy efficient than running one pump.

    We just went from dirty water to dirty air. Yay?
    Okay point well taken. But, there is no appreciation for water. Water must be undervalued.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Unless you are using rain water, you are using some water which probably came from somebody's toilet. It does get cleaned and processed before being sent down to the next town who will again process it before sending it to your house.
    If you say so zip but I do have a 500 foot deep well drilled thru a quartz bed and a whole house filter and another filter for drinking and cooking and there is no bottled or city water that taste as good to me. I have it tested every year and it always is good.

    For some reason when I turn on a tap in the city I can smell the chlorine and even a sewer smell. people get used to the smell but I can't stand it. Even when I did live in the city I never drank the water out of the tap and even back then I had a whole house filter that I changed the 1st stage cartridge every week and I could still smell it.

  12. #40


    CNN is ridiculous
    Last edited by Sammy; 12-08-2019 at 11:28 AM.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    If you say so zip but I do have a 500 foot deep well drilled thru a quartz bed
    Zippy's not here, so I'll cover for him and blather at you in his place.

    Yes, your water has flowed to the sea, diluting it, and evaporated, distilling it, and flowed down through the earth, filtering it, since then. But odds are some of it still passed through somebody's toilet in the last century. So no matter how much cleaner your well water is than what you get out of the galvanized pipe of some downstream city, dwellers in that city should sit down and shut up because even your distilled and filtered water used to be toilet water.

    Did I get that right, Zippy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Zippy's not here, so I'll cover for him and blather at you in his place.

    Yes, your water has flowed to the sea, diluting it, and evaporated, distilling it, and flowed down through the earth, filtering it, since then. But odds are some of it still passed through somebody's toilet in the last century. So no matter how much cleaner your well water is than what you get out of the galvanized pipe of some downstream city, dwellers in that city should sit down and shut up because even your distilled and filtered water used to be toilet water.

    Did I get that right, Zippy?
    :P I still think it would be a good thing if toilet water was separated from other water. The whole country would likely end up being healthier although I understand that the optimal health of a community is not really a serious goal for most municipalities. Water is so important we can't live without it. I am very careful to conserve it and be thankful for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor
    Money you spend on your good health is worth double the money you spend on your bad health.

  16. #43


    And you may find yourself
    Living in a shotgun shack
    And you may find yourself
    In another part of the world
    And you may find yourself
    Behind the wheel of a large automobile
    And you may find yourself in a beautiful house
    With a beautiful wife
    And you may ask yourself, well
    How did I get here?
    Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
    Letting the days go by, water flowing underground
    Into the blue again after the money's gone
    Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground
    And you may ask yourself
    How do I work this?
    And you may ask yourself
    Where is that large automobile?
    And you may tell yourself
    This is not my beautiful house!
    And you may tell yourself
    This is not my beautiful wife!
    Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
    Letting the days go…
    Last edited by Schifference; 12-08-2019 at 11:42 AM.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You've never once deposited something a low-flow toilet couldn't handle with one flush? Never once?

    How many of you do you suppose there are? About seven?
    One bathroom I use has a 3.5 gallon kohler in it, that will need a plunger on occassion. Maybe one or two, not 10 or 15! That toilet is a color fixture to match the rest of the bath so until there is a remod it's not going anywhere. The fixture I use the most, a modern one, can't recall the last time I plunged. I guess that means I won't ever make a good politician as I'm not full of crap...
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Recently I was in SC at a property I own and the well went dry. When I am there I stay in a camper. My sister was with me. We had no water. I took a 60 gallon plastic food grade container that I already had and put it on a trailer. I mounted a shallow well pump on top of it and drilled a hole in the lid. I hooked up a garden hose to it and connected to my camper. Sixty gallons lasted 2 people 3 days with showers and all needs. That is 10 gallons per person per day. Every three days had to connect trailer and drive to water source to fill barrel. When something is hard to acquire, you do not waste it. In the case of water, I do not waste it even when it freely flows from the tap. The world needs to treat water differently. Water is not a right. The latest season of Goliath on Amazon Prime is about water.
    10 gallons a day is very frugal. Tech news has occasionally talked about solar powered moisture harvesting of water, it's on my todo if I ever get serious about prepping. I'm in Michigan and even with our abundance, water is an issue. Nestle has a water bottling plant that the state allowed to increase from 250 gallons per minute to 400 gallons per minute even when the local government opposed it. Now the fight is on to try to limit Nestle from shipping larger containers of water out of state. Local wells around me have had to be drilled deeper due to water tables dropping due to farming. Shallow wells are no longer safe due to nitrates in the shallow waters from farming. I do think that we undervalue water when it is so readily available.

    Not that I want potential heavy handed approaches like water rights as they exist in the west but 'water wars' are going to become bigger problems and something to keep on eye on.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    10 gallons a day is very frugal. Tech news has occasionally talked about solar powered moisture harvesting of water, it's on my todo if I ever get serious about prepping. I'm in Michigan and even with our abundance, water is an issue. Nestle has a water bottling plant that the state allowed to increase from 250 gallons per minute to 400 gallons per minute even when the local government opposed it. Now the fight is on to try to limit Nestle from shipping larger containers of water out of state. Local wells around me have had to be drilled deeper due to water tables dropping due to farming. Shallow wells are no longer safe due to nitrates in the shallow waters from farming. I do think that we undervalue water when it is so readily available.

    Not that I want potential heavy handed approaches like water rights as they exist in the west but 'water wars' are going to become bigger problems and something to keep on eye on.
    I had a new well drilled when I was there. Hit 1.5 Gallons Per Minute at 330 feet got up to 2.5 GPM at 425 I ended up at 645 feet and 4 gallons per minute.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's interesting to see who doesn't really care about reducing government intervention and who does.
    This bears repeating.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy View Post


    CNN is ridiculous
    Talking $#@! on Rand, eh??

    Well that's exactly WHY Trump said 10 to 15 times. He exaggerates, but he always exaggerates in the correct direction. It gets the fake news talking about what Trump wants to talk about, even if it is them attempting to correct him on something.

    I guess they haven't figured that out yet.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's interesting to see who doesn't really care about reducing government intervention and who does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    This bears repeating.
    Why? Because you, as much as you're saying anything at all, seem to be acting judgmental and divisive as usual? Or because you're playing the cryptic attention whore, and nobody is trying to figure out what you're blathering about?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

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